Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

brownsfan019

Who Owns the Intellectual Work Here? ...

Who owns the intellectual work on TL?  

9 members have voted

  1. 1. Who owns the intellectual work on TL?

    • The site owner (James in this instance) owns any and all work done on his forum.
      4
    • The person writing the work owns it and it should be removed if the owner requests it.
      5


Recommended Posts

With the recent discussion regarding PivotProfiler and the sudden pulling of charts, I got to thinking - who actually OWNS the intellectual work being put on TL? This may be a better question for a lawyer, but just curious to hear James AND others thoughts on this topic...

 

2 schools of thought:

 

1) James runs the site and you post here freely. Once it's here, it's here to stay, regardless if you do.

 

2) You are providing a service to James and the forum; therefore, if you want YOUR work pulled for ANY reason, it should be pulled.

 

Two very different arguments there, each with their own merits.

 

What say you?

 

Feel free to post below and/or vote in the poll. Mods - let's try to keep this thread opened for awhile. Move to another part of the forum if need be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would never reproduce anyones work without prior notice, approval, and appropriate credit. However, I am against removing material already posted on the site. Content is king and the life of TL. It doesn't make any sense to post in the first place if the intention was to be removed later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that separates this site from many others is the free exchange of ideas and the utter helpfulness of same. It is unfortunate that PivotProfiler has pulled his contributions since it defeats the entire purpose of TL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Minetoo said:
The thing that separates this site from many others is the free exchange of ideas and the utter helpfulness of same. It is unfortunate that PivotProfiler has pulled his contributions since it defeats the entire purpose of TL.

 

I agree Minetoo, but the question is - if the owner of the work wants the work pulled, should it be pulled?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  brownsfan019 said:
I agree Minetoo, but the question is - if the owner of the work wants the work pulled, should it be pulled?

 

If for some legal reason it requires it pullled, I will comply. Otherwise, I prefer to simply remove the user from our system and which will change the username to guest or anonymous but keep the content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno about the legals either, but I assume the forum owner owns the work unless some other explicit arrangement has been made. From a practical point of view, once its posted its public. With regard to the events that have just happened my understanding is the technical means of pulling charts after the event no longer exist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am having difficulty with answering the poll because of the way options are phrased - ie 'ownership' may not be the pivotal issue. Here's why - the writer of content has the copyright (whether it's registered or not). However, once 'published', content can not 'unpublished' by an author. And, aside from commercial restraints, consumers of published content can use it as they please as long as the original work is credited properly.

 

Does anyone know why PivotProfiler wants his material pulled from TL? Planning to publish in a different format? Starting an advisory service? Interpersonal conflicts?

I know I would respect most reasons he has for wanting what he has published pulled (including if he's creating 'tests' for demand ;) :\ ) Open honest disclosure would probably bring acceptance from most other members as well. So PivotProfiler - what's really going on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I've voted for that the writer owns his ideas.

But it shouldn't be deleted on this site for ANY reasons.

 

We live in global world, we talk about trading. not ...

You know ...

 

But in some cases, if Soultrader should be confronted with a lawyer, if a writer should be confronted with a lawyer, the material posted, should be deleted.

Its just a pragmatic view.

 

Coming from a scientific world, a written idea, has is value. It may make the work of a becoming Ph.D. obsolete. Yada, yada, ...

 

The contents should stay here, that is only fair, but the idea, and the right to the idea should belong to the writer.

If the writer breaks laws, knowingly, or unknowingly, it has to be deleted.

 

 

Thats my honest view,

 

Hal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we should be asking two questions BF.

 

1. Who owns the work?

2. Who should own the work?

 

You have asked question 1, but I think your intention (please correct me if I am mistaken) is/was also to touch on question 2. I also think some of us have mixed our answers, letting thoughts about Q2 impinge on answers to Q1. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, the board is for discussion after all.

 

I think the answer to question 1 is to be found in the Terms of Use link at the bottom of each page, quote:

 

---------------------

3. Proprietary Rights

 

Unless otherwise indicated, copyright in all pages of this Web Site, including the design, layout, graphics and other design elements, and in the information and material contained in and on this Web Site, is owned by Traders Laboratory LLC.

----------------------

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoever is willing to respond:

 

3. Proprietary Rights

 

Unless otherwise indicated, copyright in all pages of this Web Site, including the design, layout, graphics and other design elements, and in the information and material contained in and on this Web Site, is owned by Traders Laboratory LLC.

 

 

What does this mean? :confused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  HAL9000 said:
Whoever is willing to respond:

 

3. Proprietary Rights

 

Unless otherwise indicated, copyright in all pages of this Web Site, including the design, layout, graphics and other design elements, and in the information and material contained in and on this Web Site, is owned by Traders Laboratory LLC.

 

 

What does this mean? :confused:

 

C'mon HAL - keep up! :haha:

 

I reckon it is pretty clear what it means - once it is posted the work is the property of TL ... I would imagine for specific postings alternative arrangements could be made beforehand if necessary.

 

Now, enforcement of this provision is another matter.

 

James operates this site with much goodwill (along with much blood, sweat and tears I imagine) , so the legals are only there as a last resort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I voted the poster owns the work. Its tough though because he annotated and did his thing, then he posts it on public space which James hosts and pays for.

 

It's sad because as others have said, this whole scenario goes against what TL stands for.

 

I actually want to re-vote or at least say this...there is no law stopping those of you that saved the charts as claiming them as your own if push comes to shove.

I really am wanting to know why he did that and what the hell going on. When you put something on cyberspace I feel you relinquish all rights to that content as it can end up anywhere in any hands. If you don't want others to have the work...don't ever post it publicly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mister Ed,

 

I've posted above what I would wish, and rule 3 allows it, because of the until stated otherwise.

 

Well, I'm sometimes cruel in writing, and actually I posted mine in parallel to yours, so I wasn't aware of your post.

 

While I also think that soultrader has no intention to place stones in front of us, I would still like to see the writer owns her/his information.

 

Now I have two ways to go, if I copycat things, you understand, I will use the shelter of TL, if I will post my own ideas, even if build on others ones ideas, but somehow new, I will have to post my copyright, and stay or fall with it.

 

If this sounds paranoid, it is.

 

I think the easiest and honest way still is, that everyone owns her/his ideas, and, as I said, if laws (wherever) were somehow violated (or are in question), the material will be deleted.

 

Well, just another thought, if every idea comes from an idea of someone else,

who ownes the idea?

My answer would be: No one.

But there are these damn laws.

 

One more, just that you can understand me, I'm using some GNU software, this is nice for me, because its free, but, just in case I would try to build up a business, I have to make some very special deals.

Anyway, I'm a trader, so probably this will never be the case.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal.

 

P.S.: BTW, BF, I'm searching for the link. It was a woman, but I need some more time, don't remember her name.

Edited by HAL9000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  brownsfan019 said:
Interesting responses here. Pretty much what I expected. Just curious to see what others thought.

 

I dunno if votes can be changed but I would switch mine up.

Sucks I voted before typing my thoughts and delving in.

 

Make it 5 to site and 3 to poster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  mcichocki_ said:
I dunno if votes can be changed but I would switch mine up.

Sucks I voted before typing my thoughts and delving in.

 

Make it 5 to site and 3 to poster.

 

Can you delete cookies or anything like that? How did Bush do it in Florida LOL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  mister ed said:
Can you delete cookies or anything like that? How did Bush do it in Florida LOL?

 

LMAO!

 

I don't have a politician brother to alter the polls and I'm not a politician, ahhhh what the hell I'm screwed.

 

Maybe make a 3rd option for "I'm wishy washy and will click on both if allowed".

Wait...so I am a politician then. Damn those PC answers I give. :angry:

:o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.