[VSA] Volume Spread Analysis Part II

[Tasuki 10]

Question for CW:

I'm trying to understand how/when/and why to use wide range candles as S/R and entry/exit points. Attached chart shows my utter lack of comprehension. Any help greatly appreciated.

Taz

[winnie 10]

Dear All,

In VSA, we know when market move up with ultra high volume and spread, it is a bearish signal and no volume up bar is also no good . Then, how to define a healthy up bar ? What kind of volume and spread do we need ?

 

Thanks

[kuky969 10]

Tasuki

maybe no clear answer but 2 cents

note WRB (down ,red) on the left about 9,10 am.. For me it is little zone of resistance and I noted in history that if is this zone is overcome other WRB (up,green) this WRB serve as support for next trading. Just little piece of my

observation.

[tawe trader 10]

In VSA, we know when market move up with ultra high volume and spread, it is a bearish signal and no volume up bar is also no good . Then, how to define a healthy up bar ? What kind of volume and spread do we need ?

 

For a bullish move we need to see steady rising volume on upbars, high volume but not excessive.

 

The following is from 'Charting the Stockmarket The Wyckoff Method' - P.175

 

During an advance, good quality or increasing demand will tend to keep the rally going. The price range for the day (bar) will be large and the close will be the high for the day (bar). The volume is greater on up days (bars) than the days (bars) where the market traded down.

 

Tawe

[CandleWhisperer 10]

Tasuki;

 

First, let's be clear. I am talking about WRBs (Wide Range Bodies) not Wide range candles. The distinction is two fold. one, since we are talking open to close (Body) we don't need candles. Two, there can be a WRB on a relatively small candle. For example, picture three equal range dojis in a row, the next candle has an equal range but a body of 3 ticks. By definition, that would be a WRB. Yet the range is no greater than the previous three candles.

 

The candle you highlight is a WRB.

 

As for when/which ones we should be using, this is a bit tricky. Actually it is not tricky at all, but there are some things I am bound not to mention as a client of a particular website.

 

What's not tricky is what we learn from VSA. VSA tells us that the BBs use news events to take, or add to, a position against the herd. VSA tells us that the BBs like to be active during Fed announcements. We know that jobs reports and other key economic event reports are "market moving" events that the BBs tend to use. Therefore, we can logically extract from VSA ALONE that a WRB constructed on a news event should be important. If there is not one on the release of the news, than the first one after the news should be looked at. Again, I stress that this is a logical conclusion from VSA and not proprietary information.

 

Therefore, the first question I asked myself when I looked at your chart, was: "was that WRB created by a news event?". A VSA trader not using WRB analysis or candles, would simply ask; "was that wide spread bar created by a news event?".

 

Clearly, high volume plays an important role in VSA. A WRB created on ultra high volume could be one worth paying attention to. For example, a dark (close< open) that closes down from the previous candle on ultra high volume with the next candle up. With that next candle trading even lower but closing above its midpoint. This is a clear sign that we are at some type of inflection area, and hence the body of the WRB will become the area to see the change in the Supply/Demand dynamics.

 

Sometimes there will be a low volume WRB that is the largest WRB that you see on your chart. This is likely to be an important WRB that could be used to judge the Supply/Demand dynamics.

 

The Gap Sandwich:

 

If you see a two WRBs with an actual price gap (hint) in-between, this is a good area to look for signs of strength or weakness. With this pattern, we do not care where we are. In other words, this pattern does not have to come at the top or bottom of a trend.

[winnie 10]

Dear All,

I have one problem using VSA. When I see an uptrend and then I wait for no supply bar to enter. However, during the uptrend , it sometimes has some up bar with low volume(like a no demand bar) or ultra high volume , this usually a weakness signal, should I still wait for the no supply bar to enter long ? I find that even there is weakness in background, the market can continue to go up a while before actually reverse.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinions

Winnie

[Eiger 10]

Winnie, It's hard to talk in abstracts. Can you post a chart of what you are taling about? That would help a lot. (I am away for several days. I will be glad to repsond later next week - but others can help you, I'm sure)

[winnie 10]

Please take look at the chart and give me some suggestion ?

 

thanks for your time

[Tasuki 10]

Looking at Winnie's chart, I just had an idea. I wonder if it would be possible to create an indicator or a strategy which would take into consideration both the volume AND the range at the same time. A high (or low) reading of this indicator might be able to highlight turning points, yes? Maybe?

[CandleWhisperer 10]

Looking at Winnie's chart, I just had an idea. I wonder if it would be possible to create an indicator or a strategy which would take into consideration both the volume AND the range at the same time. A high (or low) reading of this indicator might be able to highlight turning points, yes? Maybe?

 

Better Volume Radar.

 

Since I like to paint volume bi-color with blue for greater than the previous bar and red for less than or equal to the previous bar, I use better volume as a "Radar" line. See some of my charts with the dots above the candles.

 

Red (climatic action) means Highest high value of Range*Volume of the last 20 bars.

 

White means low churn (range vs. volume).

 

see emini-watch.com for more details. BTW if you see a red dot/bar and it is a WRB, then that would likely be a WRB to use for Supply/demand zone. Same with white.

 

**edit**

 

Just added another pic to show how Better Volume Radar can point to what WRBs to use. Note here how the low volume churn WRB is also the part a complex volatility pattern.

Edited October 18, 2008 by CandleWhisperer

[sevensa 10]

Looking at Winnie's chart, I just had an idea. I wonder if it would be possible to create an indicator or a strategy which would take into consideration both the volume AND the range at the same time. A high (or low) reading of this indicator might be able to highlight turning points, yes? Maybe?

 

Just checking that you realize you are on the thread you have concluded is all BS on the "crock or not" thread? You probably meant to post this in the indicators forum.

[Tasuki 10]

Tasuki;

 

 

As for when/which ones we should be using, this is a bit tricky. Actually it is not tricky at all, but there are some things I am bound not to mention as a client of a particular website.

 

.

 

 

Curiosity piqued: can you at least tell us the URL of the website? Perhaps other TL members would benefit from it?

Edited October 18, 2008 by Tasuki

[Tasuki 10]

Just checking that you realize you are on the thread you have concluded is all BS on the "crock or not" thread? You probably meant to post this in the indicators forum.

 

sevensa, Admittedly, I'm still struggling with this. VSA is so elegant, I would dearly love it to work, and I may yet understand it well enough that it will help my trading. My problem with VSA remains the same, namely that it all sounds so logical in hindsight, but I have yet to see a VSA "expert" who can use it in real-time without getting egg in his beard.

 

Darn good idea to re-post my query in the indicator section.

[CandleWhisperer 10]

Tasuki,

 

The owner of the site, who also posts here on TL as NihabaAshi, does not do business that way. That is, as he is not a sponsor of this forum, he does not mention his site in his posts (or signature line). Because he does not do this, I do not want to do it either. With that said, many people know what site I am talking about and if any non-client wants to post the site name and address, I hope they do.

[disperados-x 10]

Hello guys! This is selling climax in WSA (WRB)?

[jjthetrader 10]

My problem with VSA remains the same, namely that it all sounds so logical in hindsight, but I have yet to see a VSA "expert" who can use it in real-time without getting egg in his beard.

 

 

Have you ever seen ANYONE trade VSA at all? Please don't add doubts like that into people who are trying to learn to read the market using price and volume. VSA is a very viable way to trade and very profitable. Please keep your crock or not stuff over there.

[jjthetrader 10]

Please take look at the chart and give me some suggestion ?

 

thanks for your time

 

Winnie, the bar you marked as weakness isn't really weakness. Volume is just barely over your marked average. Some supply came in in that area but not enough to change the direction of the market. And the 'uptrust' isn't really an upthrust. Yes it's lack of buyers but where's the selling pressure or follow through? With volume like that it doesn't exist.

All rallies need to pull back. Check out the volume on your downbars. Both are lower than the previous two. Your original inclination of the no supply bar was correct and a perfect place to look for an entry.

[disperados-x 10]

sevensa, Admittedly, I'm still struggling with this. VSA is so elegant, I would dearly love it to work, and I may yet understand it well enough that it will help my trading. My problem with VSA remains the same, namely that it all sounds so logical in hindsight, but I have yet to see a VSA "expert" who can use it in real-time without getting egg in his beard.

 

Darn good idea to re-post my query in the indicator section.

 

 

Not to distress. VSA as any other way to trade subjective, and wins more lucky, this not saint grail and possible not the most best method (excuse me, i am, dont speak english)

[jjthetrader 10]

Not to distress. VSA as any other way to trade subjective, and wins more lucky, this not saint grail and possible not the most best method (excuse me, i am, dont speak english)

 

Another non-constructive post. This is not the thread for comments like that. It is for those who are interested in VSA to learn, not be discouraged. Go to the crock or not thread if this is your mindset.

[disperados-x 10]

Another non-constructive post. This is not the thread for comments like that. It is for those who are interested in VSA to learn, not be discouraged. Go to the crock or not thread if this is your mindset.

 

 

I expected such answer to my message. But there is opinion - "truth" will be born In dispute. And the main not to be a fanatic to ideas, since nearly all ideas carry the mistakes and subjectivity.

I not against VSA and WRB, but I also see their subjectivity, and not possibility to be a full truth, either as many other methods to trade.

Itself I study - VSA and WRB, Wycoff, tape reading - these methods main in my study. The A great deal I have studied on this forum, and for this thank you Traders labaratory. But I not fanatic them. And want to use them in less subjective side.

If the main participants this subject against critics, I shall not enter in dispute from respect to forum.

Edited October 19, 2008 by disperados-x

[disperados-x 10]

Apologize that wrote message not in necessary subject of the forum

[winnie 10]

Dear all,

If we find an wide spread dn bar with ultra high volume and next bar is an up bar with lower volume. We will suspect the dn bar has some demand in it, otherwise the next bar shold l be dn , am I correct ? If the trend is dn, should we buy or sell ? Usually , I find the next up bar after the ultra high volume dn bar is a no demand bar, this make me very confused . IF we combine this two bar(the ultra high volume dn bar and its next bar: a lower volume up bar) , it should has strength. However if we only take consider the lower volume up bar only , it is a no demand bar(should be a sell signal). What should I do ?

 

Thanks

[jjthetrader 10]

Dear all,

If we find an wide spread dn bar with ultra high volume and next bar is an up bar with lower volume. We will suspect the dn bar has some demand in it, otherwise the next bar shold l be dn , am I correct ? If the trend is dn, should we buy or sell ? Usually , I find the next up bar after the ultra high volume dn bar is a no demand bar, this make me very confused . IF we combine this two bar(the ultra high volume dn bar and its next bar: a lower volume up bar) , it should has strength. However if we only take consider the lower volume up bar only , it is a no demand bar(should be a sell signal). What should I do ?

 

Thanks

 

Winnie, it's the testing that goes on after climactic action, like you described, that gives you your answers. This big downbar could just be the beginning of support coming in. Price may still need to go lower. A test of this high volume would be your entry signal.

The 'no demand' you're speaking of often shows up in a reaction bounce after an event like you described. Professional money does not want to take price any further without a test. This isn't your best bet short either since we look for no demands after weakness has appeared and what you described is potential strength.

Hope that helps.

[CandleWhisperer 10]

Winnie, it's the testing that goes on after climactic action, like you described, that gives you your answers. This big downbar could just be the beginning of support coming in. Price may still need to go lower. A test of this high volume would be your entry signal.

The 'no demand' you're speaking of often shows up in a reaction bounce after an event like you described. Professional money does not want to take price any further without a test. This isn't your best bet short either since we look for no demands after weakness has appeared and what you described is potential strength.

Hope that helps.

 

 

This is why we have missed you JJ. Very nice. Thanks.

[Eiger 10]

... My problem with VSA remains the same, namely that it all sounds so logical in hindsight, but I have yet to see a VSA "expert" who can use it in real-time without getting egg in his beard ...

 

 

That is because you have been too lazy or unwilling to look, though not too lazy or unwilling to post an untrue comment like this. You seem to like to challenge a method without doing your homework. TG routinely has web casts that nearly always include live VSA trading. You can judge the consistency of the method live for yourself, if that somehow satisfies you, rather than posting BS to this thread. And, here is a direct challenge to you: watch the next three webcasts of live trading and report back to people on this forum what you see. Though I doubt you will do this, one thing i can guarantee you, no VSA expert wears a beard and none have egg on their face.

 

Eiger

 

Eiger

Edited October 21, 2008 by Eiger