The Right Coach/Mentor?

[MightyMouse 12]

Sir or Madam

 

If you take a moment to look the charts, and then simply ask yourself "what is the market doing" one assumes that you will eventually (depending on your skill level) come to the conclusion that we are in a volatile, news driven, down trending market. Although they don't like to acknowledge it, professional interests will use that basis to mark markets down to a level where they can buy inventory at distressed prices (prices at or below wholesale value). In order to do this they have to drive markets down. That has been done since the outbreak of the Mideast conflict and now in the wake of the Japan distaster it continues albeit at a slower pace, because the United States is considered to be insulated somewhat from the effects of that tragedy.

 

The charts tell the story of what has happened. Professionals will continue to drive it down until they see other institutions move in with size to buy at distressed prices. There are "tells" that can be used including open interest as well as daily and hourly volume. Those of us who do this for a living also have other tools at our disposal...

 

The original comment was simple. We continue to sell at every opportunity until the market proves us wrong and makes us pay up....That is "how" we look to be right until proven wrong...(the two charts above are examples).

 

And finally what "certifies" me is the level of my commentary and my knowledge of specific markets. There is plenty that I do not know, but the S&P is one market that I know very well. I think a person of average intelligence can tell whether an author knows what they are talking about...if you are skeptical, ignoring my commentary is your best course of action.

 

Good Luck

 

Thank you for providing insight to the average. it is helpful since the average and below average have difficulty looking at a chart and seeing where they should have gone short or should have gone long. Make no mistake. I am a student and eager to increase my averages. In the past I have struggled with grasping whether I should have sold at prices that were higher than the current price or bought at prices that are lower than the current. Thankfully, I am beginning to get a hang for the buy low and sell high thing.

 

The level of your commentary does in fact certify you. And I think we can all learn that to become or remain professional/institutional, we need to remain post facto otherwise our commentary will look, well, rather average and that would make it difficult to toot our horns on a thread about coaching and mentoring.

[zdo 20]

… pulling it back on topic

The very best ‘right coach/mentor’ will not tell you anything. Not a thing!

The very best ‘right coach/mentor’ will only ask you special questions you do not have immediate rational answers for.

Disappointed?

[steve46 12]

OK so I am a patient person within limits of course. Here is a reply to Mighty Mouse;

 

The first chart I posted showed an area where I was inclined to enter short postions. That chart was posted and notated a little after 2am PST....then about an hour LATER the market retraced up to the lower boundary of that notation (to the tick) where it reversed....

 

Sorry to have to point out that your comment was ass backward wrong...in public...but then you really should think before you post...then you won't have this problem...

 

Finally in an effort to bring this back to the topic...this is in part why skilled people are hesitant to teach....Certainly there are people who are willing to work, to do research and to think about the subject....and then there are those who really never should be involved, or who have emotional issues that prevent them from learning anything of value. Frankly the skilled participant ends up asking him/herself, "why do this when I can just trade and not have to put up with this crap...."

 

Good luck to those who are out there seriously looking for help

Edited March 14, 2011 by steve46

[MightyMouse 12]

OK so I am a patient person within limits of course. Here is a reply to Mighty Mouse;

 

The first chart I posted showed an area where I was inclined to enter short postions. That chart was posted and notated a little after 2am PST....then about an hour LATER the market retraced up to the lower boundary of that notation (to the tick) where it reversed....

 

Sorry to have to point out that your comment was ass backward wrong...in public...but then you really should think before you post...then you won't have this problem...

 

Finally in an effort to bring this back to the topic...this is in part why skilled people are hesitant to teach....Certainly there are people who are willing to work, to do research and to think about the subject....and then there are those who really never should be involved, or who have emotional issues that prevent them from learning anything of value. Frankly the skilled participant ends up asking him/herself, "why do this when I can just trade and not have to put up with this crap...."

 

Good luck to those who are out there seriously looking for help

 

Steve,

 

Like I said, I am trying to learn. I am not sure where my comment was ass backwards wrong. Your 2 am chart showed that I should sell high and buy low. isn't that the idea? And I do not mind the public lashing provided that I learn something in the mix. Trading is tough and as an average or below average person, I seek wisdom from the non-hesitant certified, skilled, institutional professionals and do hope that I in no way hinder your desire to pontificate. And thanks for taking your valuable time away from the institutional trading desk to respond to my incorrigible response.

 

MM

 

and I do appreciate you taking the time from your institutional trading des

[steve46 12]

Steve,

 

Like I said, I am trying to learn. I am not sure where my comment was ass backwards wrong. Your 2 am chart showed that I should sell high and buy low. isn't that the idea? And I do not mind the public lashing provided that I learn something in the mix. Trading is tough and as an average or below average person, I seek wisdom from the non-hesitant certified, skilled, institutional professionals and do hope that I in no way hinder your desire to pontificate. And thanks for taking your valuable time away from the institutional trading desk to respond to my incorrigible response.

 

MM

 

and I do appreciate you taking the time from your institutional trading des[/quote

 

You're not sure...I just made it clear....one chart posted at 2am, and price hits the setup at 3...to the tick.....

Keep on digging that hole, if nothing else you do have that talent to fall back on...

[MightyMouse 12]

Steve,

 

Like I said, I am trying to learn. I am not sure where my comment was ass backwards wrong. Your 2 am chart showed that I should sell high and buy low. isn't that the idea? And I do not mind the public lashing provided that I learn something in the mix. Trading is tough and as an average or below average person, I seek wisdom from the non-hesitant certified, skilled, institutional professionals and do hope that I in no way hinder your desire to pontificate. And thanks for taking your valuable time away from the institutional trading desk to respond to my incorrigible response.

 

MM

 

and I do appreciate you taking the time from your institutional trading des[/quote

 

You're not sure...I just made it clear....one chart posted at 2am, and price hits the setup at 3...to the tick.....

Keep on digging that hole, if nothing else you do have that talent to fall back on...

 

Ok I admit. you are good if not great. I aspire to be able to hit trades to the tick one day. But n the meantime i have to trudge along and be wrong more than I am right. Who knows I may never learn how to know what the market is going to do. I suppose a good lesson too is to self-certify and develop self importance and begin talking down to others so that they can aspire to be like me. I will need work on maintaining an air of arrogance, but I too will probably have difficulty hiding my true self.

[steve46 12]

So really you cannot control yourself....thats too bad, because this business requires emotional control....and when I see people who simply cannot control their impulses, I KNOW that they aren't making money....

 

So heres a comment directed toward those who actually want to learn something

 

Its not about being "good" or "great" and its not about hitting a trade "to the tick"....you can't count on that because the markets are a dynamic and noisy process...and humans are not perfect (obviously none of us are)...so what is the take away from this gentleman's comment?

 

Well if you look at those two charts, you can see that actually, price came up and into the setup area twice...once right after the Globex open, and then several hours later. One of the primary differences between amateurs and pros is the ability to tolerate the tension of holding a position knowing that it might stop you out on the other side of that setup area (I call it a supply demand "node")...Most amateurs can't take the physical tension that causes and they wimp out taking a loss prematurely, only to see price reverse (as it did in the first example) and turn into a nice profitable trade....even when a trade goes immediately in their favor, amateurs often succumb to the temptation of taking profits too soon (after a tick or two) and then they have to watch as that trade moves another 5 to 10 points without them. Learning to manage your emotions, your impulses, your fears and your personal demons is THE main thing that amateurs lack....and that a good mentor can teach...

 

Best of luck

[MightyMouse 12]

So really you cannot control yourself....thats too bad, because this business requires emotional control....and when I see people who simply cannot control their impulses, I KNOW that they aren't making money....

 

So heres a comment directed toward those who actually want to learn something

 

Its not about being "good" or "great" and its not about hitting a trade "to the tick"....you can't count on that because the markets are a dynamic and noisy process...and humans are not perfect (obviously none of us are)...so what is the take away from this gentleman's comment?

 

Well if you look at those two charts, you can see that actually, price came up and into the setup area twice...once right after the Globex open, and then several hours later. One of the primary differences between amateurs and pros is the ability to tolerate the tension of holding a position knowing that it might stop you out on the other side of that setup area (I call it a supply demand "node")...Most amateurs can't take the physical tension that causes and they wimp out taking a loss prematurely, only to see price reverse (as it did in the first example) and turn into a nice profitable trade....even when a trade goes immediately in their favor, amateurs often succumb to the temptation of taking profits too soon (after a tick or two) and then they have to watch as that trade moves another 5 to 10 points without them. Learning to manage your emotions, your impulses, your fears and your personal demons is THE main thing that amateurs lack....and that a good mentor can teach...

 

Best of luck

 

Wow, Steve, not only are you an professional/institutional trader who can call the market " to the tick", but you are also have ESP. Amazing how you can glean so much information from a few statements that I make. Quick! How many windows do I have in my office?

 

I cannot control myself because you simply do not get it. Your statements are plainly arrogant and condescending and disguised as you trying to be helpful. Do you really think that it is helpful for novice traders to bash them for being retail amateur traders? Notice how you never lose a trade or make a wrong call. Are these guys supposed to believe that is real? Real traders do take losing trades all the time and everyday.

 

Mon Ami, you buy support and sell resistance. Its not institutional grade and hardly rocket science.

 

Sorry for barging onto your game.

[steve46 12]

That being the case I suggest you ignore my comments......that should help to relieve the emotional distress you seem to be feeling....I will do the same...

 

Best of luck to you..

[steve46 12]

I don't want to cause any unecessary distress for anyone, but here is today's chart showing the Globex open....and just by coincidence I am sure...price moves up to test a supply/demand node created at the end of the regular trade session, where oops it gets hammered by shorts....

 

Again I am sure it is simply coincidence that this short trade occurred at the begining of the Globex session. In fact I suggest people simply ignore it....

[Mysticforex 13]

Thank you Steve. I have found your posts interesting as well as informative.

You mention earlier that it's not about calling it to the tick. I have found that my winners often exceed my target area. It used to bother me. "why didn't I see that?", if only I had stayed in I could have made 10, 25, 50 pips more. Now I am ok with it. The trade produced what I wanted, went according to plan. As for the profit I left on the table? Well, I can't lose what I never had.

[steve46 12]

Thank you Steve. I have found your posts interesting as well as informative.

You mention earlier that it's not about calling it to the tick. I have found that my winners often exceed my target area. It used to bother me. "why didn't I see that?", if only I had stayed in I could have made 10, 25, 50 pips more. Now I am ok with it. The trade produced what I wanted, went according to plan. As for the profit I left on the table? Well, I can't lose what I never had.

 

Hi Mystic, and thanks for the kind words. Your comment is also interesting and very pertinent to the subject at hand. At the end of the previous session, the S&P futures bumped up as though it were going to reverse....As I mentioned yesterday, professionals see this market as one with an "obvious bias" due mostly to the turmoil we see in Libya and Japan's tragic natural disaster. The tendency is for institutions to look to mark the market down at every opportunity, so that they can buy inventory at distressed prices. Yesterday at close of RTH, the S&P futures moved up as though to reverse the trend....then as I mentioned "coincidentally" someone hammered it down right after the open of the Globex market. I posted a chart showing the short entry off of the supply/demand node and here is the continuation chart, showing the 50 pt move south. I am like you in this respect, and would not have expected to catch this move entirely, but then even a few extra points would have made it a very nice day.

Edited March 15, 2011 by steve46

[zdo 20]

Since we’re insisting on staying barely on topic ---

Eric Berlow: How complexity leads to simplicity | Video on TED.com

 

A great mentor will tell you nothing...

[stpips89 10]

Here is a good article discussing whether or not trading can be taught.

[forexzak 10]

So, I am wondering, how does one find a coach? How do you even look for one? Do you look for one that you can see face to face, or someone you just talk to on the phone, or just in a chat room? I don't know where to start.

 

I am at the point, where I want to find someone who can help me set up my day trading system. I am trying to keep it simple as Brownsfan says, but I need to be able to speak to someone about the day to day things one does, when they do trading full time.

 

I am about to get the right capital to have a good chunk to trade with and for now I am looking to trade stocks strictly. I would be interested in futures and options, but I don't want to get an overload and want to learn those as I have perfected one thing at a time.

 

So, I am asking you guys, those who really jumped into this, as I am planning on, how do you find a coach, mentor, or whatever you may call that person who is going to help you day to day in the beginning.

 

I would appreciate the help. The education is tremendeous here, so I know I am asking the right people. If anyone would like to call me, if they have time for a chat, even a quick one, if they can help, please send me a PM and I will send you my cellphone number, as I wasn't sure if I should just advertise it for the world literally to see...hehehe.

 

Thanks,

Eva

 

Hi Eva

After a lot of scams and loosing money on various so called mentors, I found guys very professional and cost effective, I am now stick with them and very happy with their style of coaching as well as mentoring. You may try them as well.

 

Hope it helps

Zubair

[joshdance 10]

Hi Mystic, and thanks for the kind words. Your comment is also interesting and very pertinent to the subject at hand. At the end of the previous session, the S&P futures bumped up as though it were going to reverse....As I mentioned yesterday, professionals see this market as one with an "obvious bias" due mostly to the turmoil we see in Libya and Japan's tragic natural disaster. The tendency is for institutions to look to mark the market down at every opportunity, so that they can buy inventory at distressed prices. Yesterday at close of RTH, the S&P futures moved up as though to reverse the trend....then as I mentioned "coincidentally" someone hammered it down right after the open of the Globex market. I posted a chart showing the short entry off of the supply/demand node and here is the continuation chart, showing the 50 pt move south. I am like you in this respect, and would not have expected to catch this move entirely, but then even a few extra points would have made it a very nice day.

 

Your terminology and general methodology sounds very much like that of Sam Seiden, for example supply and demand nodes. Did you receive training from him or his group?

[Rainmaker626 10]

My only input is to say that before deciding on a mentor/coach, you have to do your best to know what you don't know. I know it sounds like a complicated phrase, but it's really not.. Since these mentors/coach charge a fee, you have to know what you are in search of in order to get the most for your money and time..

 

It's like going to a professor for extra help.. If you go there not having studied the topic, it's rather hard for you to maximize your time with him as you wont know what questions to ask or what's worth asking about...

 

So in essence, there are things that any trader can learn on their own and I'm of the firm belief that there are things that only experience and "successful" traders can teach..

 

Some people (through years of trading) pick up the right methodologies and that's what as trader looking for a mentor should be trying to pick up...

 

Just a heads up to not waste money on things that you can learn yourself.. Take the time and get your hands dirty trading (even if simulated) before enlisting the help of a mentor/coach..

 

That way, you will know what to ask, what to focus on and maybe save money...

[steve46 12]

Sorry Josh, don't know the man (Seiden)....as mentioned previously, the concept of supply & demand comes from classical economic theory....by now I am sure that other professionals have adapted some form for it for trading.

[joshdance 10]

Sorry Josh, don't know the man (Seiden)....as mentioned previously, the concept of supply & demand comes from classical economic theory....by now I am sure that other professionals have adapted some form for it for trading.

 

Indeed steve, can't credit whoever came up with "supply" and "demand" for sure, though Sam credits an old book, can't remember the name, for his understanding of it... Sam Seiden talks about "supply and demand nodes" and has pictures similar to what you posted, that's the only reason I asked. Just curious as I have enjoyed watching his free videos but have never paid for anything personally. It's just simple support and resistance really, though thinking of it as demand at the bottom and supply at the top does put a different spin on it and can be helpful I suppose.

[xkr1962 10]

90% of trading coaches are sincere and well intended - but 80% of trading coaches are incompetent. They attribute their own deficits to you and try to fix them. They ‘re actually learning to trade by teaching. They learn to fix themselves by learning (usually unsuccessfully) how to fix you – and as soon as they get it they no longer coach. Hm… so, basically, few trading coaches are actually strengths based…

 

I suggest you go for mentor instead of a coach. Unless you can precisely state your trading style and predilections, expect to go through a series of potential mentors before hopefully finding a fit. If you aren’t yet sure of your trading style(s), I would suggest you spend equal time in self exploration to your ‘screen time’ until you ‘know thyself’ - then apply the ‘speed dating’ technique to find a mentor.

 

If you want to post (or PM) your trading style – I will put together a few referrals for you.

 

All the best

 

That was a priceless post ZDO.

 

My mentor was / is a genius and spent a year trying to teach me his unique trend trading method within a small group in a live room, the problem was I was too green to get it way back then (2006).

 

I have spent the last five years learning / improving my trading fulltime with his stuff always in the back of my mind as being the "right" way to trade.

 

Way back in 06 he was averaging 70% win rates with quality 2-1 rr trades trading m15 trends in the direction of the h4 trend,

 

I could write reams on why his method was so right and why I didn't get it first time around but the point is I KNEW it was right cos he showed me by calling trades live in front of the groups eyes. We just were too green to get it way back then.

 

My point??

 

Well I get his method wholeheartedly now and have improved on it even, BUT, that doesn't mean I can trade it to the 70% or even 90% win rates that I know he now achieves.

 

You know what they say, give a group of traders a winning method and they will all get differing results.

 

I now teach his methods, some take years to get it, some take months, the most recent student is actually pissing me right off cos he is trading it so well even after just three months.

 

Teaching helps me enormously, it forces me to question myself every time I look at a chart or try to explain things to a student. Is it wrong that I teach? I don't think so, it would be a crime not to try to improve the method and spread the knowledge imho.

 

My mentor teaches and it improved his trading, I teach and it is improving mine. The method is unique, I have paid for my tuition with cash, years of my life and stress beyond belief.

 

P.S. all the people I have mentored so far have been free, I realise that I enjoy it and am good at it so now I charge, it is a natural progression.

[steve46 12]

Indeed steve, can't credit whoever came up with "supply" and "demand" for sure, though Sam credits an old book, can't remember the name, for his understanding of it... Sam Seiden talks about "supply and demand nodes" and has pictures similar to what you posted, that's the only reason I asked. Just curious as I have enjoyed watching his free videos but have never paid for anything personally. It's just simple support and resistance really, though thinking of it as demand at the bottom and supply at the top does put a different spin on it and can be helpful I suppose.

 

Well Josh, you are the second person to make the mistake of thinking that Supply/Demand analysis is "the same" as support and resistance...IF Mr. Seiden teaches that, then unfortunately I have to say we disagree....

 

Basically supply/demand analysis involves learning to distinguish when markets (meaning orders to buy vs orders to sell) are "in balance" or "out of balance'. To the extent that you realize this, you have a chance of learning something critically important...if instead you try to reduce it to simple support and resistance, well then you are seeing only part of a market and like most retail players, you will always be operating at a disadvantage.

 

Good luck

Edited March 27, 2011 by steve46

[joshdance 10]

Steve, I'm not sure what he teaches, but I'm interested in the distinction. I typically think of a level of "support" as a level at which buyers "supported" price and thus bought, causing price to rise. The only reason I can think that enough people aggressively bought is because the demand of market participants at that price level was high enough to make the price attractive to buy. Can you distinguish the two and correct my combining the two terms?

[steve46 12]

Steve, I'm not sure what he teaches, but I'm interested in the distinction. I typically think of a level of "support" as a level at which buyers "supported" price and thus bought, causing price to rise. The only reason I can think that enough people aggressively bought is because the demand of market participants at that price level was high enough to make the price attractive to buy. Can you distinguish the two and correct my combining the two terms?

 

Well the concept of support/resistance never did much for me....probably because when I was a retail trader I did not have a definition that worked consistently....Your definition is fine, except that typically what retail traders think of as support is a single price at which they can get in expecting an immediate reversal...a line in the sand....supply demand analysis doesn't work that way (at least not all the time)...for example, "demand" often occurs over a range of prices depending on the time frame of the chart.... thats just point #1

 

In addition there are multiple levels of supply and demand and knowing which one to trade is the important issue...most retail traders cannot isolate real support because they don't know how to define it...for me again it depends on time frame...I prefer to start with longer time frame charts....define my supply/demand levels and then work my way down to shorter time frames. When you do this, what you see is that eventually you get down to a more workable level of risk (because the range of prices that constitute supply or demand gets condensed down)....

 

The problem I have here is that this forum doesn't lend itself to what you need to see...on a long term chart...you need to see price leave a swing high or low and move significantly away....then make a base, and finally start to re-trace...as you move to shorter time frames....this model becomes the best way to visualize supply because you can see how price tests all the "in between" levels...the ones that retail trader think of as support or resistance....thats the way most of us learn...and I don't have the time to take people on that journey and still do my own work.

 

Hope this helps you a little bit

[xkr1962 10]

Well the concept of support/resistance never did much for me....probably because when I was a retail trader I did not have a definition that worked consistently....Your definition is fine, except that typically what retail traders think of as support is a single price at which they can get in expecting an immediate reversal...a line in the sand....supply demand analysis doesn't work that way (at least not all the time)...for example, "demand" often occurs over a range of prices depending on the time frame of the chart.... thats just point #1

 

In addition there are multiple levels of supply and demand and knowing which one to trade is the important issue...most retail traders cannot isolate real support because they don't know how to define it...for me again it depends on time frame...I prefer to start with longer time frame charts....define my supply/demand levels and then work my way down to shorter time frames. When you do this, what you see is that eventually you get down to a more workable level of risk (because the range of prices that constitute supply or demand gets condensed down)....

 

The problem I have here is that this forum doesn't lend itself to what you need to see...on a long term chart...you need to see price leave a swing high or low and move significantly away....then make a base, and finally start to re-trace...as you move to shorter time frames....this model becomes the best way to visualize supply because you can see how price tests all the "in between" levels...the ones that retail trader think of as support or resistance....thats the way most of us learn...and I don't have the time to take people on that journey and still do my own work.

 

Hope this helps you a little bit

 

That is a great explanation Steve and exactly how I have come to understand SR.

 

I have studied SR for years now and came to the same conclusion as Josh that orderflow, fair value, balance etc mean similar thing to SR. Ultimately when supply runs out and the balance tips I consider that to be support. All can be traded in similar or totally different ways.

 

Back on topic, mentoring fills a gap between waiting for the perfect setups for me. Patience and discipline have been the hardest thing I ever had to learn about retail trading.

[steve46 12]

That is a great explanation Steve and exactly how I have come to understand SR.

 

I have studied SR for years now and came to the same conclusion as Josh that orderflow, fair value, balance etc mean similar thing to SR. Ultimately when supply runs out and the balance tips I consider that to be support. All can be traded in similar or totally different ways.

 

Back on topic, mentoring fills a gap between waiting for the perfect setups for me. Patience and discipline have been the hardest thing I ever had to learn about retail trading.

 

Wow....Incredible....I have to admit that your interpretation of my comments was "surprising"

 

I remember a crazy old gentleman trader named Ed Seykota, who said (among other things) that we all get just what we want from the markets....I have been very fortunate and seems that I have already got what I wanted....I can only hope that you get what you want as well..Best of luck to you sir (or madam)...

Edited March 27, 2011 by steve46