The Right Coach/Mentor?

[Mysticforex 13]

Ingot54,

 

" I have always been a Fox Terrier of sorts, in that when I get hold of something, I will not rest until I have subdued and mastered it totally. I have a depth of stubbornness and commitment that WILL lead me to my goal. "

 

Describes me to a "T".

 

 

What pairs do you like to trade? If there is a pair we both like, we can start a Thread on it and compare notes.

Note: Others are encouraged to participate.

[Ingot54 13]

Ingot54,

 

" I have always been a Fox Terrier of sorts, in that when I get hold of something, I will not rest until I have subdued and mastered it totally. I have a depth of stubbornness and commitment that WILL lead me to my goal. "

 

Describes me to a "T".

 

 

What pairs do you like to trade? If there is a pair we both like, we can start a Thread on it and compare notes.

Note: Others are encouraged to participate.

 

Hey! MysticForex - you're on!

 

I don't get many offers, and I'm taking this one with both hands.

 

My "portfolio" includes only pairs that I consider "good" trenders, and whose daily ATR does not exceed my stop-settings. Having said that, I would be very interested in examining why one pair might be better than another to trade, and maybe even look past the usual blockers of spread and volatility/lack of volatility.

 

What I am saying, is that I have never asked anyone *why* they prefer a certain pair - I just assumed the ones I trade are optimal, when they may not be. I remain teachable at all points here, and whatever I contribute, I do so from personal choice, not dogma.

 

My 4 pairs are:

 

EURUSD

EURJPY

AUDUSD

EURAUD

 

and I keep a weather eye on USDCHF.

 

There are a couple of pairs in there that were chosen to avoid correlation, but another couple ARE correlated. I never trade more than 2 pairs simultaneously.

 

Having established that, I invite you to choose any of the five - or even suggest another not listed - I am happy either way.

 

I am heading out for a daily jog with my son, so will be back in about 2 hours - Please do whatever you need to set guidelines and ground-rules in a new thread - am truly looking forward to participating in this - and as you mentioned - I seriously hope other traders can also get involved and share in the benefits.

 

I use MT4 for charting, and another broker for trade execution. There is a lack of decent brokers in Australia with access to the Industry standards in Forex Trading Platforms, Charting packages, and data at reasonable cost. I "grew up" with MT4 and my broker, but am not averse to change for the better.

 

I believe NinjaT and T'Station are good, but I'm open to other suggestions re platforms/brokers/data and so on. Will worry about that later.

 

I'll run another mile this afternoon!

[Mysticforex 13]

Let,s go with AUD/USD,neutral territory for me. I rarely trade EUR crosses.

As evidenced by the Tags on my car, I have always been a GBP fan

( no, not the Green Bay Packers ).

[Ingot54 13]

Let,s go with AUD/USD,neutral territory for me. I rarely trade EUR crosses.

As evidenced by the Tags on my car, I have always been a GBP fan

( no, not the Green Bay Packers ).

 

 

I was wondering what a Mystic City boy would be doing backing a Wisconsin-based team ... but I guess the GB Packers are not so local anymore - national more like it. I had to ask my mate John Google about the packers ... and Mystic CT ( I cheated ... )

 

Anyway - I am heading over to your new thread with haste!

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f24/aud-usd-9258.html#post110907

[TheNegotiator 13]

Don't part with loads of cash. That's my opinion. It's really difficult to get a great mentor as they are probably pretty successful traders themselves. I would say first thing you need to do is analyse yourself. What type of person you are how much you can start an account with etc. Look at which timeframe would therefore be best and also which market may suit your timeframe and account size. Research types of technical trading or indeed methods of scalping and DOM reading. Once you have a broad idea of where you believe your path may lie, get involved in the forums, read books and you will develop. You may find someone willing to help, you may not. But at this point you are more likely to understand what constitutes help and what is useless rubbish designed to part you with your money.

 

TheNegotiator.

[Mysticforex 13]

I actually live in NY State, but we have kept our boats in Mystic for the past 20 years or so. We think of it as our second home.

 

MYSTIC: A Drinking Town with a Sailing Problem.

[Ingot54 13]

Yes - sound advice.

 

Unfortunately altruism has been smothered a bit by the need to keep dollars flowing.

 

But some make the flow of dollars the main game, instead of a part of why we do what we do.

 

Once you get bitten a couple of times, you begin to look at what the Coach is getting from the interaction as well.

Usually it will be a fair exchange, but there are reasons to suspect at times that the exchange will be your money for experience ... a very BAD experience!

 

:doh:

[Mysticforex 13]

Don't part with loads of cash. That's my opinion. It's really difficult to get a great mentor as they are probably pretty successful traders themselves. I would say first thing you need to do is analyse yourself. What type of person you are how much you can start an account with etc. Look at which timeframe would therefore be best and also which market may suit your timeframe and account size. Research types of technical trading or indeed methods of scalping and DOM reading. Once you have a broad idea of where you believe your path may lie, get involved in the forums, read books and you will develop. You may find someone willing to help, you may not. But at this point you are more likely to understand what constitutes help and what is useless rubbish designed to part you with your money.

 

TheNegotiator.

 

By all means. I've seen people jump right into mentorship programs without really knowing what it is they are looking for. Their only expectation, learn to make money.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Exactly what I was trying to say but perhaps rather more succinctly!!

 

By all means. I've seen people jump right into mentorship programs without really knowing what it is they are looking for. Their only expectation, learn to make money.

[Mysticforex 13]

Yes - sound advice.

 

Unfortunately altruism has been smothered a bit by the need to keep dollars flowing.

 

But some make the flow of dollars the main game, instead of a part of why we do what we do.

 

Once you get bitten a couple of times, you begin to look at what the Coach is getting from the interaction as well.

Usually it will be a fair exchange, but there are reasons to suspect at times that the exchange will be your money for experience ... a very BAD experience!

 

:doh:

 

My friend and Mentor also taught for a fee. Now first off, IMHO, being a Mentor implies more than just teaching a system.

 

My friend was often discussed on various Forex forums I visited. I often refrained from such discussions because I knew I would invariably lose my temper ( I became protective of my Mentor, I am loyal to a fault). There would be Pros and Cons. Eventually someone would chime in with:

WAH! WAH!> if he's such a good Trader, why does he have to teach?

Well my friend taught because he enjoyed teaching. He is a "people person".

But, he explained to me, if you don't attach a price, the students don't perceive a value.

( I found the same thing to be true when I was a Scuba Instructor, something I did not because I thought I could make a living at it, I just loved scuba diving. The friends that I taught/certified for free became casual, for the most part sloppy divers. The people I charged were more motivated, wanted value for their money and became better divers).

 

Now, here are the nuts and bolts of his teaching gig. ( and he will remain nameless )

class size was limited to 20 students at 2K a head. so a total income of 40K

Rental of a meeting room in a decent hotel. Cost? I have no idea, probably between $300 and $600 Bucks but I am just guessing.

Provide each student with Backtesting software, $75 a pop with his discount X 20 = $1500

Hire an assistant. The 4 times I did it with him he paid me $2K a day ( they were 2 day seminars) $4K

My airfare $800

My Hotel acc $440

His airfare ??? prob similar to mine.

His Hotel acc $440

Hire a video/Photographer for 2 days, airfare, Hotel, etc so the students would have copies of the seminar to take home with them $??? no idea.

Breakfast and Lunch for students and staff each day, $500 ????

During seminar, open buffet, fruit, muffins, tea, coffee, juice etc $ ???

And time away from his wife and kids. ( who knows, maybe that's a good thing once in a while :o )

 

Money is subjective, but all in all he didn't go home with a fortune. knowing what he could make trading during that time period.

[biegea 10]

Hi Mystic,

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Perhaps you could share some of the things with the TL community that were most valuable from the time you spent with your mentor? I am also curious to hear your thoughts on whether you feel the same kind of value could have been achieved in a class like the one you described the mentor as offering.

 

I would tend to think that there is no substitute for the somewhat-extended one-on-one experience and I find it hard not to be very skeptical of any kind of group offering that involves a one-time experience with little-to-no follow-up individual time.

 

Cheers,

biegea

[Mysticforex 13]

Hi Mystic,

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Perhaps you could share some of the things with the TL community that were most valuable from the time you spent with your mentor? I am also curious to hear your thoughts on whether you feel the same kind of value could have been achieved in a class like the one you described the mentor as offering.

 

I would tend to think that there is no substitute for the somewhat-extended one-on-one experience and I find it hard not to be very skeptical of any kind of group offering that involves a one-time experience with little-to-no follow-up individual time.

 

Cheers,

biegea

 

Hi biegia,

 

Absolutely Agree, there is no substitute for quality one on one time with a mentor.

If I wanted to learn to play guitar, and had a choice of 4 hours of face time with Jimi Hendrix, or months in an auditorium with the high school music teacher, My choice would be obvious.

 

We still maintain a private website accessible to every student my mentor has ever taught. Everyone is strongly encouraged to post a "My Week in Review". It contains the results of any trading for the week, What "I" did Right, and what "I" did wrong. Those that keep up with their "Homework" are the ones that usually find success.

 

Now, lets get to the core of what I think is the problem. When someone signs on with a mentor, whether or not the mentor is any good or not it's becuase thay want to make money, a lot of it, fast. If the mentor knows what they are doing, they have to present the student with something that's easy to learn and will produce some results. Because that's what the student wants, easy and money ( don't get me wrong, I like money as much as the next person).

In the old days if you were working middle class, and were lucky, a Master Carpenter might take someone on as an apprentice. You would learn a trade, develop into a craftsman. In some of the old brokerage houses you started in the mail room, or perhaps were recruited out of college. But you still did all the scut work in the office until someone thought you might be ready.

 

Sadly that's not the case anymore. Everyone reads too many books like "Liars Poker".

[biegea 10]

Thanks for the quick reply, mystic.

 

I wonder if you could address the first part of my question in a little more detail. I had said: "Perhaps you could share some of the things with the TL community that were most valuable from the time you spent with your mentor?"

 

No doubt you're right - we live in an age where the need for instant gratification reigns supreme. Still, I am confident that many traders reading this thread have put in plenty of time and still intend to put in as much more as it takes to find success. I'm sure that you could offer everyone some good food for thought as everyone continues forward and thinks through their own personal search for the right form of mentorship or coaching... or about what someone who has been through that process feels were some of the most valuable realizations or experiences that came from it.

 

Thanks,

biegea

[TradeRunner 10]

If I wanted to learn to play guitar, and had a choice of 4 hours of face time with Jimi Hendrix, or months in an auditorium with the high school music teacher, My choice would be obvious.

 

Wasn't Jimi Hendrix and many other great musicians self-taught?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Wasn't Jimi Hendrix and many other great musicians self-taught?

 

There's a difference. Most retail traders are stuck in a room on their own with nobody to 'jam' with. Much more difficult this way. So imho (not just because I'm a Mod) TL serves people very well in this way for those who are willing to get and stay involved.

 

Any reasonable suggestions or requests, pm me.

 

TheNegotiator.

[Mysticforex 13]

Wasn't Jimi Hendrix and many other great musicians self-taught?

 

Yes, he was, and played left handed on a guitar built for right handed players (he did change the strings into the correct order).

At the risk of dating myself, I saw him play 5 times in concert.

 

Jimi was a name I just thru out. Now you have made me think about it he was probably a poor choice. The man was genius, a Mozart of modern Rock Guitar. I may have had a hard time communicating with him. A better choice would be a Journeyman, or studio musician.

[Mysticforex 13]

Thanks for the quick reply, mystic.

 

I wonder if you could address the first part of my question in a little more detail. I had said: "Perhaps you could share some of the things with the TL community that were most valuable from the time you spent with your mentor?"

 

Thanks,

biegea

 

I am a big believer in the Power of Example. And I think that actually seeing a "normal" person do it, was what made the biggest impression on me. No mirrors, no magic, no special sauce, the guy sat down at his desk and did his job. Then just hanging around and picking up little bits of info that I may have discovered by trial and error. Prior to trading I had been a business owner, but had no financial backround whatsoever.

( turns out neither did he ). Such as how to play "The Carry Trade".

( sigh, when the carry trade ended it was like going to the barn and finding the Goose that laid The Golden Egg had died ).

[stpips89 10]

So, I am wondering, how does one find a coach? How do you even look for one? Do you look for one that you can see face to face, or someone you just talk to on the phone, or just in a chat room? I don't know where to start.

 

I am at the point, where I want to find someone who can help me set up my day trading system. I am trying to keep it simple as Brownsfan says, but I need to be able to speak to someone about the day to day things one does, when they do trading full time.

 

I am about to get the right capital to have a good chunk to trade with and for now I am looking to trade stocks strictly. I would be interested in futures and options, but I don't want to get an overload and want to learn those as I have perfected one thing at a time.

 

So, I am asking you guys, those who really jumped into this, as I am planning on, how do you find a coach, mentor, or whatever you may call that person who is going to help you day to day in the beginning.

 

I would appreciate the help. The education is tremendeous here, so I know I am asking the right people. If anyone would like to call me, if they have time for a chat, even a quick one, if they can help, please send me a PM and I will send you my cellphone number, as I wasn't sure if I should just advertise it for the world literally to see...hehehe.

 

Thanks,

Eva

 

I would suggest checking out Nial Fuller if you have any interest in learning to trade with pure price action analysis.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Mysticforex

[pricetrader99 10]

I would suggest checking out Nial Fuller if you have any interest in learning to trade with pure price action analysis.

 

Hey stpips, I learned quite a bit from Nial as well, he seems to be pretty good with teaching PA, you can actually learn a lot just from his free stuff, fyi.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Mysticforex

[steve46 12]

For the Original Poster "Angela"?

 

Well I took the time to read the comments in this thread and as usual you have a lot of "urban myth" to wade through.

 

The obstacles that amateurs encounter are many. Those of us who can do this are doing it. Typically we do not train others because it would require taking a cut in pay (I can explain further if there is interest). Also some of us work for institutions that restrict employees from having "outside" business interests.

 

On the plus side, there are some very simple skills that can be taught and will allow you to profit in any liquid market, provided you have the pre-requisites (as in any profession, you have to have an appropriate educational basis).

 

and finally it does require work...and I suggest this because for reasons unknown to me, many retail (amateurs) decide to find "trade rooms" where a moderator simply tells people when to buy or sell....They assume that one can "buy their way into the profession" or have it delivered to them like room service in a hotel...I assure you that never works. There is no substitute for developing your own skills.

 

If my impression is correct, you are interested in stocks (equities). That being said, you might want to look briefly at my thread on institutional trading. I am sure most here look at this as an "either/or" proposition, but in truth what I do is add a dimension to the kind of trade that most try to do. I do this by incorporating a concept called "time-based pivots"...Although it is not mentioned in my thread, I also trade based on the release of economic reports (this type of appproach is applicable to earnings reports)...and depending on your time frame, you may want to learn about options and the advantages they can offer. Depending on your background you may benefit from reading Lawrence McMillan's book "Options as a Strategic Investment".

 

RISK

 

Interesting that you NEVER hear amateur traders talk about this...and yet it is the basis of a sound professional approach.. I would go so far as to say that the primary difference between amateurs and professionals is the ability to characterize and manage risk effectively.

 

For me the bottom line is this...I could make money in a number of ways....but risk management has to be a part of program and this is one way to screen educational providers. The incompetent and the pretenders don't deal with it. For skilled professional providers of trading education, this is part of the core curriculum. The idea of references doesn't work for obvious reasons. The idea that one needs "verification" of any sort or guarantees is also a non-starter (for me)...what you need to look for is a person who can make things understandable to YOU in simple terms.....once you find that person or resource you will also find that you are making steady progress toward your goals...providing you do the work, that is what you need.

 

Good luck

Steve46

[Ingot54 13]

For the Original Poster "Angela"?

 

Well I took the time to read the comments in this thread and as usual you have a lot of "urban myth" to wade through.

 

On the plus side, there are some very simple skills that can be taught and will allow you to profit in any liquid market, provided you have the pre-requisites (as in any profession, you have to have an appropriate educational basis).

 

Although it is not mentioned in my thread, I also trade based on the release of economic reports (this type of approach is applicable to earnings reports)

 

Steve46

 

Thanks Steve for that assessment and for the good information you provided ... education, economics reports ... and not the least - RISK management. I am interested in what else you have to say, and will follow your posts here - thanks for your efforts to make a difference.

 

I recently came across a site that allows people to receive up-to-date info on what can be important indicators of risk. There is a subscription fee, but also a free bi-weekly Intelligence Report.

 

I think experienced traders will quickly realise the importance of such information, and I hope this post does not detract from the other things you are sharing.

 

I can not post the link ... forum rules ... but this is exactly the same thing:

 

Google: "Stratfor Geopolitical Intelligence"

 

Cheers

[steve46 12]

thanks for that resource....any news based resource is worth checking out

 

What traders ought to be doing however is "pre-planning" their approach to the markets, especially in what professionals characterize as an "obvious bias market"...

 

In this market the obvious bias is on the negative side...professsionals look at the how the market is priced (in terms of wholesale/retail value and time-based pivots) and will continue to "mark it down"...meaning we will tend to emphasize the short side (until we are proven wrong).

 

Tonight is a great example. The Globex (ES contract) opened down. Our pre-market plan identified S/D above and we waited for the inevitable spike into that area for a short opportunity. There is a lot more to say about this type of orientation to the market (for instance there are actually two (2) Supply/Demand Nodes in this chart and the upper offers the highest percentage success for a short) but this is not the right venue for seminar lol...

 

Good luck

Edited March 14, 2011 by steve46

[steve46 12]

Sorry if this is off topic, but here is an updated chart.

 

The most recent short opportunity is notated...and you can see that the S/D node offered a nice

clean entry and at least 7 pts profit.

[MightyMouse 12]

thanks for that resource....any news based resource is worth checking out

 

What traders ought to be doing however is "pre-planning" their approach to the markets, especially in what professionals characterize as an "obvious bias market"...

 

In this market the obvious bias is on the negative side...professsionals look at the how the market is priced (in terms of wholesale/retail value and time-based pivots) and will continue to "mark it down"...meaning we will tend to emphasize the short side (until we are proven wrong).

 

Tonight is a great example. The Globex (ES contract) opened down. Our pre-market plan identified S/D above and we waited for the inevitable spike into that area for a short opportunity. There is a lot more to say about this type of orientation to the market (for instance there are actually two (2) Supply/Demand Nodes in this chart and the upper offers the highest percentage success for a short) but this is not the right venue for seminar lol...

 

Good luck

 

Steve,

 

An overwhelming theme in your posts seem to be a distinction between retail/amateur and institutional/professional. It seems pretty clear that you self-certify as an institutional/professional.

 

As an institutional/professional, I am sure you are aware that there are great contrarian indicators of market bias when institutional/professionals are in agreement. For that I will specifically thank you for participating in a group whose folly the rest of the plebeian traders can profit from.

 

I am a self-certified fledgling/amateur/retail trader. I hope to one day cease to refer to myself as fledgling and become fully retail/amateur. I do not trade ES, but I do wonder as a fledgling/amateur/retail trader when oh when I will be able to see the short opportunity in a range based upwardly biased market like ES has been since late Friday. Personally, I wouldn't touch a long until we reached 1300, at the moment, and would go short if we did reach the 1286 area. I do not trade range based chop, so maybe that is the source of my myopic view and inability to see the institutional/professional short opportunity.

 

As a precaution, I will warn you that in addition to my self-certified status of fledgling/retail/amateur trader, I am wrong more than I am right and as such consider my trade wrong until it is right. Perhaps you could enlighten us on how to be right until you are wrong.

 

 

MM

[steve46 12]

Sir or Madam

 

If you take a moment to look the charts, and then simply ask yourself "what is the market doing" one assumes that you will eventually (depending on your skill level) come to the conclusion that we are in a volatile, news driven, down trending market. Although they don't like to acknowledge it, professional interests will use that basis to mark markets down to a level where they can buy inventory at distressed prices (prices at or below wholesale value). In order to do this they have to drive markets down. That has been done since the outbreak of the Mideast conflict and now in the wake of the Japan distaster it continues albeit at a slower pace, because the United States is considered to be insulated somewhat from the effects of that tragedy.

 

The charts tell the story of what has happened. Professionals will continue to drive it down until they see other institutions move in with size to buy at distressed prices. There are "tells" that can be used including open interest as well as daily and hourly volume. Those of us who do this for a living also have other tools at our disposal...

 

The original comment was simple. We continue to sell at every opportunity until the market proves us wrong and makes us pay up....That is "how" we look to be right until proven wrong...(the two charts above are examples).

 

And finally what "certifies" me is the level of my commentary and my knowledge of specific markets. There is plenty that I do not know, but the S&P is one market that I know very well. I think a person of average intelligence can tell whether an author knows what they are talking about...if you are skeptical, ignoring my commentary is your best course of action.

 

Good Luck

Edited March 14, 2011 by steve46