Tradestation: The good, the bad or the ugly?

[timokrates 10]

Hi all,

 

if you read the comments on tradestation on the typical pages, the result is pretty mixed. A lot of complaints, but also a lot a fans, which in general like the software not so much the brokerage service.

 

Because it's not possible to demo trade the platform. I would like to ask about some experiences with the platform, the order matrix and specially with data and service.

 

I plan to be more a scalper, so the funcinality of the order matrix would be interesting as well. Is it easy to enter and modify orders and to scale out manually?

 

The commissions seem to be ok and with 10 RT (futures) the platform fee is waived. Even if the 30 day trial they offer is more or less a joke, because you have to do the 10 RT if you don't want to pay the $99 the next month.

 

Any experiences are welcome!

[Soultrader 12]

Hi timokrates,

 

If you are a scalper the TS execution will not be suitable for you in my opinion. I personally recommend the Infinity AT (pm me if interested). I have had numerous cases of execution problems in the past with TS with matrix freezing, slippage, etc.. which is why I left TS.

 

However, the charting software is top notch. Even the Reuters client trading ppl admitted it when I mentioned how much Reuters suck compared to TS. lol

[james_gsx 16]

I like TS because it's all in one and simple to use, you get great charting software and the ability to trade. I think the TS matrix is confusing and I've never been fond of it. But I do like the ability to create indicators and all of that.

 

If you want just charts, from my experience eSignal is the way to go. Ideally I would love to use Infinity AT with eSignal since I tend to lean more towards scalping. But then again that comes down to what your definition of scalping is, and that's a whole other topic on it's own. But if you want good charts and plan on holding a position for longer than a "scalp" then I think TS is a good route to explore.

 

You might want to check out OEC, I know a few people here use it and enjoy it.

[timokrates 10]

Thanks a lot everybody.

 

I tested most of the platforms and have to say that the Infinity order window is great.

 

Also Ninjatrader is attractive in a way. The Zen data feed is very fast, but I had some problems with the platform in regards to crashes and software problems.

Soultrader you mentioned somewhere that you think about using NT?

 

What I need is a professional platform and service. I will check Infinity again.

 

Any experiences with X-Trader? I believe with Velocity Futures it's affordable. You pay higher commissions ($5.75), but then it's free.

 

What I need is reliability specially in regards to the data, because I plan to base my trades more on time & sales. For that the Interactive Brokers feed is not the right one for example.

[Soultrader 12]

Hi timokrates,

 

Try the Infinity AT demo first to see if you like it. I work closely with them so can negotiate good rates for you with Infinity. If you are a scalper, frequency should be high so I should be able to get you decent rates. Let me know.

[brownsfan019 17]

tim,

My feedback on your choices here:

 

TS - Great charts, junk order entry. Customer service is practically non-existent. Good luck if you need out of a trade and your computer is down. GREAT charts though.

 

XTrader - If you NEED the functions, worth the cost. I'm guessing you probably don't. NOT worth the extra cost in my opinion.

 

Ninja/Zen - as you said, gets great reviews but kind of costly in my opinion for what you get. If I was going to go this route, I'd probably consider something like Xtrader or T4 for the same costs.

 

Infinity - I personally never received a competitive commission quote. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Open ECry - I'm biased here since I trade here currently. Great rates, customer service and platform. The platform AND data are FREE. You can plug the data into other charting platforms if you don't like their package. Just an all around great deal for how competitive their commissions are.

[Hlm 10]

My thoughts on CHEAP services-

 

TS has very nice charts and a big community, but their execution for aggressive daytraders is very poor. Also their support is lacking imo. It's selling point is that it's an "All in One" package where you can trade many different instruments. Note: I do know people that trade their 10 round trips a month to wave the fee and then use another broker for execution.

 

If you are looking for a cheap solid service Infinity is great. I have never had a problem with their execution and their charting software is only $26/mo. Even during FOMC announcements I have had a flawless feed. (Futures only though)

 

I have heard good things about OEC but have not used them. From what I have heard they sound very similar to Infinity with their quality of service.

[brownsfan019 17]

If you are looking for a cheap solid service Infinity is great. I have never had a problem with their execution and their charting software is only $26/mo. Even during FOMC announcements I have had a flawless feed. (Futures only though)

 

I have heard good things about OEC but have not used them. From what I have heard they sound very similar to Infinity with their quality of service.

 

All things being equal, OEC's platform is FREE along with FREE data. Not sure if Infinity offers their customers FREE data to just about any exchange/contract you could want. That's a big deal for many since data fees can be one of the larger expenses of a trader's budget. Removing ALL data fees is a nice thing.

 

Does Infinity offer free data as well? I have no idea.

 

I think that's the difference between an OEC and Infinity vs. a Ninja or TT - since they are going to make their money on the commissions side, they can afford to give away or charge little for data/charting whereas a Ninja must charge for the product b/c they are not making money on the brokerage side.

 

Not too mention, I believe Ninja can cost as much as $700/mo depending on volume and such. I was paying $500/mo for T4 and eliminating that extra fee has saved me $6k a year.

[Hlm 10]

All things being equal, OEC's platform is FREE along with FREE data. Not sure if Infinity offers their customers FREE data to just about any exchange/contract you could want. That's a big deal for many since data fees can be one of the larger expenses of a trader's budget. Removing ALL data fees is a nice thing.

 

Does Infinity offer free data as well? I have no idea.

 

Infinity data is FREE. You can trade through the their DOM without having the charting service. As for the instruments you can trade, they have the standard futures. (ER2, ES, DAS, ESX, NQ, YM). So yes, if you are looking for only one broker that can do all (more than futures) Infinity will not suite your needs. It's the charting that cost money and I have never used OEC's charting so I can't compare.

 

However, this is why I stated that many people trade the min amount with TS and do the rest of the execution through another broker. I personally believe that any serious trader should have two brokers anyway. For example, trading with TS and Infinity gives you free charting (with TS) and fast execution (with Infinity) while being able to trade anything you want while hedging some connection or data feed risk with two individual brokers.

 

But yes, I have NO affiliation with Infinity and I have NOT used (having nothing against) OEC. So who knows, OEC might be the best for some. I am just stating what I have observed.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Hlm
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[timokrates 10]

tim,

My feedback on your choices here:

 

TS - Great charts, junk order entry. Customer service is practically non-existent. Good luck if you need out of a trade and your computer is down. GREAT charts though.

 

XTrader - If you NEED the functions, worth the cost. I'm guessing you probably don't. NOT worth the extra cost in my opinion.

 

Ninja/Zen - as you said, gets great reviews but kind of costly in my opinion for what you get. If I was going to go this route, I'd probably consider something like Xtrader or T4 for the same costs.

 

Infinity - I personally never received a competitive commission quote. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Open ECry - I'm biased here since I trade here currently. Great rates, customer service and platform. The platform AND data are FREE. You can plug the data into other charting platforms if you don't like their package. Just an all around great deal for how competitive their commissions are.

 

Thanks for your detailled statement.

 

I just downloaded the OpenECry demo. Tried it before, but went on because they did not offer Tick or volume charts.

 

Do you use these kind of charts and what about time & sales? Did they implement it now? And does it work correctly (read some negative comments somewhere)?

 

In regards to Ninjatrader and X-Trader don't you think that NT with $50 is less expensive in comparison? Do you have other rates?

 

In general I'm searching for a good package with great data and order entry/modification (and execution of course), good charting (don't need fancy indicators, just working tick or volume charts) and the time & sales feature.

 

Of course fees and specially commissions play a decent role, but reliability regarding platform and brokerage are in first plays - don't get me wrong, I'm not the guy that is able to afford CQG...

[brownsfan019 17]

Tim - OEC does now have tick and volume charts as an available setting on their charting. If I may say so myself, the volume setting was a suggestion that I highly recommended to them.

 

No time and sales currently. That's on my list as well.

[timokrates 10]

Infinity data is FREE. You can trade through the their DOM without having the charting service. As for the instruments you can trade, they have the standard futures. (ER2, ES, DAS, ESX, NQ, YM). So yes, if you are looking for only one broker that can do all (more than futures) Infinity will not suite your needs. It's the charting that cost money and I have never used OEC's charting so I can't compare.

 

However, this is why I stated that many people trade the min amount with TS and do the rest of the execution through another broker. I personally believe that any serious trader should have two brokers anyway. For example, trading with TS and Infinity gives you free charting (with TS) and fast execution (with Infinity) while being able to trade anything you want while hedging some connection or data feed risk with two individual brokers.

 

Thanks, that sounds good.

 

Does anybody know if it's possible to use NT (which is free for charting I believe) in combination with Infinity, so that you only have one account?

[Sparrow 10]

I can't say for sure but Infinity is supported by NT, and the option to purchase/lease it for execution with them is not available.

 

That's why I think they have some sort of deal with them.

 

The platform I would most love to evaluate/use is NeoTicker, sounds pretty sophisticated but NT is my best option at the moment.

[Sparrow 10]

I think Mirus Futures includes ZenFire+NT in their service. I'd have to contact them for details though, also no idea how competitive they are.

[timokrates 10]

Thanks Sparrow,

 

I demoed Ninja trough them. Not bad, but as mentioned before I have some trouble with NT because it's very system consuming.

 

In general I got the impression that NT contains some good ideas, but it seems to be a bit beta...

 

Grüße aus Köln nach Wiesbaden btw

[timokrates 10]

After clicking some banners I have to ask if anyone has some experiences with MultiCharts?

 

Is it an exact copy of Tradestation?

 

If possible maybe Infinty and MC would be an option...

[thrunner 10]

Is it an exact copy of Tradestation?

No. It has gotten a lot better with 2.1 (but also >2x more expensive as well from $399 I believe to $899), but automation trading is quite limited and there are no radar screen and DOM.

The good news is that most indicators will run without much alteration, even some of the bid/ask transient data type indicators. The question you should ask yourself is what type of trader are you and what type of charting and data feed do you need?

You can get a 30 day free trial of MC here: http://www.tssupport.com/support/downloads/

[brownsfan019 17]

I've liked MC for awhile now. I was using that before OEC's charts got better.

 

One nice thing for OEC customers is that you can plug their data into MC, so you still get that free data to use.

[AbeSmith 10]

TS has excellent charting, and for 10 roundtrips per month you get it for free. But the YM data is $55, and the order execution is slow.

 

I spoke to a TS representative some weeks ago and he said very soon they will have a demo version of TS. That was my biggest complaint about TS, is that they provided no demo. I lost some money on account of that. But if that is fixed then the next biggest complain is poor execution. Infinity is the way to go with that, and also IB. Though customer service at IB is the worse I have encountered.

[Sparrow 10]

Thanks Sparrow,

 

I demoed Ninja trough them. Not bad, but as mentioned before I have some trouble with NT because it's very system consuming.

 

In general I got the impression that NT contains some good ideas, but it seems to be a bit beta...

 

Grüße aus Köln nach Wiesbaden btw

 

I agree with you about NT, although imo resource consumption isn't that bad, at least if you have your computer dedicated to trading.

 

It's good enough to satisfy most of my very specific needs: free with data from MB, convenient to program and pretty.

But it is clearly not as advanced as some of the competitors and isn't rock solid but stability is ok:pc guru:.

 

QuoteTracker is another interesting platform, it doesn't have the bells and whistles but I've seen people rack up serious profits with it.

 

Good luck und Grüße zurück nach Köln:ciao:

[james_gsx 16]

Does anyone know if it's possible to use Infinity with either eSignal or TS? Or since it can be used as an independent broker can I use it with whatever charting software I'd like?

 

The more I scalp, the more I find myself losing money with TS due to bad fills.

[Sparrow 10]

TS is not listed on their page, imo TS works and executes only with TS.

But I'm no expert on TS.

[Soultrader 12]

I just heard that TS went down today again? Can anyone confirm this?

[timokrates 10]

No. It has gotten a lot better with 2.1 (but also >2x more expensive as well from $399 I believe to $899), but automation trading is quite limited and there are no radar screen and DOM.

The good news is that most indicators will run without much alteration, even some of the bid/ask transient data type indicators. The question you should ask yourself is what type of trader are you and what type of charting and data feed do you need?

You can get a 30 day free trial of MC here: http://www.tssupport.com/support/downloads/

 

I think I will give it a try. If you buy it for a half year you end up with $49, what is just comparable to Ninjatrader for example.

 

Regarding Infinity (Sierra) Charts I have to say that it's cheap and stable, but not very intuitive. And if you have to work with it the whole day is has to suit you imho.

 

Does anybody know about the different data feeds brokers use. Are there big differences or is the difference more in regards to order execution?

 

From what I saw Zen data is really fast, but is the difference so big that it matters - even for scalpers?

 

Don't they all use the same data coming directly from the exchange like the CME?

[bh_trade 10]

I was at my desk all day today and did not have any problems with TS.

 

Their DOM can get messy from time to time, but often it is my own internet service that is the problem. But I only trade 2-3x per day and I have my entry orders parked well before price gets there so I can't really comment from an aggressive scalping point of view. I have used TS for charting since 1998 so I like their charts and easy language is the only programming language I am remotely familiar with. It sounds like there are better options out there these days, but it is familiar and it works for me.

 

 

I just heard that TS went down today again? Can anyone confirm this?