Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Sparrow

Daily stop loss/profit targets

Recommended Posts

Sparrow,

 

Thanks for the article, it was refreshing!

 

I can certainly relate to this passage...

 

"If you have been day trading more than a few weeks, I am sure you have experienced that one, terrible day where you look back and ask yourself, “Why didn’t I stop trading after I was down X amount of dollars?†or “I cannot believe I made $500 each day the last three days only to lose $2,500 today because I could not walk away.â€Â

 

I can remember one week I was up about $4,600 by Friday afternoon on the week. By the time the closing bell rang I closed the week out down nearly $5,000 (total losses near 10,000)! That was the single worst day I have ever had trading. I was really undisciplined and arrogant back then :crap:

 

It's all a trial by fire though. Some people just get burned more than others on the way to the top!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been there MrPaul - I guess all but those that start out incredibly disciplined have. I think the emotional damage is probably more severe than the financial damage.

 

On the other side side sometimes a coupled of early losses can sort of harden your resolve and you actually really knuckle down and trade well.

 

I guess the key thing is to follow your plan. If you can do that after setbacks (or successes) maybe you don't need the safety valve. If you are prone to going 'off piste' then perhaps limits are good. Pretty much an individual thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo it's not only about having troubles with discipline, sometimes the market might act a lot different to what you are used to and your setups fail.

Just having a bad day can be a reason for draw downs for a successful trader.

Blowing more than 10% of your capital e.g. on one day is really a waste, better get back to the drawing board earlier or just stay on the sidelines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the main problem is that you have to force yourself to see the longrun picture. Even if you stick to every rule you will still face loosing streaks. What really helps me focus is just look at screenshots of good trades I made over and over again. Positiv attitude is half the game.

 

That said I still haven't been able to walk away once I am having a bad day, but I refocus quite fast and my max drawdown has never been out of control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's hard to see tomorrow as a bright future when you're down and want to see it your drawndown reversed. But it's inevitable, the emotional state is already disturbed and contaminated. Any more of those will get the drawdown spiral down even more. Get out while the getting is good. I have those days, I usually fool myself by saying the market is not right today so it gives me a reason to stop trading the rest of the day. But if I convince myself that it's me that needs to do right, that's when that convincing will get me back in and do more harm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this concept has been discussed already but here is a thought:

 

Treat your daily stop no different than you treat your trading stop. It is kind of like trading off your PnL. Trail the stop as the day moves on and your PnL goes up (hopefully).

 

For Example...

 

When I start trading I have a daily stop that is determined by both how much I can make in a day and the type of market condition I expect. In general I do not like to lose more than I can make back the next day. As the day moves on I will move my stop up depending on what the market condition actually is and how well I am doing. During lunch times I usually have another stop above my daily stop. This allows me room to play the lunchtime (if I want to) without getting whipped out for the day in slow volume times. For example, many of you in the chat room saw me hit my lunchtime stop a few days ago. As for targets, I can’t really say I have any (personal choice).

 

Of course this may work for some of you and not for others. It also depends on how well you are at trailing stops. However, I do feel that it is VERY important to have a daily stop that you can make up quickly. Every trader has a bad day. Yes, some days you would have made it all back and more if you kept trading. But I assure you, there are many more where you would have been wiped out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a great approach. Why haven't thought of that. I would certainly look into this one. To be honest, I haven't come across many books or seminars talking about money management on a daily basis, but this is certain a nugget to take from. Thanks hlm!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great article indeed. I am too new, so haven't had a chance to make too many mistakes, but these kind of articles certainly help me get the right discipline, or at least know what I should be shooting for as far as the type of discipline I need to have to make and keep the profits I earn. By nature I am not a gambler (don't like to loose my hard earned money), so I am learning how to make profit and when to get out, whether by making enough profit by what I set out for myself, or with the right stop loss, in case a trade decision has gone wrong.

 

Thanks!!!

 

Eva

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And here comes the PITA :roll eyes:

 

I think it really comes down to YOUR trading styles and what YOUR personal research has shown about this very topic.

 

Example: I know that I will hit rough days. It's to be expected. Friday was one of them. I also know that there are plenty of days where I will take a few losses initially and then the next few trades take it over. Now, if I was not around for those winners, I'd be upset.

 

But, THAT'S ME AND MY TRADING STYLE. I KNOW what to expect based on how I trade.

 

Point is that I do not care for 'one size fits all' approaches b/c it simply does not work in trading. I can prove this article as a complete and utter farce; meanwhile, HLM and others could probably prove the merits. There is no right answer here, but there is always two sides to the coin.

 

Once YOU KNOW what works for YOU, then you can decide whether a stop loss target is a good idea or not. It obviously works for HLM but I know that it works for him b/c he's already done the research. I have no doubt that HLM has done the research and work necessary to be able to say what he did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  brownsfan019 said:
Once YOU KNOW what works for YOU, then you can decide...
Exactly...in this business there are many ways to get the job done. The money management I described works very well for MY style of trading. I probably play much tighter than your standard active daytrader. When possible I like to save the gambling for the poker table ;). The main purpose of my post was to show an example of a dynamic style that's different than what's normally taught. I do feel very strongly that one should have a thought out daily stop placed in advance. How much and if it's dynamic depends on your style. I will leave it at that before I start quoting Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler". :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Hlm said:
Exactly...in this business there are many ways to get the job done. The money management I described works very well for MY style of trading. I probably play much tighter than your standard active daytrader. When possible I like to save the gambling for the poker table ;). The main purpose of my post was to show an example of a dynamic style that's different than what's normally taught. I do feel very strongly that one should have a thought out daily stop placed in advance. How much and if it's dynamic depends on your style. I will leave it at that before I start quoting Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler". :)

 

:o

 

Key is to find what works for you.

 

Now, back to PokerStars.

 

:rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking to transition to an even longer term trader- trading off Daily charts. I trade Forex and would like any insight as to stop loss (in this case it would be profit protection)

I'm aware that it depends on the currency. Anything with CAD or JPY you must allow larger spread, but I don't want to set it so tight, I cut my profits short- I want the winners to run.

 

Anyone trade Daily Forex charts that may lend assistance?

Trailing Stops may be for fools, I have been experimenting with them for years, on and off, and seem to be too tight (even 85 pips) at times.

Sledge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've all heard this one: Let profits run, cut losses short"

 

When you have a daily Profit Target you are in effect not letting your profits run. I also think it adversely effects your trading psychology. How will you ever know what you are capable of making in a day if you are automatically quitting at a set number??

 

Have a great week ya'll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the idea of a daily MAX loss-stop loss...

 

is to prevent a sort of burning-of-the-cash jumping into the fire behavior?

 

Because once your down, you're going to make bad trades, even the best do it, I've seen it happen to an awesome trader friend of mine...

 

It's all about understanding how YOUR own self will react to loss, and taking protective measures to trade another day. And in futures and FX, you must be careful and logical (while still taking defined risks).

 

There is a fine, fine line between gambling, and trading..

Folding early in texas hold em is a strategy I use often, and I also "fold" or stop out early in trading too, because the market is like a black hole if you're not careful!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The daily stop maybe designed to limit your capital commitment where the market might not be as fluid.

Of course, you need to know if this applies. Or maybe your trading skills for the day are not where they should

be to manage your profitable trades.

 

I always operate from two angles

1. my setups are profitable over time

2. preserve the capital.

 

There's some distribution of losing and winning trades. Approaching the daily stop loss, I can

cut the size in order to execute extra few more trades beating the loser/winner distribution.

This is a sort of defensive mode. It allows you to take that extra trade where you normally wouldn't if

your daily stop is hit. Even at the reduced size I can make up the losses with a one or two

good trades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been having same problem. It's so hard to walk away when you're down.

 

result this week

 

mon: +$290

tues: +$220

Wed: +$820

Thur: +$60

Fri: guess what ? -$1,260

 

I was very sick about it. Could someone here with this kind of problem but later able to find solution to correctly modify his behavior tell us how to tackle this problem ?

 

many thanks in advance...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should only stop trading if you are making mistakes.

There are only 4 trading mistakes:

1 Getting in when you were not supposed to.

2. Getting out when you were not supposed to.

3. Staying in longer than you were supposed

4. not getting in when you were supposed to

It doesn't matter if you make or lose money when you commit one of the above 4.

 

Losses from trading are not mistakes; they are part of the game.

 

You shouldn't be thinking about your wins and losses when you are trading. If your set up appears, take it as if it were the first trade of the day. If you are affected by wins and losses, your mind is not yet where it should be to trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>It doesn't matter if you make or lose money when you commit one of the above 4.

 

not understand the above,

and the inability to discern the difference between lucky win from true win,

will eventually separate the wannabies from the long term survivors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Hlm, as for daily targets I also have no set target. If the day is providing good setups then I trade them till they fail, if the day is slow I trade less. The month is usually filled with a handful of average days and a few great days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.