Tick chart trading

[ketmoney 10]

What are the best settings for tick chart, when using small time frame

[carcanaques 10]

What are the best settings for tick chart, when using small time frame

Your question is redundant. A tick chart by definition is a small time frame. What are you trying to accomplish?

[mister ed 10]

The best setting is going to depend on what it is you are trying to achieve, such as what size moves you are looking for, what market(s) you are trading - stocks, futures, fx? What instruments are you trading within those markets - tick size vary vastly between YM and ES for example.

 

So, more information is needed, and at the end of the day you will make the decision based on your own observations and research.

[ketmoney 10]

What are the best settings for tick chart, when using small time frame

 

If I am trading ES.

[MC 10]

If I am trading ES.

You really just need to tinker with the setting till you get one that provides the most instances of your setup that end up profitable. Back testing along with forward testing is really the only way to get your answer. And if you don't have a setup yet that's the first step because to just trade on a whim or a chance will end up with you in the poor house. Get that setup with a nice risk to reward ratio and get testing.

 

On the YM for my setups I use 144 tick. The ES is usually about 10 times the volume so in theory 1440 tick would be best for me. Guess what, it doesn't match up so if I ever want to trade the ES I need to do my testing all over again. :o:crap:

[brownsfan019 17]

The settings for tick chart or volume based chart are dependent on YOU and YOUR preferences. Smaller number = quicker prints.

 

YOUR choice.

 

There's no right answer here.

[BlowFish 10]

Check out the selecting a time frame thread. Equally applicable to tick charts.

 

Cheers.

[ketmoney 10]

Thanks for insight. I am going to test different tick values and see wish settings work best with my setup.

[walterw 10]

Hi Ketmoney, I think you probably didnt get the answer you expected as it is a little too general... let me add my two cents here...

 

I like tick charts... actually on futures I trade YM and use 22T charts... thats because I do very fast trades... so you may want to experiment this numbers on tick charts as they are quite popular : 22 , 55 , 110 , 233... always I do have a 5 min chart for some aerial trend view... cheers Walter.

[ketmoney 10]

thanks very much

[waveslider 10]

I like 900 ticks for ES, probably equates to about 4 minute charts

[Blu Bull 10]

Hi Ketmoney, I think you probably didnt get the answer you expected as it is a little too general... let me add my two cents here...

 

I like tick charts... actually on futures I trade YM and use 22T charts... thats because I do very fast trades... so you may want to experiment this numbers on tick charts as they are quite popular : 22 , 55 , 110 , 233... always I do have a 5 min chart for some aerial trend view... cheers Walter.

Thanks for the info

[kuokam 10]

Unearthing a dino here

Still a margin between 22 and 223! Just for one product. There must be a general rule (of thumb?) for how to set tick chart.

 

 

Hi Ketmoney, I think you probably didnt get the answer you expected as it is a little too general... let me add my two cents here...

 

I like tick charts... actually on futures I trade YM and use 22T charts... thats because I do very fast trades... so you may want to experiment this numbers on tick charts as they are quite popular : 22 , 55 , 110 , 233... always I do have a 5 min chart for some aerial trend view... cheers Walter.

[jpennybags 11]

Unearthing a dino here

There must be a general rule (of thumb?) for how to set tick chart.

 

Someone with the intent of employing fast trading strategies (me) will want to use a faster chart. For someone who is employing a strategy that seeks larger price swings a slower chart would (may) be preferred.

 

It depends on the strategy, the market traded, and current market conditions... which I think was being expressed by the previous posts.

[kuokam 10]

What is a faster chart? a slower chart? Take for instance GC or 6E to illustrate.

Thanks

 

Someone with the intent of employing fast trading strategies (me) will want to use a faster chart. For someone who is employing a strategy that seeks larger price swings a slower chart would (may) be preferred.

 

It depends on the strategy, the market traded, and current market conditions... which I think was being expressed by the previous posts.

[jpennybags 11]

What is a faster chart? a slower chart? Take for instance GC or 6E to illustrate.

Thanks

 

Take a 70T chart as an example. If you decrease the number of ticks by half (35T) the chart will print more bars. Likewise; if you double the number of ticks (140T) the chart will print fewer bars. 35T is going to be a faster chart than a 140T chart.

 

I trade the TF contract with various scalping strategies. During the opening 60-90 minutes of the regular session open I may run a 70T chart. As trading volume decreases I may speed up the chart to 40T. As the regular session close nears, and volume picks up, I may slow down the chart to 60T. Someone else trading a different strategy (even another scalper) may want to run an even faster chart... say 20T. We are both looking for an optimal speed that fits our strategy.

 

If you are familiar with the GC or 6E then I would invite you to experiment with different tick values. You'll learn more about tick charts by experimenting than from any lengthy explanation that I could provide.

[kuokam 10]

Thank you. Must do my home work.

 

Take a 70T chart as an example. If you decrease the number of ticks by half (35T) the chart will print more bars. Likewise; if you double the number of ticks (140T) the chart will print fewer bars. 35T is going to be a faster chart than a 140T chart.

 

I trade the TF contract with various scalping strategies. During the opening 60-90 minutes of the regular session open I may run a 70T chart. As trading volume decreases I may speed up the chart to 40T. As the regular session close nears, and volume picks up, I may slow down the chart to 60T. Someone else trading a different strategy (even another scalper) may want to run an even faster chart... say 20T. We are both looking for an optimal speed that fits our strategy.

 

If you are familiar with the GC or 6E then I would invite you to experiment with different tick values. You'll learn more about tick charts by experimenting than from any lengthy explanation that I could provide.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Thank you. Must do my home work.

 

Before you start, a word of advice. Actually, several words. If you don't know why price moves one way or another, it won't make the slightest difference whether you use 20t or 44t or 140t or 233t or 3675t.

 

If you do know why price moves one way or another, all you need is 1t. Anything else is a bar. And if you know why price moves, you know that price doesn't move in bars.

 

If you don't know why price moves one way or another, then you need . . . a 1t, in order to find out.

 

If you never figure it out, then you ought to find something else to do with your time and especially your money.

[kuokam 10]

Master's advice as always with the Phoenix .

Please correct me.

Why price moves? because buyers and sellers don't agree on the price at a level, so it has to move from that level till the one where the actors agree and a deal is made.

 

Now I don't understand how a 1 tick move can be representative of where price is headed. I have watched it some times and find them to be too choppy, more than a 1 min chart, which I find difficult to trade on, even when scalping.

 

 

Before you start, a word of advice. Actually, several words. If you don't know why price moves one way or another, it won't make the slightest difference whether you use 20t or 44t or 140t or 233t or 3675t.

 

If you do know why price moves one way or another, all you need is 1t. Anything else is a bar. And if you know why price moves, you know that price doesn't move in bars.

 

If you don't know why price moves one way or another, then you need . . . a 1t, in order to find out.

 

If you never figure it out, then you ought to find something else to do with your time and especially your money.

[DbPhoenix 42]

Master's advice as always with the Phoenix .

Please correct me.

Why price moves? because buyers and sellers don't agree on the price at a level, so it has to move from that level till the one where the actors agree and a deal is made.

 

Now I don't understand how a 1 tick move can be representative of where price is headed. I have watched it some times and find them to be too choppy, more than a 1 min chart, which I find difficult to trade on, even when scalping.

 

I wouldn't call it "Master's advice", just an acknowledgement of the reality of an auction market. No, a 1t move is not representative of where price is headed, but then neither is a tick bar, regardless of the number of ticks it represents. By following the trades, however, you will get a sense of what price is doing at the moment, which, if you're sensitive to it, will suggest where the support and resistance levels are and whether buyers or sellers are exerting the greater pressure. A tick chart is, after all, just a graphic representation of a time & sales display, which can be used as well.

[kuokam 10]

I think I hear you, but I do believe the probabilities of 2 1000 tick bars being followed by 1 1000t bar are greater and are more significant than those of 2 upticks being followed a another tick up.

 

 

I wouldn't call it "Master's advice", just an acknowledgement of the reality of an auction market. No, a 1t move is not representative of where price is headed, but then neither is a tick bar, regardless of the number of ticks it represents. By following the trades, however, you will get a sense of what price is doing at the moment, which, if you're sensitive to it, will suggest where the support and resistance levels are and whether buyers or sellers are exerting the greater pressure. A tick chart is, after all, just a graphic representation of a time & sales display, which can be used as well.

[DbPhoenix 42]

I think I hear you, but I do believe the probabilities of 2 1000 tick bars being followed by 1 1000t bar are grater and are more significant than those of 2 upticks being followed a another tick up.

 

If you're set up for 1kt bars, then the probability that any given set of bars is going to be followed by another of the same type is 100%, if that's all you expect, which has nothing to do with whether or not 2 rising ticks are going to be followed by another uptick. What is more important is the message you get from two upticks followed by an uptick rather than a down tick.

 

Which leads back to what you're looking for in the first place. If, for example, you're looking to trade breakouts thru resistance, then you'll watch the ticks to see where they stall and retreat, stall and retreat, stall and retreat. Then if and when they break through that level, there's your entry. This will depend in part on the activity level, i.e., is there a sudden increase in tick activity just before the next attempt to break through whatever level price stalled at? Or are the ticks just drifting aimlessly? If you follow bars that are aggregates of multiple ticks, not only will you not see any of this, you'll be too late to take the scalp, if that's what you want to do. If you decide to do more than scalp, then a time bar may be of greater benefit.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

You really just need to tinker with the setting till you get one that provides the most instances of your setup that end up profitable. Back testing along with forward testing is really the only way to get your answer. And if you don't have a setup yet that's the first step because to just trade on a whim or a chance will end up with you in the poor house. Get that setup with a nice risk to reward ratio and get testing.

 

On the YM for my setups I use 144 tick. The ES is usually about 10 times the volume so in theory 1440 tick would be best for me. Guess what, it doesn't match up so if I ever want to trade the ES I need to do my testing all over again. :o:crap:

 

Hi MC,

 

I'm not sure if you're confusing two slightly different things here. . .

 

A tick in the sense of your 144 tick chart has almost nothing to do with volume. A tick is the minimum fluctuation of price movement. So it doesn't matter whether a hundred or a thousand trades (volume) occurs, if price doesn't move the market won't 'tick'.

 

Volume at bid or ask ("volume delta") is often referred to as "Uptick Volume" and "Downtick Volume". This is to do with volume, naturally.

 

If you look at volume delta under a, say, 1 tick chart of the ES, you will see that the number of Uptick and Downtick transactions (volume at bid and ask) is typically far greater than 1, even though the chart is a one tick chart.

 

Hope that made sense and was helpful?

 

BlueHorseshoe

[DbPhoenix 42]

MC's post is six years old. He hasn't been around for a couple of years.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

MC's post is six years old. He hasn't been around for a couple of years.

 

Thanks - I hadn't noticed. Still, a conversation with a six year dead avatar is probably better than what's going on in most of the more current threads right now

 

Regards,

 

BlueHorseshoe