Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

jperl

Trading with Market Statistics XI. HUP

Recommended Posts

with the longer term HUP's such as 5,10, and 20 day,do you use a rolling time period or a fixed time?

 

I use the regular trading hours time period for the longer term HUP's although it really is not going to matter that much if you use 24 hour data since the overnight volume is usually not that large.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, thanks Jerry for providing such fantastic tools! I've been looking for a way to characterize the market in terms of statistics and this series of threads really cleared up a few things for me. I have a distribution related question - not HUP, but since you're active in this thread I thought I'd give it a shot here as it should be a relatively straightforward question.

 

In a normal distribution you get approx 68% of the observances in the 1st standard deviation. In a developing distribution, if I want to compute the % of observances within the first standard deviation, do I measure it from the VWAP +/- Std Deviation, or from the PVP (POC) +/- Std Deviation? Thanks for your input!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First, thanks Jerry for providing such fantastic tools! I've been looking for a way to characterize the market in terms of statistics and this series of threads really cleared up a few things for me. I have a distribution related question - not HUP, but since you're active in this thread I thought I'd give it a shot here as it should be a relatively straightforward question.

 

In a normal distribution you get approx 68% of the observances in the 1st standard deviation. In a developing distribution, if I want to compute the % of observances within the first standard deviation, do I measure it from the VWAP +/- Std Deviation, or from the PVP (POC) +/- Std Deviation? Thanks for your input!

 

You can compute the Std Dev with respect to any starting point, however when computed with respect to the VWAP you can show that this will yield the smallest SD possible. In a normal or symmetric distribution VWAP=PVP so computing the SD with respect to PVP would give you the same SD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jerry, how is your volume distribution function arrived at since you do not use MP? Of course I am referring back to your Trading With Market Statistics I. Volume Histogram; MP is a subset as you say. I have Ensign Windows with it's Price Histogram. How do I need to modify that program? Regards, Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jerry, how is your volume distribution function arrived at since you do not use MP? Of course I am referring back to your Trading With Market Statistics I. Volume Histogram; MP is a subset as you say. I have Ensign Windows with it's Price Histogram. How do I need to modify that program? Regards, Gary

 

On the price histogram study window, choose volume. The histogram will then be a volume distribution instead of a price distribution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you Jerry, then the time would be one day .... or longer?

 

You can set the volume histogram for any time period you like. A nice feature is the ability to show the histogram for just the visible bars on your chart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you Jerry, the volume histograms on your post of "Trading With Market Statistics I. Volume Histogram" are for that day's volume alone?

 

Yes, that is correct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jerry:

Greetings.

You have mentioned that we can select any number of days to draw the volume histogram including the choice of limiting the data to what is avilable on the current screen.

With this wide choice,, don't the PVP value change depending on volume histogram data ( 1day, or 2 day or current screen data)?

If the PVP value change based on the quantity of data , skew with VWAP also change based on quantity of data used. Given this varience, what is the ideal data period should we use to plot volume histogram and PVP, for day trading the index futures?

 

Appreciate your advise.

 

Regards,

 

Raj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Jerry and thank you for all the hard work, I've read and love your posts. Jerry, could you specify the differences between the the VWAP and the VWMA, and why one is better or more useful than the other. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Jerry:

Greetings.

You have mentioned that we can select any number of days to draw the volume histogram including the choice of limiting the data to what is avilable on the current screen.

With this wide choice,, don't the PVP value change depending on volume histogram data ( 1day, or 2 day or current screen data)?

If the PVP value change based on the quantity of data , skew with VWAP also change based on quantity of data used. Given this varience, what is the ideal data period should we use to plot volume histogram and PVP, for day trading the index futures?

 

Appreciate your advise.

 

Regards,

 

Raj

 

Raj, As a minimun, the amount of data should span a time period at least as long as the period over which you intend to trade. So if you are day trading, then you should have at least one days worth of previous data showing VWAP and volume histogram.

If you trade over a two or three day period, then you should have at least two or three days worth of data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello Jerry and thank you for all the hard work, I've read and love your posts. Jerry, could you specify the differences between the the VWAP and the VWMA, and why one is better or more useful than the other. Thank you.

 

The VWMA or volume weighted moving average is like any other moving average except it is weighted by volume. In practice what this means is that you have to choose a time period over which to compute the average. The problem with this, is you are always dropping the oldest data at the back of the average and adding new data at the front.

VWAP on the other hand, does not drop any of the data. It keeps adding data at the front.

Which is better? It depends on your point of view. To me, the VWAP and the histogram from which it is derived provides a clearer picture of the overall statistics of the market. The VWMA and its histogram may have no statistical significance depending on its time frame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Jerry:

 

Thanks for your immediate response.

 

Just to clarify your reply, suppose I start day trading say on Wednesday morning, then I should set my Volume Histogram indicator to plot the summation of Tuesday & wednesday's data as the day progress?

 

Appreciate your advise.

 

Regards,

 

Raj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Jerry:

Greetings.

You have mentioned that we can select any number of days to draw the volume histogram including the choice of limiting the data to what is avilable on the current screen.

With this wide choice,, don't the PVP value change depending on volume histogram data ( 1day, or 2 day or current screen data)?

If the PVP value change based on the quantity of data , skew with VWAP also change based on quantity of data used. Given this varience, what is the ideal data period should we use to plot volume histogram and PVP, for day trading the index futures?

 

Appreciate your advise.

 

Regards,

 

Raj

 

Raj another way to look at things is from the point of view of the size of moves you want to capture and your risk tolerance. As the distance between VWAP & SD deviation is a measure of volatility and also the minimum size move you might anticipate you can 'tune things' with respect to what you would like to achieve.

 

Edit: hopefully that gives some clues to your follow up question the basic, scalp and swing trading threads have similar characteristics the main difference being the sample size and hence the magnitude (between bands) and the time taken to complete that movement (50 point moves tend to take longer than 5 tick moves after all). Pick what suits you. (I think Jerry mentionde his favourite, can't remember tbh).

Edited by BlowFish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just to clarify your reply, suppose I start day trading say on Wednesday morning, then I should set my Volume Histogram indicator to plot the summation of Tuesday & wednesday's data as the day progress?

 

 

As a minimun, yes. At the start of Wednesday, you don't have any statistical data to examine. So as a minimum you should have Tuesday's data available and add to it as the new day progresses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jerry,

 

First of all, thanks for all of your very educational posts. I really appreciate it. Questions on HUP's.......

 

 

Taking out previous day's VWAP and PVP's, wouldn't it be effective to look at previous day(s) volume distributions and look for areas of acceptance and rejection as high probability targets as well?

 

Seems like to me those areas would be the most likely to be HUP's since price has price has some definitive volume history at those places.........

 

So ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why not put priority on previous day(s) VWAP, PVP and places of acceptance and rejection as measured by volume?

 

Thanks again,

 

Traderwolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jperl,

 

Thanks for all of you very educational posts.. Question for you on HUP......

 

 

At the start of a day, I understand to use previous day VWAP and PVP's as HUP's. But would the next best source of HUP's be places in previous days or weeks where price was rejected or accepted as noted by high volume or low volume areas? High volume areas would represent places where price was accepted and low volume areas would be places where price was rejected.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

Traderwolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jperl,

 

Thanks for all of you very educational posts.. Question for you on HUP......

 

 

At the start of a day, I understand to use previous day VWAP and PVP's as HUP's. But would the next best source of HUP's be places in previous days or weeks where price was rejected or accepted as noted by high volume or low volume areas? High volume areas would represent places where price was accepted and low volume areas would be places where price was rejected.

 

 

Traderwolf

 

Yes of course, you may use any defined HUP's you like, but don't mix apples with oranges. Be consistent. Use the same HUP's from day to day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glad to see you are still around Jerry! Hope life's treating you well. :)

 

Yes, I'm still here answering the same questions over and over and over....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 4th April 2025.   USDJPY Falls to 25-Week Low as Safe Havens Surge and Markets Eye NFP Data.   Safe haven currencies and the traditional alternative to the US Dollar continue to increase in value while the Dollar declines. Investors traditionally opt to invest in the Japanese Yen and Swiss Franc at times of uncertainty and when they wish to avoid the Dollar. The Japanese Yen continues to be the best-performing currency of the week and of the day. Will this continue to be the case after today’s US employment figures?   USDJPY - NFP Data And Trade Negotiations The USDJPY is currently trading at a 25-week low and is witnessing one of its strongest declines this week. The exchange rate is no longer obtaining indications from the RSI that the price is oversold. The current bullish swing is obtaining indications of divergence as the price fails to form a higher high. Therefore, short-term momentum is in favour of the US Dollar, but there are still signs the Japanese Yen can regain momentum quickly.       USDJPY 1-Hour Chart     The price movement of the exchange rate in both the short and long term will depend on 3 factors. Today’s US employment data, next week’s inflation rate and most importantly the progress of negotiations between the US and trade partners. If today’s Unemployment Rate increases above 4.1%, the reading will be the highest seen so far in 2025. Currently, the market expects the Unemployment Rate to remain at 4.1% and the Non-Farm Payroll Change to add 137,000 jobs. The average NFP reading this year so far has been 194,000.   If data does not meet expectations, US investors may continue to increase exposure away from the Dollar and to other safe-haven assets. Previously investors were expecting only 2 rate cuts this year from the Federal Reserve, however, most investors now expect up to 4. If today’s employment data deteriorates, economists advise the Federal Reserve may opt to cut interest rates sooner.   Therefore, it is important to note that today’s NFP will influence the USDJPY to a large extent. Whereas in the longer-term, trade negotiations will steal the spotlight. If trade partners are able to negotiate the US Dollar can correct back upwards. Whereas, if other countries retaliate and do not negotiate the US Dollar will remain weak.   USDJPY - The Yen and the Bank of Japan The Japanese Yen is the best-performing currency in 2025 increasing by 6.70% so far. Risk indicators such as the VIX and High-Low Indexes continue to worsen which is positive for the JPY as a safe haven currency.   Yesterday Japan released March business activity data that came in weaker than expected: the Services PMI dropped from 53.7 to 50.0, while the Composite PMI fell from 52.0 to 48.9. The data is the lowest in two years. These figures could hinder further interest rate hikes by the Bank of Japan. However, most economists still expect the Bank Of Japan to hike at least once more. It's also important to note, that even if the BOJ opts for a prolonged pause, a cut is not likely.   Additionally, a 24% tariff was imposed on Japanese exports to the US yesterday. Prime Minister Mr Ishiba expressed disappointment over Japan's failure to secure a tariff exemption and pledged support measures to help domestic industries manage the impact.   Key Takeaway Points: US Dollar Weakens, Safe Havens Rise: The Japanese Yen and Swiss Franc continue to gain as investors shift away from the US Dollar. USDJPY Under Pressure: USDJPY trades at a 25-week low, with short-term momentum favouring the Dollar but long-term trends pointing to potential Yen strength. NFP and Unemployment Crucial: Today’s Non-Farm Payrolls and unemployment figures will heavily influence short-term USDJPY. On the other hand, trade negotiations will dictate longer-term trends. Japan Faces Mixed Signals: Despite weak PMI data and new US tariffs, the Japanese Yen remains strong. Economists expect at least one more rate hike from the Bank of Japan, but no cuts are in sight. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • YUM Yum Brands stock, nice breakout with volume +34.5%, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?YUM
    • Date: 3rd April 2025.   Gold Prices Pull Back After Record High as Traders Eye Trump’s Tariffs.   Key Takeaways:   Gold prices retreated after hitting a record high of $3,167.57 per ounce due to profit-taking. President Trump announced a 10% baseline tariff on all US imports, escalating trade tensions. Gold remains exempt from reciprocal tariffs, reinforcing its safe-haven appeal. Investors await US non-farm payroll data for further market direction. Fed rate cut bets and weaker US Treasury yields underpin gold’s bullish outlook. Gold Prices Retreat from Record Highs Amid Profit-Taking Gold prices saw a pullback on Thursday as traders opted to take profits following a historic surge. Spot gold declined 0.4% to $3,122.10 per ounce as of 0710 GMT, retreating from its fresh all-time high of $3,167.57. Meanwhile, US gold futures slipped 0.7% to $3,145.00 per ounce, reflecting broader market uncertainty over economic and geopolitical developments.   The recent rally was largely fueled by concerns over escalating trade tensions after President Donald Trump unveiled sweeping new import tariffs. The 10% baseline tariff on all goods entering the US further deepened the global trade conflict, intensifying investor demand for safe-haven assets like gold. However, as traders locked in gains from the surge, prices saw a modest retracement.   Trump’s Tariffs and Their Market Implications On Wednesday, Trump introduced a sweeping tariff policy imposing a 10% baseline duty on all imports, with significantly higher tariffs on select nations. While this move was aimed at bolstering domestic manufacturing, it sent shockwaves across global markets, fueling inflation concerns and heightening trade war fears.   Gold’s Role Amid Trade War Escalations Despite the widespread tariff measures, the White House clarified that reciprocal tariffs do not apply to gold, energy, and ‘certain minerals that are not available in the US’. This exemption suggests that central banks and institutional investors may continue favouring gold as a hedge against economic instability. One of the key factors supporting gold is the slowdown that these tariffs could cause in the US economy, which raises the likelihood of future Federal Reserve rate cuts. Gold is currently in a pure momentum trade. Market participants are on the sidelines and until we see a significant shakeout, this momentum could persist.   Impact on the US Dollar and Bond Yields Gold prices typically move inversely to the US dollar, and the latest developments have pushed the dollar to its weakest level since October 2024. Market participants are increasingly pricing in the possibility of a Fed rate cut, as the tariffs could weigh on economic growth.   Additionally, US Treasury yields have plummeted, reflecting growing recession fears. Lower bond yields reduce the opportunity cost of holding non-yielding assets like gold, making it a more attractive investment.         Technical Analysis: Key Levels to Watch Gold’s recent rally has pushed it into overbought territory, with the Relative Strength Index (RSI) above 70. This indicates a potential short-term pullback before the uptrend resumes. The immediate support level lies at $3,115, aligning with the Asian session low. A further decline could bring gold towards the $3,100 psychological level, which has previously acted as a strong support zone. Below this, the $3,076–$3,057 region represents a critical weekly support range where buyers may re-enter the market. In the event of a more significant correction, $3,000 stands as a major psychological floor.   On the upside, gold faces immediate resistance at $3,149. A break above this level could signal renewed bullish momentum, potentially leading to a retest of the record high at $3,167. If bullish momentum persists, the next target is the $3,200 psychological barrier, which could pave the way for further gains. Despite the recent pullback, the broader trend remains bullish, with dips likely to be viewed as buying opportunities.   Looking Ahead: Non-Farm Payrolls and Fed Policy Traders are closely monitoring Friday’s US non-farm payrolls (NFP) report, which could provide critical insights into the Federal Reserve’s next policy moves. A weaker-than-expected jobs report may strengthen expectations for an interest rate cut, further boosting gold prices.   Other key economic data releases, such as jobless claims and the ISM Services PMI, may also impact market sentiment in the short term. However, with rising geopolitical uncertainties, trade tensions, and a weakening US dollar, gold’s safe-haven appeal remains strong.   Conclusion: While short-term profit-taking may trigger minor corrections, gold’s long-term outlook remains bullish. As global trade tensions mount and the Federal Reserve leans toward a more accommodative stance, gold could see further gains in the months ahead.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • AMZN Amazon stock, nice buying at the 187.26 triple+ support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?AMZN
    • DELL Dell Technologies stock, good day moving higher off the 90.99 double support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?DELL
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.