Greeks

[jim2000 10]

My brokers option chains don't include the Greeks.

 

Does anyone know if there is anyplace where I can go to look at option chains with Greeks included?

[aiki14 10]

My brokers option chains don't include the Greeks.

 

Does anyone know if there is anyplace where I can go to look at option chains with Greeks included?

 

You can add the puts and calls yourself and get a price for any combination. You're always going to pay the premiums anyway. Some brokers will give you a discount if you buy a straddle but I don't think any are going to give you a break on a condor or other exotic combination.

[jim2000 10]

I'm not sure I understand. Maybe I didn't phrase my question right.

 

I have seen option chains that have included, for example, a column for Delta. Showing delta for each strike. The option chain I get through my broker doesn't have this and I was wondering if there was a site where I could view option chains with the greeks for each strike price?

[aiki14 10]

Here's a good start for all things options

http://www.cboe.com/

 

another site I like

http://www.optionmonster.com/#action=home

[darthtrader 10]

try the think or swim demo, its just 20 min delayed but free. It has everything you need.

[aiki14 10]

I'm not sure I understand. Maybe I didn't phrase my question right.

 

I have seen option chains that have included, for example, a column for Delta. Showing delta for each strike. The option chain I get through my broker doesn't have this and I was wondering if there was a site where I could view option chains with the greeks for each strike price?

 

Sorry, your question was fine, my answer was poor. See my other post for places to go.

[jim2000 10]

Thanks to both of you.

[james_gsx 16]

Excuse my ignorance, but how important are the Greeks when you're doing a short term play?

 

For example, let's say I wanted to utilize options for a swing play instead of an ES contract I could setup an options play using SPY or the options backing the ES. Would it really be crucial to look at all the Greeks?

 

I'm not saying I shouldn't learn them, I have been doing that but I am just curious about how relevant they are for such a short term play (like 3 days).

[aiki14 10]

Excuse my ignorance, but how important are the Greeks when you're doing a short term play?

 

For example, let's say I wanted to utilize options for a swing play instead of an ES contract I could setup an options play using SPY or the options backing the ES. Would it really be crucial to look at all the Greeks?

 

I'm not saying I shouldn't learn them, I have been doing that but I am just curious about how relevant they are for such a short term play (like 3 days).

 

I don't play the index options other than as portfolio protection, so the greeks are not important to me. I don't see how they would be particularly relevant in your swing.

 

If your using options to protect a stock position they're of limited importance at best. If your using an options only strategy (combinations, long and short etc) they are more important in determining strategy (which combination makes the best bet), price and time variables, and entry and exit points. If you are buying options in lieu of stock positions (buy a call or put) to make use of leverage, the value in the greeks is to help determine which strike has the best premium value. And if you want to arbitrage the difference between premiums the greeks are of value. IMHO

[darthtrader 10]

great post aiki14.

James, you should just get Natenburgs book. If your just going to straight out buy options, as aiki said, without the greeks you don't really know what is the better value on the chain. If the underlying is at 65 and your betting it will go to 70, it still might make more sense to buy the ATM 65 calls as opposed to the OTM 70 calls depending on the greeks.

You might want to get into option station for TS, i've never read much on that though. http://www.optionvue.com/ looks pretty sick too.

[aiki14 10]

I may have posted this already but "The complete options player" by Ken Trester is pretty good but more of a textbook than an easy to read treatise.

[TinGull 10]

I agree with aiki14. The greeks aren't going to be as important to you if you're doing a 3-5 day swing. When I put on spreads that last for 30-50 days...then they're important to me. I'm still learning how to utilize the greeks for adjustment purposes rather than just using price alone, though...I don't know if that's really a necessary thing for how I trade. It might be later on down the line.

 

As for who to use...I use thinkorswim. OptionVue is cool, but pricey and you can get tons of the same stuff on ToS for free. ToS is a realllllly awesome company that constantly makes improvements to their software, so definitely check them out.

[james_gsx 16]

Thanks guys, I'm still learning about Greeks because I think they can be a very valuable tool for some of my investments. For example over the summer I had several oil stocks that were making great money, but days that oil fell those stocks fell hard. It would have been great if I had a protective put to add some insurance, but I would have had no idea what I was doing.

[jim2000 10]

Delta tells you how much the price of the option will move in relation to the underlying security. e.g. if delta is .98, and the stock moves up $1.00, then the option should move up Approx. $0.98.

 

If using options to buy stock cheaper with more leverage, stick with high delta strikes. i.e. above .90

 

Also, in general stick with in-the-money options. The out-of-the-money options are cheaper but they typically have lower deltas and less chance to appreciate.

 

As an example, for fun and pure speculation I bought some OTM MSFT NOV 40calls for cheap. MSFT went up today $1/share however my calls stayed the same, went nowhere. Now if microsoft were to rally big in the next couple weeks, that would be great, but it was a cheap gamble.

[TinGull 10]

Buying the NOV 40 calls is purely time premium at this point in the cycle and you've got no intrinsic value in those options. Even if MSFT were to move much higher but remain below 40, you're not going to see that option move. Remember, the last 20 days your time decay is impacting the option price the most dramatically.

[jim2000 10]

Buying the NOV 40 calls is purely time premium at this point in the cycle and you've got no intrinsic value in those options. Even if MSFT were to move much higher but remain below 40, you're not going to see that option move. Remember, the last 20 days your time decay is impacting the option price the most dramatically.

 

I did unload these today for 100%. However, with commission and fees I didn't net much cash. Bought at .04 sold at .08.

 

I might try TradeKing for their low rates.

[TinGull 10]

How much do you pay per side on an options contract now?

[jim2000 10]

How much do you pay per side on an options contract now?

 

Per side I pay 7.00 + 1.25 per contract.

[TinGull 10]

Wow...7 dollars then a per side? Who do you trade thru?

[jim2000 10]

Wow...7 dollars then a per side? Who do you trade thru?

 

Scottrade.

[TinGull 10]

That's why he flies a helicopter...

 

Look into ThinkorSwim. They'll chart like 2 or 3 bucks a side, but if you tell them you REALLLLLLLLY want to trade through them but you need a bit better commission structure...say 1.50 a side...see what they say.

[jim2000 10]

Haha. I will look into ThinkorSwim. Thanks.

 

In addition to the high fees, they also restrict trading to buy puts and calls, and sell covered calls.

[aiki14 10]

That's why he flies a helicopter...

 

Look into ThinkorSwim. They'll chart like 2 or 3 bucks a side, but if you tell them you REALLLLLLLLY want to trade through them but you need a bit better commission structure...say 1.50 a side...see what they say.

 

Thats a lot better than E*Trade or Merrill. Thanks

[TinGull 10]

Yea, ToS is all about teaching you what the more complex strategies are and letting you trade them without having to go through the crap of different "levels". They have great education to back up everything they offer.

[jim2000 10]

Yea, ToS is all about teaching you what the more complex strategies are and letting you trade them without having to go through the crap of different "levels". They have great education to back up everything they offer.

 

I downloaded the TOS trading platform and like it.

 

Have you TinGull or anyone traded futures on TOS? I see from their website that futures trading is available.