Beleifs about Trading

[Adamned 10]

I have been trading nearly three years. I am making a living at this business but defintily not a super living by monetary standards. I do extract great fun from trading but I definitly can't call it a great success. I have been preparing a year end evaluation this past month to propel me forward into the coming new year. My mind seems to be gravitating to a new direction in my trading. I would really apreciate it someone could share with me their thoughts about this.

 

I basically can call my self a scalper. Thats pretty much all I do, scalp the ES or Nq. To get to the point I'm thinking about changing my approach to the market. My current approach to the markets its best summed up by the quote in the market wizards book about how the cheetha hunts. Waiting and waiting for the perfect kill and striking in and out fast. But after doing this for years this type of game isn't cutting it for me. My mind is moving to more of an approach that Mark Dougals calls Trading like a Casino. This means having a much larger sample size and letting the edge play out. Another good metaphor is I currently trade like swiss watch maker, a man that takes his craft very seriously and aims for pure perfection. But the question is? Is this best path? Maybe it would be much better for me to become a quartz watch maker.

 

Finally this is what I think I want to do to move forward. I want to put an end for the most part to my scalping. Implement a mean reversion strategy that aims to extract more points with ofcourse much more money behind each trade, to make it worthwhile doing this type of method. The serious cons of this method is waiting for the edge to come to succesful completion and the requirement of a much larger stop. In my mind this seems much more like a real business rather than a tactical game which scalping is. I've been around the markets long enough to realize that large sums of money is there for the taking in the market but not possible in scalping at least not for me. If anyone can assist me with this serious decison I would really appreciate any advice. Thank you very much and good trading to all.

[OAC 10]

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Why can't you make big money from scalping ? The key is really consistency.

If you can consistenly make one ES point day after day, you simply raise the number of contracts ten-fold. Before embarking on a new swinging type of strategy, I recommend you analyze every single one of your scalp trades in the past year in reference to different factor as: time of day, type of day, breakout, trending vs congestion, degree of volatility , or any other factors that you can come up with. I believe this process will benefit you greatly.

Surely mean-reversion strategies may be nice. Like anything else, it takes time to achieve a degree of mastery.

[Reaver 10]

Scalping scares me. I definitely respect anyone that can make money consistently doing it.

[OAC 10]

And don't fall into the "Grass is Greener On the Other Side" sydrome.

People that say you can't are people that don't know how.

Hey Reaver, how can you tell which way the market is going by reading a bunch of letters ?:haha:

[Reaver 10]

They could be smiley faces instead of letters for all I care, you follow the distribution. Among other things. Didn't say scalping couldn't be done...but I personally am not going to compete with pit traders while sitting many miles away on a computer..simply my opinion...I also offered my respect to anyone who does that and succeeds!

 

I also use standard TA of course....more than one way to skin a cat, remember?

[Reaver 10]

Dude I was just messing with you, no hard feelings man. lol

 

I got busy and forgot to come back and mention that part. heh heh

[walterw 10]

If anyone can assist me with this serious decison I would really appreciate any advice. Thank you very much and good trading to all.

 

Hi Adamned... I understand somehow your experience as I think we all did go thru that type of situations at some stage...

 

The casino thing... my advice is to drop it... martingale type of money managment do not work at a professional level, it may be a fun game for some time but eventually you will not succeed with it...

 

Being profesional on this game first means having decided where your arena will be... this decision principally its related to instrument and time frame... will you play futures, forex, stocks, options etc... then will you scalp, daytrade or play long term...

 

Any of this decisions DO NOT give you an edge... you may loose or win on any product, any time frame... changing them does not create any true edge...

 

Where is the edge ? your setups in relation to the market conditions... if you get to the point of "understanding" market conditions, and you have the apropiate setups for each of them... plus a superb clean timing tool.... most probably you are more near to be in bussiness...

 

here at TL there is lots of diferent aproaches, we got market profile, market statistics, candles, vma`s, price action formed setups... you name it... all of them are succesfull techniques if applied on the right market condition and keeping things as clean as possible...

 

hope you find here something of usefull aplication... we are here to help... cheers The Chimp.

[Reaver 10]

Hi Adamned... I understand somehow your experience as I think we all did go thru that type of situations at some stage...

 

The casino thing... my advice is to drop it... martingale type of money managment do not work at a professional level, it may be a fun game for some time but eventually you will not succeed with it...

 

Being profesional on this game first means having decided where your arena will be... this decision principally its related to instrument and time frame... will you play futures, forex, stocks, options etc... then will you scalp, daytrade or play long term...

 

Any of this decisions DO NOT give you an edge... you may loose or win on any product, any time frame... changing them does not create any true edge...

 

Where is the edge ? your setups in relation to the market conditions... if you get to the point of "understanding" market conditions, and you have the apropiate setups for each of them... plus a superb clean timing tool.... most probably you are more near to be in bussiness...

 

here at TL there is lots of diferent aproaches, we got market profile, market statistics, candles, vma`s, price action formed setups... you name it... all of them are succesfull techniques if applied on the right market condition and keeping things as clean as possible...

 

hope you find here something of usefull aplication... we are here to help... cheers The Chimp.

 

That should be a sticky.

 

Outstanding post Walter!

[OAC 10]

Walter, what do you mean by "superbclean timingtools" exactly ?

Adamnet said that he is like a cheetah, isn't that good enough ?

[Reaver 10]

Cheetahs are only fast for a very limited time and then they tire out, totally exhausted and weak...and very vulnerable. Not good qualities for a trader...

[ranj 10]

Adamned,

 

Enhancing Trader Performance: Proven Strategies From the Cutting Edge of Trading Psychology

 

Helped me figure out who I was and what types of trading style best fit me. Since doing that self analysis trading has become easier.

 

Good Luck

Rajiv

[walterw 10]

Walter, what do you mean by "superbclean timingtools" exactly ?

Adamnet said that he is like a cheetah, isn't that good enough ?

 

 

there is a set of tools that help to time your trades with less noise and at the same time leading... not suitable for everybody... but helps left brained people like me.. cheers Walter.

[Jakew 10]

Who says Michael Douglas lesson doesn't apply to any style and timeframe...

 

Scalping is for scalpers. You need to love it. Otherwise it will wear you out. Finding one's timeframe - plus what Walter said - is the key factor.

 

J.Carter said everybody below 10 years experience is a... - I don't remember the word something like a novice anyway - in this game and I can say you can't really state your problem yet. Good luck.

[Reaver 10]

Who says Michael Douglas lesson doesn't apply to any style and timeframe...

 

Scalping is for scalpers. You need to love it. Otherwise it will wear you out. Finding one's timeframe - plus what Walter said - is the key factor.

 

J.Carter said everybody below 10 years experience is a... - I don't remember the word something like a novice anyway - in this game and I can say you can't really state your problem yet. Good luck.

 

If you have 10 years to be novice at scalping...then you just have too much money..plain and simple...

[Reaver 10]

there is a set of tools that help to time your trades with less noise and at the same time leading... not suitable for everybody... but helps left brained people like me.. cheers Walter.

 

 

I agree, the VMA info is excellent.....

[Jakew 10]

If you have 10 years to be novice at scalping...then you just have too much money..plain and simple...

 

 

 

Reaver, belive me not every trader is as lucky as you to start and end the search for his timeframe in the proper timeframe, e.g. the scalping one:))

[Reaver 10]

LOL no man I didn't mean it like that. ha ha

 

I just meant that from my understanding scalping the wrong way is a quick way to lose tons of money...then having enough capital to learn that method for 10 years, means you're filthy rich!

 

ha ha

 

I'm definitely not lucky, I am still learning my butt off. I am always experimenting with different things and timeframes. Sorry to come off sounding crazy.

[MC 10]

Who says Michael Douglas lesson doesn't apply to any style and timeframe...

 

Scalping is for scalpers. You need to love it. Otherwise it will wear you out. Finding one's timeframe - plus what Walter said - is the key factor.

 

J.Carter said everybody below 10 years experience is a... - I don't remember the word something like a novice anyway - in this game and I can say you can't really state your problem yet. Good luck.

 

"Fresh Meat" is what J Carter calls people with below 10 years experience.

[Jakew 10]

Thank you MCichocki

 

Reaver you are still missing the point, but no problem.

 

As far as experience is concerned, I suppose up to 3 years is the begining in trading, not necessarily the scalping technique (when - by the way - most challengers will quit), and above 10 years is the time when you reap really rich rewards. Between 3 and 10 there is - more often than not - the so called consistent profitability.

[Reaver 10]

"Fresh Meat" is what J Carter calls people with below 10 years experience.

 

John Carter has a few questionable things in his trading background as well......at least from my knowledge.

 

I do not believe it takes 10 years to be an excellent trader.

 

It really depends on who you are,

 

There are some musicians who pick up guitar and within a couple years have a record deal and are famous...look at Kenney Chesney, he didn't start playing until he was in college and shortly after was a world famous musician....other people play their whole lives and are mediocre.

 

There is no specific time period.

 

A soldier is made in a few months, yes, it takes a little longer to truly become a meat eater....but I guarantee you, if you stick a greenhorn in Iraq straight out of bootcamp, he will be eating concertina wire and pissing napalm within a few months...or he'll be dead.

 

An extreme example, but the point is...the speed at which you learn depends on how seriously you take it. There is no final and ultimate mastery or omniscience in the markets....one will always be increasing their knowledge, but the point where one is a bad ass in trading will be reached relatively quickly if you take it serious enough.....ie when you run the risk of dying you generally take something seriously, whereas if it's winning or losing a few bucks, people generally have to force themselves to take it as seriously as possible.

 

It boils down to discipline. Treat your finances as if it were your life.

 

A quote that has stuck with me:

 

"When you relate to things in your life as though your life were at stake, you will experience a sense of certainty, calmness, freedom and peace of mind IN THE FACE OF chaos, no security and no guarantees in life! Life becomes rich."

[MC 10]

John Carter has a few questionable things in his trading background as well......at least from my knowledge.

 

I do not believe it takes 10 years to be an excellent trader.

 

....other people play their whole lives and are mediocre.

 

There is no specific time period.

 

What like selling code for big bucks that TL has for free? (Thank you guys a ton that program those indicators for us:))

 

I couldn't agree more with the above. I think 10 years is a milestone but by no means do you need 10 years in to be a "pro". In fact I'd say if it takes you 10 years to get the concept of the market you might not be cut out for it and certainly a slow learner.

 

The sooner you learn how to play like the 10+ year "pros" the quicker you might join the ranks as a pro. There can be no time frame as we are all different and learn at different paces. It's been proven that genetics and upbringing play a role in how well some manage risk/reward ratios. I believe it was 60 minutes that did a special on how successful people (not pro gamblers just successful business people) smashed average Joes at the casino on straight gambling with poker for example. Success is more a mindset than a skill it seems. If you can't mimic those brainwaves and emulate success by changing your emotions, odds are against you.

 

Great conversation here guys.

[Jakew 10]

Reaver; A quote that has stuck with me:

 

"When you relate to things in your life as though your life were at stake, you will experience a sense of certainty, calmness, freedom and peace of mind IN THE FACE OF chaos, no security and no guarantees in life! Life becomes rich."

 

 

Yes, and we all love it. As far as years...there are Mozarts of trading, of course

[Reaver 10]

What like selling code for big bucks that TL has for free? (Thank you guys a ton that program those indicators for us:))

 

I couldn't agree more with the above. I think 10 years is a milestone but by no means do you need 10 years in to be a "pro". In fact I'd say if it takes you 10 years to get the concept of the market you might not be cut out for it and certainly a slow learner.

 

The sooner you learn how to play like the 10+ year "pros" the quicker you might join the ranks as a pro. There can be no time frame as we are all different and learn at different paces. It's been proven that genetics and upbringing play a role in how well some manage risk/reward ratios. I believe it was 60 minutes that did a special on how successful people (not pro gamblers just successful business people) smashed average Joes at the casino on straight gambling with poker for example. Success is more a mindset than a skill it seems. If you can't mimic those brainwaves and emulate success by changing your emotions, odds are against you.

 

Great conversation here guys.

 

Exactly, that is pretty much what I am trying to say....

 

In all seriousness, there are those who are born with the genetics to be ripped and have a six pack without even working out, and then there are those that no matter how hard they try, they have a mediocre physique...

 

Logically, the same thing would apply to mentality as well...some can just "get it" while others cannot, or at least it takes a much more concentrated effort.