So who do you think will be the next president of the USA?

[WHY? 16]

I didn't recall hearing about his indictment for that. A code is not a legal requirement. You are illiterate apparently.

 

Well, maybe we'll have someone come along that's deaf and we'll have the three monkeys.

 

 

I never said I was voting for Obama, I was making a point.

 

From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access

[wais.access.gpo.gov]

[Laws in effect as of January 3, 2005]

[Document not affected by Public Laws enacted between

January 3, 2005 and October 30, 2006]

[CITE: 36USC301]

 

 

TITLE 36--PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, AND

ORGANIZATIONS

 

Subtitle I--Patriotic and National Observances and Ceremonies

 

Part A--Observances and Ceremonies

 

CHAPTER 3--NATIONAL ANTHEM, MOTTO, FLORAL EMBLEM \1\ MARCH, AND TREE

 

Sec. 301. National anthem

 

(a) Designation.--The composition consisting of the words and music

known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.--During a rendition of the national

anthem--

(1) when the flag is displayed--

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at

attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with

their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder,

the hand being over the heart; and

© individuals in uniform should give the military salute

at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until

the last note; and

 

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face

toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag

were displayed.

 

(Pub. L. 105-225, Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1263.)

 

Historical and Revision Notes

 

Notice above it says Laws in Effect as of Jan 2005. Laws!

 

It is the same place where you find Title 26 and 26A the US code (laws) for IRS and the ones they will use against you in a court of law. So Mr Reaver me thinks any presidential candidate that would openly flaunt his disrespect has no business being the leader of our country, IMO. Now who is illiterate??

[WHY? 16]

United States Code

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

The United States Code (U.S.C.) is a compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal law of the United States.

[WHY? 16]

He should have been pulled off the stage and led away in handcuffs

[WHY? 16]

Right now,

 

I like Obama and Ron Paul....Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian in 1988 I believe....I like what he has to say about taxes,etc....

 

Obama, I like him because he keeps it real. He hasn't had a chance to be corrupted by the political system...

 

Who do I think will win?

 

Hell...I can't really even answer my own question...there are so many variables at play.

You like him but you won't vote for him ...eh??? Yeh he keeps it real all right. Publically show just how much he disrespects our laws and our country.

[WHY? 16]

First the Law:

 

 

 

4 USC Sec. 7 01/02/2006

 

-EXPCITE-

 

TITLE 4 - FLAG AND SEAL, SEAT OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE STATES

 

CHAPTER 1 - THE FLAG

 

-HEAD-

 

Sec. 7. Position and manner of display

 

-STATUTE-

 

(f) When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of

 

societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United

 

States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are

 

flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be

 

hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be

 

placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States

 

flag's right.

 

 

Now HERE is a REAL American that loves their country and knows the law!! Obama apparently scores "0" on both!

 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57960

[Reaver 10]

Please find me the sentencing guidelines for violation of this "law".

 

 

Oh, there are none?

[WHY? 16]

Please find me the sentencing guidelines for violation of this "law".

 

 

Oh, there are none?

That would be for a court of law to decide. How old are you reaver? IT IS LAW

[Reaver 10]

So I guess this Mr Scarborough is a real American as well?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=658_1185903108

 

You have to remember..my love for this country is not on trial, I have fought for it..have you?

 

I am making the point, that if put on trial in the Supreme Court, the first amendment will supersede any of the "codes" you are posting.

 

You say what you want, but like I said, it is not ILLEGAL. Post the sentencing guidelines for this violation please.

 

You can't even enforce the saying of the pledge of allegiance in public schools anymore..trust me, no one is going to arrest Mr Obama for not placing his hand on his heart.

[Reaver 10]

That would be for a court of law to decide. How old are you reaver? IT IS LAW

 

There are always sentencing guidelines...

[Reaver 10]

I said I like Ron Paul too...if you would read the full post before talking.

[WHY? 16]

LOL try pulling the amendment stuff on title 26 and 26a of the same USC. against the IRS and see if that will fly in a court of law. Some of tried the amendment deal with IRS. Guess where they are at?? In prison!! IT IS THE LAW and HE should have been arrested or cited for it. THIS IS FEDERAL CODE reaver.

[Reaver 10]

From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access

[wais.access.gpo.gov]

[Laws in effect as of January 3, 2005]

[Document not affected by Public Laws enacted between

January 3, 2005 and October 30, 2006]

[CITE: 36USC301]

 

 

TITLE 36--PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, AND

ORGANIZATIONS

 

Subtitle I--Patriotic and National Observances and Ceremonies

 

Part A--Observances and Ceremonies

 

CHAPTER 3--NATIONAL ANTHEM, MOTTO, FLORAL EMBLEM \1\ MARCH, AND TREE

 

Sec. 301. National anthem

 

(a) Designation.--The composition consisting of the words and music

known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.--During a rendition of the national

anthem--

(1) when the flag is displayed--

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at

attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;

 

Okey dokey....so...who in that picture is standing at attention? Go ahead, I am waiting. Oh, also..wonder what flag ol' Hillary is facing? hmmm what about Mr Richardson? I am getting confused here, I was under the impression it was required BY LAW to face the flag and stand at attention!!?? Gee willikers!

 

 

So "WHY?" are you just bashing Obama, or are you gonna bash everyone else in the picture for breaking the "law"?

[WHY? 16]

You have to remember..my love for this country is not on trial, I have fought for it..have you?

The you ought to be the more upset about it. But, no, instead you apparently think NOTHING is wrong with what he is doing????

[WHY? 16]

....so...who in that picture is standing at attention? Go ahead, I am waiting. Oh, also..wonder what flag ol' Hillary is facing? hmmm what about Mr Richardson? I am getting confused here, I was under the impression it was required BY LAW to face the flag and stand at attention!!?? Gee willikers!

 

 

So "WHY?" are you just bashing Obama, or are you gonna bash everyone else in the picture for breaking the "law"?

Well it may not be the best stand but at least they tried. Obama stands with his hands clasped near his.....well you get the idea. They were probably facing a flag where the music was coming from. Is that so hard to figure out reaver???? You don't face a poster flag. You face THE flag.

This is going no where. so I am off this thread but IT IS LAW AND HE SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED A CITATION

 

Good night.

[Reaver 10]

Well it may not be the best stand but at least they tried. Obama stands with his hands clasped near his.....well you get the idea. They were probably facing a flag where the music was coming from. Is that so hard to figure out reaver???? You don't face a poster flag. You face THE flag.

This is going no where. so I am off this thread but IT IS LAW AND HE SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED A CITATION

 

Good night.

 

 

Oh they "probably" were...oh...uh...okay..I see....

[Reaver 10]

Well it may not be the best stand but at least they tried. Obama stands with his hands clasped near his.....well you get the idea. They were probably facing a flag where the music was coming from. Is that so hard to figure out reaver???? You don't face a poster flag. You face THE flag.

This is going no where. so I am off this thread but IT IS LAW AND HE SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED A CITATION

 

Good night.

 

Oh THE flag? as in the one behind them???

[Reaver 10]

The you ought to be the more upset about it. But, no, instead you apparently think NOTHING is wrong with what he is doing????

 

Nope, I am not upset..because my service in the military was for this country and the FREEDOM that it provides...even to the losers that bash the military and go out of their way to cause trouble. Just like I can go wave a 50'X50' flag on the street corner and it's not illegal, so can someone else go and wave a Russian flag and it's not illegal. This country is based on FREEDOM and RIGHTS OF EXPRESSION.

 

No, I do not agree with his actions....but my point is that he is no worse off than anyone else. Stop nitpicking.

[WHY? 16]

Oh they "probably" were...oh...uh...okay..I see....

I am glad you see!:cheers:

[Reaver 10]

LOL try pulling the amendment stuff on title 26 and 26a of the same USC. against the IRS and see if that will fly in a court of law. Some of tried the amendment deal with IRS. Guess where they are at?? In prison!! IT IS THE LAW and HE should have been arrested or cited for it. THIS IS FEDERAL CODE reaver.

 

SHHHH! well don't tell this guy that!

 

http://consumerist.com/consumer/irs/man-dodges-taxes-for-10-years-wins-in-federal-district-court-279978.php

[Reaver 10]

I am glad you see!:cheers:

 

I guess we're playing the ASSumption game now...Obama probably had a flare up of his Parkinsons and was clasping his hands together to prevent them from shaking in public.

[Reaver 10]

Anyone have any (reasonable) input?

[Nick1984 10]

If not putting your hand over your heart means you're unpatiotic then most of the citizens of Australia are pretty (to use a very "in" term now" un-Australian. We even make fun of our national anthem!

 

I don't believe that patriotism revolves around a set of gestures or hollow promises to be true and faithfull blah blah blah. Patriotism is more about the feeling of love and dedication you have for your land. It doesn't have to always be ostensibly shown through the innane practice of holding a hand over your heart. When your country looses a close sporting event and you're on the verge of tears that makes you pretty damn patriotic.

 

When you can sit back and joke about yourselves that makes you patriotic. Australia is definately a different place than the US. Over here we have a sense of larikanism that is pretty wide spread throughout the country. We don't like to take things too seriously here so if we had Obama here not putting his hand over his heart most people except for the ultra conservatives wouldn't give a rat's arse about it.

 

What is worrying here however, is that the government wants to implement a citizenship test for all new immigrants before they are allowed to become citizens. The test is meant to be about Australian values. How do you quantify something like that? Countries like the USA and Australia are relatively new countries in the world and since their inceptions have become melting pots to a very vast range of different people from different ethnic, cultural, religioius, and linguistic backgrounds. Is it fair to assume that the values held by the first white people to settle in the land as being the litmus (sp?) test for the level of patriotism we should all aspire too?

 

If we take the original settlers as being the epitomy of patriotism I should be speaking one of the 150+ Aboriginal dialects in this country which has been inhabited by the Aboriginals for over 45,000 years!

 

I reckon that in the end your meaningfull actions really define how much of a patriot you are. Not placing a hand over a heart is hardly a case for concern. For some of you it may be, however I'd be pretty offended if someone said I was un-Australian because I think that the Ugg boot is one of the worst inventions in fashion ever, or that Fosters and VB suck balls in the beer department (sorry USA fellas we ship that camel piss over to you guys lol).

[Reaver 10]

If not putting your hand over your heart means you're unpatiotic then most of the citizens of Australia are pretty (to use a very "in" term now" un-Australian. We even make fun of our national anthem!

 

I don't believe that patriotism revolves around a set of gestures or hollow promises to be true and faithfull blah blah blah. Patriotism is more about the feeling of love and dedication you have for your land. It doesn't have to always be ostensibly shown through the innane practice of holding a hand over your heart. When your country looses a close sporting event and you're on the verge of tears that makes you pretty damn patriotic.

 

When you can sit back and joke about yourselves that makes you patriotic. Australia is definately a different place than the US. Over here we have a sense of larikanism that is pretty wide spread throughout the country. We don't like to take things too seriously here so if we had Obama here not putting his hand over his heart most people except for the ultra conservatives wouldn't give a rat's arse about it.

 

What is worrying here however, is that the government wants to implement a citizenship test for all new immigrants before they are allowed to become citizens. The test is meant to be about Australian values. How do you quantify something like that? Countries like the USA and Australia are relatively new countries in the world and since their inceptions have become melting pots to a very vast range of different people from different ethnic, cultural, religioius, and linguistic backgrounds. Is it fair to assume that the values held by the first white people to settle in the land as being the litmus (sp?) test for the level of patriotism we should all aspire too?

 

If we take the original settlers as being the epitomy of patriotism I should be speaking one of the 150+ Aboriginal dialects in this country which has been inhabited by the Aboriginals for over 45,000 years!

 

I reckon that in the end your meaningfull actions really define how much of a patriot you are. Not placing a hand over a heart is hardly a case for concern. For some of you it may be, however I'd be pretty offended if someone said I was un-Australian because I think that the Ugg boot is one of the worst inventions in fashion ever, or that Fosters and VB suck balls in the beer department (sorry USA fellas we ship that camel piss over to you guys lol).

 

Yeah I agree with you there Nick. As much as I personally take pride in putting my hand over my heart (or popping a salute as it used to be)...I am not going to jump to conclusions that someone is unpatriotic just because they don't share my exact beliefs. Like you said, your actions, not gestures are the defining characteristics of someone as a patriot.

 

ha ha funny, as I knew a couple girls from Sydney who said the same thing about Fosters. haha!

[Sparrow 10]

If I was an american, I'd go with Ron Paul, what the guy talks about sounds good, dunno of course how good his policies would work out.

Politicians being politicians, it is of course doubtful that he'd live up to all of his promises, but his record looks real good.

The way that american politics works makes it very unlikely that he'll even become a candidate.

I got the video from the high probablity trader, I like that guy .

 

[waveslider 10]

I really enjoyed that Ron Paul video. There are some interesting points brought up on this thread, some beaten to death. Some important points:

 

1. It would be a travesty if the president was elected because he/she WAS AFRICAN AMERICAN OR A WOMAN. Sorry soultrader, that was a thoughtless comment and maybe you didn't mean it that way.

 

2. A president should be elected for their ideas. Not their past or the SIZE OF THEIR CAMPAIGN FUND. This is a key point guys - the money comes from special interest groups who are buying the presidency and positioning themselves. I realize it's a capitalist country, but money should have nothing to do with getting elected.

 

3. We need to look beneath the presidency to see what is really going on. How many people here think Bushy actually has "any" power, aside from being a figure-head. This is a trend, and a major sign of corruption at the top.

SO if Bush is not the one calling the shots, can we actually vote for someone who will? Or are there more powerful sources like special interest groups (oil, defense, drug, labor, etc.) that over-ride. DOES THIS GOVERNMENT REALLY REPRESENT THE PEOPLE anymore?

 

3. WHY? kept talking about some law about saluting the flag - Nick the aussie is right about not giving this stuff too much credence. This symbolism leads to blind patriotism which, in my opinion, is total bull. Even the founding fathers would agree that trusting your government is probably the worst mistake you can make. Any government that enforces mandatory patriotism/nationalism over freedom of speech sounds like nazism to me.

 

4. The power is in the people, the government needs to be reminded of this. For quite some time there has been a majority against the war in Iraq - so why are we paying for it! There is a parallel that goes back to Vietnam, when the PEOPLE were so fed up with the government sending youths off to die that they began rioting in masses. At the time Nixon did not admit their influence, but in his memoirs he said that he took the protesters very seriously, and was fearful of their effect.

 

We need more fear and accountability in government. Responsibility to the people and not to the special interest groups. Folks my parents age, baby boomers, still have this blind faith in the US that they learned from their parents (WWII era). Subsequent generations have lost this faith with the TRUTH about the crap that was done in the past 40 years by agencies like the CIA and even higher up. This is another trend.

 

Future generations are going to have less and less faith in the government when stuff like this keeps going on. They have no reason to have faith, instead what they have is a growing mistrust and a lack of power to do anything about it.

 

Well the power is in numbers, and yes I think that revolution and anarchy is not out of the question someday- just throw in a few variables. I don't like to think about what will happen when the full story comes to light on the 911 events.

 

So that's my ramble, maybe it can spark some new thoughts on this thread, as it seemed to be dying.

 

PS yes I am in canada - wife and daughter canadian, but born in the US and lived there most of my life. I don't agree with Socialism here, don't think it works except in situations like Norway where you have oil buffering the bureaucratic inefficiencies. Canada is so inefficient it's ridiculous.