Squawk Box?

[Tasuki 10]

Just curious if anyone uses a squawk box service---if so, how useful have you found it? Does it work only for scalping, or can you judge with any reasonable accuracy where pivot tops and bottoms will be put in, and if so, what do you listen for?

[torero 10]

It takes time to determine if it's useful. I heard Hanz mentioned it take getting used to to learn the noise level and cues to pick up to bring benefit to trading at least 6 months. I've never used it so I have no direct comment on it.

[brownsfan019 17]

I never cared for it. Tried it and found it to be a distraction.

[Reaver 10]

I think it would drive me up the wall. Seriously.

[torero 10]

I think being on the floor is better than half-ass noise only and no visual cues which are the most important from what they say. Like poker I reckon, hearing what your opponent is just not as good as seeing how his hands or eyes twitching when a certain hand comes up.

[Reaver 10]

I agree, I think it would be like getting only half the story....

[brownsfan019 17]

The one thing I found is that you can get caught up in the excitement of the action from the announcer's voice and that's not good. You want to feel like you are in the pits, since it sounds like you are, and if the announcer is yelling that Merrill is buying heavy, you want to buy with Merrill! Well, as you can imagine, that type of trading is a quick way to blow your account out. I remember one day about the squawk - I was talking with a trader friend thru instant messenger and he had just gotten the squawk thinking it was a needed tool. I was doing my trading and he IM's me saying buy es! Big buyer! Merrill Lynch!

 

About 30 seconds later price dropped hard.

 

I asked how that long went.

 

Well, you know what his reply was.

 

So we all know trading is hard enough, but here's how that quick 60 seconds or so played out with the squawk:

 

 

:rofl:

 

 

:hmpf:

 

:doh:

 

:crap:

 

 

Point being that I found the squawk to mess with your emotions way too easily, esp in the beginning. It's a new toy and when you hear the guy yelling that Merrill and UBS are buying, you want in! The problem is that you have no idea what they are buying, when they are buying and if they even got filled to begin with.

[Reaver 10]

The one thing I found is that you can get caught up in the excitement of the action from the announcer's voice and that's not good. You want to feel like you are in the pits, since it sounds like you are, and if the announcer is yelling that Merrill is buying heavy, you want to buy with Merrill! Well, as you can imagine, that type of trading is a quick way to blow your account out. I remember one day about the squawk - I was talking with a trader friend thru instant messenger and he had just gotten the squawk thinking it was a needed tool. I was doing my trading and he IM's me saying buy es! Big buyer! Merrill Lynch!

 

About 30 seconds later price dropped hard.

 

I asked how that long went.

 

Well, you know what his reply was.

 

So we all know trading is hard enough, but here's how that quick 60 seconds or so played out with the squawk:

 

 

:rofl:

 

 

:hmpf:

 

:doh:

 

:crap:

 

 

Point being that I found the squawk to mess with your emotions way too easily, esp in the beginning. It's a new toy and when you hear the guy yelling that Merrill and UBS are buying, you want in! The problem is that you have no idea what they are buying, when they are buying and if they even got filled to begin with.

 

Nice demonstration brownsfan:D

 

But very valid point....in many of the older trading books, they speak of the danger of sitting around the broker's office listening to the gossip....it can really make you second guess yourself and get caught up in the excitement. Kind of like the same way people get wrapped up in bright blinking lights at a slot machine...rationality goes right out the window.

[stanlyd 10]

I know some folks who have used and it seems to help so that's great, but for me I think it is distracting. Especially if you are trading a system you developed and backtest and have put into live action. If you "start taking positions" or "not taking positions" or based on the audio, then you are not sticking to your setups and sort of flyng by the seat of your pants IMO. After all your backtesting did not consider the audio. I mean maybe I should try hooking the audio output up to an audio meter and start testing to see at what decibel levels price starts to react and I could come up with a setup from it hahaha. :o

[MC 10]

I know some folks who have used and it seems to help so that's great, but for me I think it is distracting. Especially if you are trading a system you developed and backtest and have put into live action. If you "start taking positions" or "not taking positions" or based on the audio, then you are not sticking to your setups and sort of flyng by the seat of your pants IMO. After all your backtesting did not consider the audio. I mean maybe I should try hooking the audio output up to an audio meter and start testing to see at what decibel levels price starts to react and I could come up with a setup from it hahaha. :o

 

I intend to try and use it when I get to trade full time. I can't run squawk at work and expect to get a check there. LOL

 

I don't intend to really use squawk to get in a trade though it could be used for confirmation of the pressure of the direction/reversal I suppose. I think I would use it more for knowing when a pullback might be turning into a rollover and when to exit. And also at key levels I would try and note the volume level from the action much like the tape is used.

 

This all in theory as I haven't applied it yet so anything could happen, but I will give it a try. I think it's like any other market tool, you just have to learn how to filter it but the noise levels are showing raw emotions IMO.

 

If it's not useful I'll be glad to save that $75 per month anyhow. :o

[Tasuki 10]

After following the squawk for just a short while, here are my initial thoughts:

1) The big boys (Merrill, Goldman, Deutsche Bank, etc.) can be wrong, or they may be doing some sort of fakeout that you're not privy to--conclusion: don't ever trade based on what the squawk caller says the big boys are doing.

2) Sometimes the caller says something really valuable, such as "the locals are going to whack the eminis" and then you probably can trade on that--this happened last friday, and the caller was dead on the money.

3) If you get a good caller, there is alot of information they transmit if you know what to listen for---e.g. Ben Lichtenstein's Q&A session has been invaluable in this regard.

4) There is a certain sophistication to the noise levels in the squawk. Here's one valuable tip: if price is coming up to strong resistance, and then pierces through with a SUDDEN burst of noise in the pit, then you're best bet is to fade the move. If, however, the noise builds slowly, then the probably favors a true breakout.

Taz

[Minetoo 10]

The Prop shop I used to work at had squawk but I found it a noisy nuisance. I can recall numerous times the announcer would shout "paper coming to buy" and the market would tank or head fake everyone. Combine that noise with 100 screaming/talking traders/CNBC/ telephones/and the people next to you yakking about their new boat and it was a miracle I made any $. Pit noise is of limited utility and this business requires laser-like focus to succeed.

[MC 10]

After following the squawk for just a short while, here are my initial thoughts:

1) The big boys (Merrill, Goldman, Deutsche Bank, etc.) can be wrong, or they may be doing some sort of fakeout that you're not privy to--conclusion: don't ever trade based on what the squawk caller says the big boys are doing.

2) Sometimes the caller says something really valuable, such as "the locals are going to whack the eminis" and then you probably can trade on that--this happened last friday, and the caller was dead on the money.

3) If you get a good caller, there is alot of information they transmit if you know what to listen for---e.g. Ben Lichtenstein's Q&A session has been invaluable in this regard.

4) There is a certain sophistication to the noise levels in the squawk. Here's one valuable tip: if price is coming up to strong resistance, and then pierces through with a SUDDEN burst of noise in the pit, then you're best bet is to fade the move. If, however, the noise builds slowly, then the probably favors a true breakout.

Taz

 

 

Thanks, great tips. I was looking at using traders audio when I'm ready to benefit from it. Glad to hear some good remarks on them.

 

I want the pit noise more so than the caller I think. For the exact reason you said, to fade emotions on key level breaks. Just like I'll watch the tape and see if the big blocks step in or if its all noob emotional buyers. :o

 

And would you say on continuations you want the noise to blast and the pullbacks to be soft volume?

[brownsfan019 17]

Thanks, great tips. I was looking at using traders audio when I'm ready to benefit from it. Glad to hear some good remarks on them.

 

I want the pit noise more so than the caller I think. For the exact reason you said, to fade emotions on key level breaks. Just like I'll watch the tape and see if the big blocks step in or if its all noob emotional buyers. :o

 

And would you say on continuations you want the noise to blast and the pullbacks to be soft volume?

 

mc - It sounds like you are new to trading if I recall from your posts. I am going to suggest this - forget the pit noise. You do not need it, esp in the beginning. I think you are going to waste a lot of time and money trying to hear what the pit might be telling you through an internet connection. As others have pointed out, those that do trade for a living, this noise is just that - noise. And part of your trading plan will be to filter the useless noise out. Creating additional, unnecessary noise for yourself is just adding another hurdle.

 

If you really want to feel the pit, you need to be there.

[MC 10]

mc - It sounds like you are new to trading if I recall from your posts. I am going to suggest this - forget the pit noise. You do not need it, esp in the beginning. I think you are going to waste a lot of time and money trying to hear what the pit might be telling you through an internet connection. As others have pointed out, those that do trade for a living, this noise is just that - noise. And part of your trading plan will be to filter the useless noise out. Creating additional, unnecessary noise for yourself is just adding another hurdle.

 

If you really want to feel the pit, you need to be there.

 

 

Thanks for the input, I'm still a long ways away from bothering with pit noise.

I'm actually about a few weeks away from going live on the YM. I've been pretty consistant on profitable paper trades with Ninja and OEC demo accounts. I'm not lookin to run before I walk, that you can be sure of. :o

 

I trade from work so the noise isn't an option even if I wanted it to be. When (not if, but when) I trade from home for a living then I may add things like noise.

 

Thanks again for the insight, especially your candle threads.

[Tasuki 10]

The funny thing is, the first time I took a free trial on a squawk service, I found it to be incredibly distracting. This second time, however, I understand my own signals well enough that I'm more relaxed, and I like to study the tug of war at support/resistance areas. To do this well, you really need to stay glued to the charts, and the squawk gives you another dimension to the action. It's actually pretty much fun, but you have to enjoy the battle.

[Reaver 10]

Almost like an audio version of tape reading?

[feb2865 10]

I think being on the floor is better than half-ass noise only and no visual cues which are the most important from what they say. Like poker I reckon, hearing what your opponent is just not as good as seeing how his hands or eyes twitching when a certain hand comes up.

 

I agree 100% with no visual aid it becomes a distraction

 

There's a lot of body language in the pit.

[sirkin01 10]

Well for most it's a love hate thing. One you must use squawk for added info that's it. Like a indicator on your screen do you trade every indicator once it goes in a buy zone? No you don't. In response to the friend that said go long...because paper was buying. yes paper was buying but once the demand was gone it will sell off. everyone finds a niche, a way to trade if i am short and i here locals starting to jump in then paper I know i'm in the right direction. But sometimes what you don't hear is just as important as what you do. If nothing is going on, good idea to maybe not take a trade.

Jon

[stalor455 10]

I listen to a squawk box on the web, it's the TOS broadcast if you have the TOS platform you can see charts & listen, the guy that does the talking does a few ES trades, a few stock daytrades & tells you why he took the trades, he's a very good trader & I have learned a lot from listening. Shadowtrader is what it's called, Brad does the talking now, Peter Reznicek started it a long time ago & Peter taught me to b consistent & discplined. Both Peter & Brad renforce good trading habits & spout off good info on a daily basis. The best thing is they're not selling anything & it's free. here's a link where you can listen from 9:15 -11:30 1:30-4:00

[stalor455 10]

http://38.98.140.164:8000/ I didn't load the link right the first time,, a tek head I am not lol I hope this helps someone as much as it has me. Happy New Year

[sirkin01 10]

I was talking about Tradersaudio.com

and the audio in the pits

[steve46 12]

Okay I noticed this thread and I can offer a couple of comments

 

First, the only service I would us is TradersAudio. Ben is main guy there, he has experience, and his comments are accurate.

 

Second, the squawk is a tool and like any tool, what you get out of it depends on your skill level and your temperment. Its not for everyone. If you are a new, you may want to go to the website and look at the FAQs before you try it. As some folks have pointed out, it can be distracting and it takes a while to learn to decode the language. I have some comments about this on my thread "Ideas for Struggling Traders" where I "translate" part of a session so that new traders can see what is going on....

 

Hope that helps a little bit

 

Good luck

Steve

[darthtrader3.0beta 10]

1) The big boys (Merrill, Goldman, Deutsche Bank, etc.) can be wrong, or they may be doing some sort of fakeout that you're not privy to

 

Or the more logical conclusion that they are simply using the derivative to hedge their underlieing position so then while they "seem" to be on the wrong side, the trade is doing exactly what they want it to do...

 

Personally, I've never heard or read a former pitt trader that now trades behind a screen say that the squawk is even valuable let alone essential...If its not of use to them, doesn't seem worth my time to bother with.

[Soultrader 12]

Guys you might want to check out the video Ben posted here recently:

 

TL! Videos