Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

brownsfan019

Average True Range (ATR)

Recommended Posts

In this thread, momentom brought up using the ATR as a trailing stop function and since I know literally 0 about the ATR and it's use, I thought we could have a discussion here about it and not clutter up the other thread.

 

Hopefully momentom can provide us some examples and I will do my best to interact as well.

 

Right now my questions would be what settings to set your ATR at, what number (if any) to multiply that number by (and why) and then how to use that in your trading? In my personal use, I am interested in using this as a trailing stop idea, but I'd like to hear if any are using this as a tool for entering trades as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its funny...just this morning Linnsoft introduced a new indicator called "Volatility Stop" and its inputs are exactly what momentom specifies. Weird how the universe works sometimes...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its funny...just this morning Linnsoft introduced a new indicator called "Volatility Stop" and its inputs are exactly what momentom specifies. Weird how the universe works sometimes...

 

Tin

 

Would you mind posting the code or sending it in a PM so I could have a look

 

Cheers

 

Blu-Ray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7. New Indicator: Volatility Stop. The Volatility Stop Indicator helps

define the current trend. The indicator plots a red line above the prices

bars when a downward trend is detected, and a blue line below the bars when

an upward trend is detected. These lines are commonly used as trailing

stops. This indicator is commonly used as a exit tool rather than an entry

technique. When price crosses the VSTOP value, the trend reverses and VSTOP

moves to the other side of price. The VSTOP is calculated as follows:

 

VSTOP Calculation

 

When Up Trend Detected....

 

VSTOP = CL - MULT * TR

 

As Up Trend Continues....

 

VSTOP = MAX(VSTOP.1, MaxCL - MULT * TR)

 

When Down Trend Detected....

 

VSTOP = CL + MULT * TR

 

As Down Trend Continues....

 

VSTOP = MIN(VSTOP.1, MinCL + MULT * TR)

 

Where...

 

CL = Closing Price

 

MULT = True Range Multiplier

 

TR = True Range

 

VSTOP.1 = Volatility Stop Value on Previous Bar

 

MaxCL = Maximum Closing Price since Up Trend Began

 

MinCL = Minimum Closing Price since Down Trend Began

 

Trend reverses between up and down when Closing Price crosses VSTOP.

 

RTL Token: VSTOP

 

The RTL Token for the Volatility Stop indicator is VSTOP. A common system

for trading the VSTOP might be to look for closing price crossing VSTOP:

 

Long...

 

CL > VSTOP AND CL.1 <= VSTOP

 

Short...

 

CL < VSTOP AND CL.1 >= VSTOP

 

More information on VSTOP can be found at:

http://www.linnsoft.com/tour/techind/vstop.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here is what I have been using and its worked great... see attached chart for todays action.

 

logic was that if 3 ATR's is a good stop -- then entering on a pullback and using the 3 ATR stop rule will make risk less than 3 ATR's. I have been using 1.5 ATR's as my pullback zone.

 

So in the chart... enter on limit near the lowest yellow line price and put a stop loss in at the lowest red line price -- so your initial risk is roughly 1.5 ATR's (3.0 atr stop with 1.5 atr pullback for entry). This has been working well on a 2-minute chart for me. A good move really shouldn't break the 3 ATR level.

 

fyi, this has nothing to do with a set-up -- this is only the management of a trade once you have decided you like the pattern.

 

man, I am rarely this patient but I really felt like we were going to make a lower low in the afternoon today -- note that it took a full 45 mins before my stop was actually lower than my entry.... but I did get my 'risk' down to 1.5 ES pts after about 20-mins...

 

Easylanguage code for this indicator:

 

value1= c[1]+(avgtruerange(10)*1.5);

value2= average(c,2)[1]+(avgtruerange(10)*3);

 

Plot1(Value1, "+1.5 ATRs" );

Plot2(Value2, "+3ATRs" );

5aa70dfd8f8a3_3ATRStop.thumb.png.a6b3979fae324f00ffc48706da0164a1.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi mark,

 

I exited there for a few reasons. Exits are generally much more complicated than entries but the concepts I was thinking about included:

 

1. my strategy is generally to look to enter somewhere not too far away from VWAP and find an exit once it has moved a good distance away from VWAP.

 

2. note that there was a 400 tick buy divergence on the push to 1451.00

 

3. I was looking for a lower afternoon low --- you can see that this objective was met.

 

net net, the market acheived my objective so I took the gain. waiting for the stop to get hit gives up too much IMO.

 

attached is the buy divergence and a very simple indicator I wrote that marks a dotted line at VWAP +/- 10.00 pts... sometimes it goes less, sometimes more.

 

hope that helps.

5aa70dfd9b5a0_ESBuyDiv.thumb.png.b96e6b276b95392a421a6cf179ba0378.png

5aa70dfda16d0_VWAP-10.thumb.png.89b0727941e6ee28dba86b586db4a133.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good posts dogpile.

 

I started to use ATR trailing stops because I needed something that would adjust to market conditions.

 

The ATR stop, by its very nature, adjusts to the volatility of the market.

 

The use of the inputs 10 and 3 may be a bit arbitrary although the logic is that calculating ATR over 10 bars is short enough to reflect current market conditions but long enough to give a "fair" picture. I keep the stop away by 3 ATRs because I find it far enough away to not be stopped olut unnecessarily most of the time yet close enough to get me out early enough at the end of a move. You might want to try numbers between 2 and 4 ( say every 0.25) if 3 doesn't suit. I'd be wary of over optimisation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hi mark,

 

I exited there for a few reasons. Exits are generally much more complicated than entries but the concepts I was thinking about included:

 

1. my strategy is generally to look to enter somewhere not too far away from VWAP and find an exit once it has moved a good distance away from VWAP.

 

2. note that there was a 400 tick buy divergence on the push to 1451.00

 

3. I was looking for a lower afternoon low --- you can see that this objective was met.

 

net net, the market acheived my objective so I took the gain. waiting for the stop to get hit gives up too much IMO.

 

attached is the buy divergence and a very simple indicator I wrote that marks a dotted line at VWAP +/- 10.00 pts... sometimes it goes less, sometimes more.

 

hope that helps.

 

 

Hi Dogpile

Thanks for the chart, that was a very graceful exit.

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its very similar to a keltner channel trailing stop. keltner channel is based on a moving average and this method is based on just the last close + 3 ATR's.

 

but a 1-min KC (20 period, 2.5 ATR keltner channel) is another method that works pretty well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
its very similar to a keltner channel trailing stop. keltner channel is based on a moving average and this method is based on just the last close + 3 ATR's.

 

but a 1-min KC (20 period, 2.5 ATR keltner channel) is another method that works pretty well.

 

Thanks Dog

 

So I assume , If I'm short for instance, that the upper band will be my mark for trailing stop rigth??

 

What would be a good setup for the bands on a five minutes charts? 10/1.5?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize this thread has been quiet for a while but was wondering if anyone has similar code that plots like the volatility stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could anyone suggest a website (or software package) that will show the Average True Range for 1,2,...5 minutes. I am looking for more than just the daily ATR.

 

Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like Many who have posted on this thread previously I am eternally struggling with Exit Strategies.. for ES.

 

I basically trade the same entry but have 3 exits signals for scaling out:

 

1. Fixed target.

2. A Tight trailing stop that ratchets 1.25 points behind the market.

3. ATR Stop.

 

My trade unit is a 3 lot.

 

I hoping there might be traders here who have found better ways of managing exits/open trades... This is a long-term ongoing conundrum for me...

 

#1. Fixed Short range target for a high probability win.. Almost 1/1 RR.

#2. After 1st Lot exited stop brought even on #2 and trailed tic for tic.

#3. Stop B/E same as #2 but trailed behind ATR.

 

Anyone have a succesful process or any other tools that successfully attack this issue?

 

I'd appreciate hearing from you.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • Thx for reminding us... I don't bang that drum often enough anymore Another part for consideration is who that money initially went to...
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.