All About The Benjamins

[thetradingdoctor 10]

Hi Everyone,

 

Money is the last great taboo of our culture. People will tell most everything about themselves, including the intimate details of their sex lives. With few exceptions, they will not tell you about money--how much they have, how much they want, what will or won't do to get it--what they think of people who may or may not have more or less money than they do--what money really means to them--how conflicted they are about money.

 

 

Money is like an iceberg. The tip of the iceberg shows above the water as conflict, guilt and overwhelm. Below the surface are feelings of complacency, intimidation, silence, fear and ignorance. It is these deepest feelings about money that many are reluctant to face. These feelings are among those that lead to failure or success as a trader.

 

Look at this conflict, stated by Vic Oliver: If a man runs after money, he's money-mad; if he spends it, he's a playboy; if he doesn't try to get t, he lacks ambition; if he gets it without working for it, he's a parasite; and, if he accumulates it after a lifetime of hard work, people call him a fool who never got anything out of life because all he did was work!

 

Most traders and investors are preoccupied with money. They want to find the system, the indicators, the newsletter, the guru, the platform, the Holy Grail that will turn into an ATM for them. It is a search, ususally without end. Everyone wants to live in Richistan ( this is a book by Robert Frank) but few have passports or know how to get in---or stay in.

 

What does money mean to you? What are your deepest fears about money?

What are your hopes for money? How do you see yourself in the world of money? What does "having it all" mean to you?

 

Thanks!

 

Doctor Janice

[TinGull 10]

What does money mean to you? What are your deepest fears about money? What are your hopes for money? How do you see yourself in the world of money? What does "having it all" mean to you?

 

Thanks!

 

Doctor Janice

 

 

Hmmm, interesting questions. Money, to me, means freedom. I dont need a lot of it for me to live, but would like to make a big chunk to be able to donate to various non-profits that me and my partner have worked with in the past.

 

Deepest fears about money? I guess my deepest fear is that if I had too much of it I'd turn into a lame person and just sit on my yacht all day drinking champagne and wastefully spending money on trivial things like that. I don't think that'd ever happen to me, but that's a fear I think about from time to time.

 

My hopes for money? I hope money will give me the freedom that I want from having someone over my shoulder trying to push me to earn money for THEM instead of me pushing myself to earn money for ME. I hope money gives me the ability to give back to the communities that have enriched my life growing up thus far.

 

How do I see myself in the world of money? I see myself as someone different. Someone who would have a million dollars in the bank but still live in a 900 sq ft house with my girl and 2 dogs, still use just one car to get around, still grow our own food, still be exactly the same as I was when I was struggling hard...just without the "Oh crap, how will we pay mortgage THIS month?" feeling at the end of the month.

 

"Having it all" means having someone to love (who loves me back) and doing good with what I am able to create for myself. Whether that be monetarily (giving to foundations and other non profits) or by teaching others what I know (either with trading or preferably with music). I will have a sweet recording studio again someday where I can host artists who want to be inspired by the natural beauty of the Maine coast line.

 

[Guest cooter]

How you earn the income can also make a big difference in your quality of life.

 

The best form of income is amplified, residual income - where someone or something works for you, and you get a paycheck without having to do much of anything yourself after the initial efforts.

 

So how can we extrapolate this to trading? In order to generate an income you have to physically enter and exit your trades profitably - at the right time and place. To do this yourself consistently takes dedication, hard work and lots of discipline. It also requires a lot of your time and effort to identify the proper setup and execute it appropriately. Hence the rush to figure out how to automate or mechanize your trading setups.

 

Think of it. You push a button, and the computer does the rest - identifying your setup, executing your trades, and you reap the profits. It's the so-called holy grail of trading - that's why there's an emphasis on all these "black box" trading strategies that do it all for you.

 

Just set it and forget it.

[walterw 10]

I personally enjoy the "profession" of trading... I am very glad to be a trader as profession... I enjoy every aspect of the trading profession that not necessary is related to money, like technicals, trading itself etc... and then money its an expontaneous consecuence.... so I try not to focus that much on money as on the profession... certainly when money comes in, so the party comes in... but I try to treat it as a mere consecuence... ironically on this profession money is the only objective... but if to much focused on it, you most probably are going to fail... its better to focus on the traders technicall and psichological aspects more than money, thats so far my experience... cheers Walter.

[thetradingdoctor 10]

For the experienced traders--and those that are taught properly--money is the byproduct of doing it correctly. For the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the markets promise instant riches, magical thousands of percent increases to their accounts, holy grails, magical potions, tons of dopamine and every aspect of unbridled greed.

 

Excellent perspective, Walter and thanks to all for sharing on this topic.

 

Thanks!

Doctor Janice

[thetradingdoctor 10]

This is a trader having a really bad day....wonder if money has anything to do with the behavior?

 

http://tinyurl.com/3dom4k

 

I would love to hear more from this board about money attitudes and how you see yourself in the world of money. Please prove me wrong when I say that money is the last great taboo of our culture and no one wants to talk about it?

 

Thanks!

 

Doctor Janice

[Nick1984 10]

Firstly love the new avatar Reaver. Predator is an awesome movie!

 

On to money. Money for me is a tool. A means to an end. Only reason I see for money is to get me what i want. I want to work to live, not live to work. Theres more to life in my oppinion than chasing another dollar.

 

I don't want to be another working stiff who starts work in their early twenties and stops in the mid 60's only to start to enjoy life when I'm too old to really do it. Think of it, with 4 weeks annual leave per year over 40 years of working you only get an aggregate of just over 3 years vacation in your working career. Sound like fun to you....HELL NO!

 

The world is an amazing place with so much to do and explore, why should you be stuck exploring it on youtube stuck in your little cubicle procrastinating while doing an average of 2 hours real work per day making someone else rich?

 

The thing that attracted me to trading is the flexibility of work/life that you have being your own boss.

 

Before I decided to sit down and learn trading I asked myself some questions as to what would make me happy in life. Well honestly for me to be happy, I want to have a fully paid off house that my family and myself can live in. To be able to take care of my mum once she retires. To be able to have the freedom to sit down on a beach drinking coffee all day, play sports and talk to friends. Explore the world.

 

I estimated that provided I have a house fully paid off for myself, I would only need about 100k a year to have all the freedom I need to be happy. Hell if you divert most of your trading profits into managed funds that pay regular income distributions you don't need that much to have 100k of passive cash flow a year!

 

I would continue trading simply because I love the game of trading, not the money associated with it. Trading is a means to an end in terms of money. Life is waaaaay to short to screw around with a shirt and collar around you neck for 40 years.

 

That being said, I'd still work for a prop firm for a number of years though so I can a) boost my own cash reserves b) learn c) have the life experience.

[walterw 10]

This is a trader having a really bad day....wonder if money has anything to do with the behavior?

 

http://tinyurl.com/3dom4k

 

I would love to hear more from this board about money attitudes and how you see yourself in the world of money. Please prove me wrong when I say that money is the last great taboo of our culture and no one wants to talk about it?

 

Thanks!

 

Doctor Janice

 

Hillarious Doc ¡¡ its also funny to see how the others dont bother much to help... its more important their positions to whats happening there... good one ¡¡¡

 

About tabu doc... absolutely, from both sides, rich and poor... cheers Walter.

[PYenner 10]

Don't want to be rich.

Just want a security blanket for the future.

Perhaps some self validation, freedom from the conflicts at both ends of the scale, a rat silencer.

Yet the dopamine is still there at times, damn light headed stuff, it can be a liability.

[walterw 10]

Money its such a taboo that I created a poll experimenting how was the mechanism of creating a poll with a tabu question ... do you make more than 30k per month or do you make less than 30k per month trading ? you know what it vanished jejeje any way it was a test of making a poll... lol moderators... cheers Walter.

[PYenner 10]

Or maybe, what was your biggest loss in one month?

Arrgh !#@%

[thetradingdoctor 10]

Now perhaps you see about the taboo of money. One day, I will tell you how a male friend helped me sneak into a men's locker room to listen to their conversation. I know--my bad! It was a number of years ago when I was young and beautiful, so the men didn't seem to mind when I appeared from one of the lockers. In any case, the conversation was awesome! There was some bragging about money, but it was pretty superficial and they didn't go into any detail because they were much more interested in hearing about the latest and greatest and longest etc sexual exploits. Even in men's locker rooms, they will tell you the imtimate details of their sex lives, but they won't tell you much about money. It is the same with women's locker rooms and the same when people used to come to see me for shrinkage. It truly is the last great taboo of our culture. One great thing about coaching is that the traders have to tell me how they are doing, so they are forced to talk about money. The more one is forced to talk about it, the easier it becomes and the more readily one is able to "get over himself" re: money and deal with what it really--at the very core of his existence--means to him.

 

Thanks!

 

Doctor Janice ( and NO!---I no longer sneak into men's locker rooms!)

[PYenner 10]

"a male friend helped me sneak into a men's locker room to listen to their conversation"

Oh boy, no, resist the temptation...

 

Money has a huge impact on our circumstances, options.

We judge ourselves against our circumstances.

It is an ever-present reality check.

And it is way too serious for the locker room or a party.

It is a biggy (oops).

[PYenner 10]

It is said that the average American has $10k in credit card debt and pays $1300/year interest on it.

Spending is about freedom, debt is imprisoning, conflict there.

[AbeSmith 10]

My hope is to make more money than I spend. Currently I spend more money than I make. I have lots of debt, mostly from student loans.

 

I would like to get the money to buy a good house. I would like to put solar panels and energy and water saving features on my house to make it self sufficient, in case the power goes out.

 

I also would like to buy a sail boat, good land, nice automobile, gadgets,

good food, vacation, a private island, and good quality things.

 

If I have 10 million dollars: I would invest most of it in real estate, some commercial, some residential. And some land. I would still want to

learn about trading.

 

I want to have a secure and comfortable life.

[Reaver 10]

If I had 10 million right now, I'd put 5 million in a certificate and live off the interest and travel and trade the rest of my life.

[Guest cooter]

If I had 10 million right now, I'd put 5 million in a certificate and live off the interest and travel and trade the rest of my life.

 

Huh?

 

You mean you'd put it into "Tax-Free Municipal Bonds" right?

[Reaver 10]

It was for brevity's sake Cooter.

[Nick1984 10]

Thats my man! I'd do exactly the same thing. If I had 10 million id put about 5million into a regular fixed income instrument and live off that income. Id put 2 million into a small company sector managed fund cause they usually pay nice cash distributions and have nice capital growth, 2 million into property (mostly commercial), and the rest can stay in cash to fund anything else I need.

 

With that I can sit on any beach in the world I want drinking coffee, playin sports, going out with friends, reading, maybe I'll learn how to paint! Who knows?!? The world would be my oyster.

[Reaver 10]

Thats my man! I'd do exactly the same thing. If I had 10 million id put about 5million into a regular fixed income instrument and live off that income. Id put 2 million into a small company sector managed fund cause they usually pay nice cash distributions and have nice capital growth, 2 million into property (mostly commercial), and the rest can stay in cash to fund anything else I need.

 

With that I can sit on any beach in the world I want drinking coffee, playin sports, going out with friends, reading, maybe I'll learn how to paint! Who knows?!? The world would be my oyster.

 

 

lol yeah that would be the good life.

 

Plenty of money to do what you want for the rest of your life. It's funny too, because there are many people who could take 10 million and be broke in a year or less, just check out those people that win the lottery on TV.

 

I need to go buy myself some scratch and win tickets. lol

[steve46 12]

Seems to me that attitudes about money (and so many things in life) are formed from the observations we make as children. My earliest observations led me to believe that we "had" whatever we needed. Along the way, I learned (as we all do eventually) that sometimes we have to wait for what we want. I have no idea how I learned it, but somehow I internalized a feeling of having what I needed, and expecting to have what I needed. I attribute this to good parenting. I learned to expect the world to "be there" for me, and for whatever reason, everything has always worked out. I have always "had" enough internal resource to make my way in the world. I am sure I always will.

 

Money is what I recieve for doing a good job. To me this work (trading) is a challenge first, to figure it out, and to win the game. Then if I do a very good job, I get money.

 

I think life is simple if you make it so.

 

Steve