8/14/07 General Trade Log / Idea Sharing

[AbeSmith 10]

Trade 11: +19.

[AbeSmith 10]

Also, using a higher time frame as an anchor chart for a point of reference can help as well. Since you seem to be trading off of a 1 min chart, you might want to use a 5, 10 or 15 min chart as an anchor.

 

Better yet, since you are apparently using candlestick pattern recognition to trade, why not use the higher timeframe for your trades? I'm not aware of many successful candlestick traders who use only a 1 min chart....

 

Thanks Cooter. I'm also using, in addition to the 1 minute chart, the 5 minute, 2500VBC, and 1250VBC. I try to look at all these charts before deciding to enter a trade. As you know the situation can look drastically different depending on which chart one is looking at.

[AbeSmith 10]

Trade 12: -16.

[AbeSmith 10]

Trade 13: +24.

[TinGull 10]

Abe, you know what would be good...you should write out a list of the things you've learned so far about your trading methodology. What have you found that is working and what isn't working? So far as I can tell, there isn't much of a methodology and it seems like you're slinging trades left and right. 13 trades a day is quite a bit for a beginner, IMO. I would be more looking at 2-3 high probability trades per day. Then start getting into something a little more intense.

[AbeSmith 10]

Trade 14: +13.

[AbeSmith 10]

Abe, you know what would be good...you should write out a list of the things you've learned so far about your trading methodology. What have you found that is working and what isn't working? So far as I can tell, there isn't much of a methodology and it seems like you're slinging trades left and right. 13 trades a day is quite a bit for a beginner, IMO. I would be more looking at 2-3 high probability trades per day. Then start getting into something a little more intense.

 

That's excellent advice Tim. Thanks.

[brownsfan019 17]

Abe, you know what would be good...you should write out a list of the things you've learned so far about your trading methodology. What have you found that is working and what isn't working? So far as I can tell, there isn't much of a methodology and it seems like you're slinging trades left and right. 13 trades a day is quite a bit for a beginner, IMO. I would be more looking at 2-3 high probability trades per day. Then start getting into something a little more intense.

 

I agree. There is no rhyme or reason here Abe, and while I understand you are still testing stuff, starting to develop some sort of pattern is the only way you are going to see if you can make money. If you like candles, oscillators, buying on new highs, selling on new lows, etc. - just try to do the same thing over and over for at least a full day or two to see if you like it. Right now, I'm not sure what you could say has worked or not worked. It's more a coin toss in my opinion.

 

Just find something and play with that one thing, whether it be candles (which the candlestick corner here on TL can help), oscillators (just search on Google for the thousands out there), price and volume, moving averages... Something to focus on and see what you think.

[AbeSmith 10]

My trading Summary Today:

 

14 roundtrips. +11 YM points. Realized paper loss of $4.64.

 

Had a poor start, and almost hit my loss limit for today. But made a comeback towards the end.

 

Tin had an excellent idea that it is a good time to reevaluate my trading and see what is working and what is not working. So I will be working on that now.

[TinGull 10]

Right now, I'm not sure what you could say has worked or not worked. It's more a coin toss in my opinion.

 

Perfect analysis of my statement. That's the whole reason I want Abe to look over what he's been doing, as there hasn't been anything consistent. Maybe, Abe, you can look at your winning trades that you've shot off and see if there have been consistencies in those trades. I can't find any....but maybe there is something there. Would be worth it to look. The losers...find out why they were losers and stop doing that. Find something that clicks with you and stick to it. Develop a plan and stick to that. If you need help designing a winning plan, I'd suggest looking to a trading coach for that. lrushing on the boards here from tradingeveryday.com (a sponsor of the boards) is wonderful with that. He really held me accountable for my plan and whether he means to or not...it guilted me into sticking to it for fear of having to fess up to him.

 

Definitely worth looking into. It'll save you money and heartache.

[AbeSmith 10]

I agree. There is no rhyme or reason here Abe, and while I understand you are still testing stuff, starting to develop some sort of pattern is the only way you are going to see if you can make money. If you like candles, oscillators, buying on new highs, selling on new lows, etc. - just try to do the same thing over and over for at least a full day or two to see if you like it. Right now, I'm not sure what you could say has worked or not worked. It's more a coin toss in my opinion.

 

Just find something and play with that one thing, whether it be candles (which the candlestick corner here on TL can help), oscillators (just search on Google for the thousands out there), price and volume, moving averages... Something to focus on and see what you think.

 

Thanks Brownsfan. There is so much information out there that I'm still trying to digest. The best way I can describe what is going on right now is a combination of trial and error, and trying to get screen time with the market as much as possible and see how things develop from there and try to improve on it.

[brownsfan019 17]

That's part of the problem - there is SO MUCH stuff out there!! Books, google, dvd's, etc.... it's a lot, we've all been there. That's why I suggest finding one thing that you can just play with consistently for a few days and see if you like it. For example, on your lower VBC charts, I remember seeing quite a few candlestick trades. Now, if you want a high volume amount of trades, there could be something there. I have no idea if it will be profitable, but it's a building block.

 

You've also looked at when there's 2 red candles, go short. Again, something to possibly build on. I could see a VBC possibly working here b/c you will catch the monster moves, it's just a matter of how choppy it gets during slow periods.

 

In the end, it's about finding an 'edge' or probability so that you know over time, you will make money. We all lose, it's a matter of do you recoup your losses and then some or not.

[AbeSmith 10]

Currenlty my learning strategy is to get real time market experience. I figure as long as I'm there everyday paper trading and recording all my trades I will learn very valuable lessons about trading. I record every trade with annotated chart, and at the end of the day I go over all those trades to reevaluate them and see what I did wrong. Although it is alot of work and distraction from the beat of the market to record each trades on charts right after the trade, it is more helpful for me at this point. I also record my trading summary on Google Speradsheet which includes how many trades I did that day, how many points I made or lost, and the realized gains or loss. This way I will be able to idenify how I'm doing per week and per month and identify when I become consistently profitable.

 

 

 

Regarding my trading and what is working and what is not working:

 

 

 

1. I need to be more patient. I feel recently I'm doing alot of trades without being patient enough and diligent enough. In the last 3 days of trading I had an average of 13 trades per day. So I need to do less trades and concentrate on good trades with diligence. Partly that is because I was trying to adjust my trading habit from before when I felt I was running away from the market as soon as I made some profit. So I decided I would face the market head on and get over the fear of losing. On 8/10 for example early in the day I had over $600 paper profit from just one contract, and typically I would run away, but that day I decided to face the market and ended up losing most of it. Later when I went over my trading that day I was amazed at how stupid some of my trades were. So clearly I need to readjust my trading and be more conservative with my trades. I think I'm having trouble balancing. When I try to adjust my actions I tend to over adjust. But with time I think that will improve.

 

 

 

2. I need to concentrate more on going with the trend, and less on trying to catch falling knives. Looking at the VBC 1250 today I see for the most part the green candles are followed by green and the red are followed by red.

 

 

 

3. I need to use volume in my trading.

 

 

 

4. I need to rely more on multiple time frames.

 

 

 

5. I need to excercize due diligence with my trades. I feel I'm still making impulsive trades that should have been thought out better.

 

 

 

But for the most part I feel I just need to trade every day, record every trade, go over each trade at the end of the day, and keep learning from trial and error until I improve. That is the best way I know to learn to trade.

 

 

 

I like to thank all the nice people on TL. You have been tremendously helpful and I'm very luckly to have found this great site with great people.

[AbeSmith 10]

That's part of the problem - there is SO MUCH stuff out there!! Books, google, dvd's, etc.... it's a lot, we've all been there. That's why I suggest finding one thing that you can just play with consistently for a few days and see if you like it. For example, on your lower VBC charts, I remember seeing quite a few candlestick trades. Now, if you want a high volume amount of trades, there could be something there. I have no idea if it will be profitable, but it's a building block.

 

You've also looked at when there's 2 red candles, go short. Again, something to possibly build on. I could see a VBC possibly working here b/c you will catch the monster moves, it's just a matter of how choppy it gets during slow periods.

 

In the end, it's about finding an 'edge' or probability so that you know over time, you will make money. We all lose, it's a matter of do you recoup your losses and then some or not.

 

I've been noticing also the the VBC is an excellent chart and I think I will pay more attention to it. Like you say, I need to find something that works and stick with it.

[TinGull 10]

Regarding my trading and what is working and what is not working:

 

 

 

1. I need to be more patient. I feel recently I'm doing alot of trades without being patient enough and diligent enough. In the last 3 days of trading I had an average of 13 trades per day. So I need to do less trades and concentrate on good trades with diligence. Partly that is because I was trying to adjust my trading habit from before when I felt I was running away from the market as soon as I made some profit. So I decided I would face the market head on and get over the fear of losing. On 8/10 for example early in the day I had over $600 paper profit from just one contract, and typically I would run away, but that day I decided to face the market and ended up losing most of it. Later when I went over my trading that day I was amazed at how stupid some of my trades were. So clearly I need to readjust my trading and be more conservative with my trades. I think I'm having trouble balancing. When I try to adjust my actions I tend to over adjust. But with time I think that will improve.

 

Exercising the patience you're talking about would be easier watching a longer time frame chart that you are currently watching. A 1250 VBC chart would be around a 2-3min chart during regular market conditions. During these volatile conditions you're watching candles form around every 20-30 seconds at times. So, there's a conflict there. If you want to be more patient and NOT make 13 trades a day, then you need to watch a higher time frame. If you're liking what VBC charts show you, then watch a 2500-5000 VBC chart.

 

2. I need to concentrate more on going with the trend, and less on trying to catch falling knives. Looking at the VBC 1250 today I see for the most part the green candles are followed by green and the red are followed by red.

 

Going with the trend doesn't mean taking both shorts and longs right after another. It means realizing what an anchor time frame is showing you for an overall trend and trading in accordance to that for the higher probability trades. If, on a 15min chart, you are getting lower highs and lower lows, the high odds trades will be to the downside. You may get a mini trend that goes up, but realize that's a counter trend trade and should be treated as a scalp trade and position size should be reduced and your profit expectancy should be reduced as well.

 

 

3. I need to use volume in my trading.

 

You are using volume automatically if you use VBC charts.

 

 

4. I need to rely more on multiple time frames.

 

Multiple time frames help, but don't use ones that are too far out for what you're wanting to trade. For example...want to take trades based on a 5min chart? Weekly charts aren't going to do you any good. Daily charts are ok, IMO, but that's as long as I'd look. For me, I trade a 5min chart, and look only as far as a 65min chart, and even that I don't look at often. The longest time frame I pay close attention to is a 30min chart, then a 15 and then my 5min. So, be careful with what time frames you watch. Again, a 5min chart should be followed with a 15min and a 30min, IMO. Anything longer is going to cloud your mind I believe.

 

5. I need to excercize due diligence with my trades. I feel I'm still making impulsive trades that should have been thought out better.

 

That is why you need a PLAN! You don't have one yet so every trade you do take is impulsive. You need to find some setups that sing to you. Whether it be trading candle patterns on a VBC chart or trading an opening range breakout or fading pivot points...you need to devise something that works for you and stick to it. Only after that will you be able to fulfill this goal.

 

 

But for the most part I feel I just need to trade every day, record every trade, go over each trade at the end of the day, and keep learning from trial and error until I improve. That is the best way I know to learn to trade.

 

IMO, this is the worst way to go about it. Every trade you're making is an impulsive trade. You're "teaching" your subconscious mind that is OK to make impulsive trades. Some you'll win, some you'll lose...either way your mind is going to associate impulsive trades with something that is supposed to happen. Just muscle memory, really.

 

 

 

I like to thank all the nice people on TL. You have been tremendously helpful and I'm very luckly to have found this great site with great people.

 

You're welcome

[AbeSmith 10]

Exercising the patience you're talking about would be easier watching a longer time frame chart that you are currently watching. A 1250 VBC chart would be around a 2-3min chart during regular market conditions. During these volatile conditions you're watching candles form around every 20-30 seconds at times. So, there's a conflict there. If you want to be more patient and NOT make 13 trades a day, then you need to watch a higher time frame. If you're liking what VBC charts show you, then watch a 2500-5000 VBC chart.

 

 

 

Going with the trend doesn't mean taking both shorts and longs right after another. It means realizing what an anchor time frame is showing you for an overall trend and trading in accordance to that for the higher probability trades. If, on a 15min chart, you are getting lower highs and lower lows, the high odds trades will be to the downside. You may get a mini trend that goes up, but realize that's a counter trend trade and should be treated as a scalp trade and position size should be reduced and your profit expectancy should be reduced as well.

 

 

 

 

You are using volume automatically if you use VBC charts.

 

 

 

 

Multiple time frames help, but don't use ones that are too far out for what you're wanting to trade. For example...want to take trades based on a 5min chart? Weekly charts aren't going to do you any good. Daily charts are ok, IMO, but that's as long as I'd look. For me, I trade a 5min chart, and look only as far as a 65min chart, and even that I don't look at often. The longest time frame I pay close attention to is a 30min chart, then a 15 and then my 5min. So, be careful with what time frames you watch. Again, a 5min chart should be followed with a 15min and a 30min, IMO. Anything longer is going to cloud your mind I believe.

 

 

 

That is why you need a PLAN! You don't have one yet so every trade you do take is impulsive. You need to find some setups that sing to you. Whether it be trading candle patterns on a VBC chart or trading an opening range breakout or fading pivot points...you need to devise something that works for you and stick to it. Only after that will you be able to fulfill this goal.

 

 

 

 

IMO, this is the worst way to go about it. Every trade you're making is an impulsive trade. You're "teaching" your subconscious mind that is OK to make impulsive trades. Some you'll win, some you'll lose...either way your mind is going to associate impulsive trades with something that is supposed to happen. Just muscle memory, really.

 

 

 

 

 

You're welcome

 

 

Thanks Tin.

[brownsfan019 17]

One suggestion Abe - I realize many would say that multiple timeframes is a good idea. And the idea behind it sounds good; however, when trading on a VBC (esp a low setting) it's VERY, VERY difficult to monitor multiple VBC's and/or minute charts. It's just difficult for one person. You are going to miss plenty of setups b/c you were watching the 3 minute, meanwhile the VBC fired off a signal. And vice versa.

 

I am going to suggest that if you like the VBC, JUST use that for now. And just one setting. The lower the number, the quicker, so adjust from there.

 

The key here Abe is develop a 2nd sense for your market and your chart timeframe. In other words, if you have a 1250 VBC on the YM up, you should be able to tell w/o looking if the volume is light or heavy and if the day is typical or not. You should find yourself saying 'Wow, look at this action' or 'this is dead'.

 

You can add multiple timeframes and charts later. Right now, get a feel for the VBC or 1,3 minute chart as that seems to be where you gravitate to. And that's fine! Run with it! You may like more action like me. Trading 13 times a day may seem like a lot now, but if you can create a profitable strategy trading 50 times a day, do it! With the recent volatility, I am in the 50-100 trades per day arena currently. And to be perfectly honest, it's fun for me. Granted this is not about fun, but if you can have fun AND make money, I'm all for it. Taking 1-5 trades per day just does not interest me. And that's part of the game - finding what interests you and then making money at it.

[AbeSmith 10]

One suggestion Abe - I realize many would say that multiple timeframes is a good idea. And the idea behind it sounds good; however, when trading on a VBC (esp a low setting) it's VERY, VERY difficult to monitor multiple VBC's and/or minute charts. It's just difficult for one person. You are going to miss plenty of setups b/c you were watching the 3 minute, meanwhile the VBC fired off a signal. And vice versa.

 

I am going to suggest that if you like the VBC, JUST use that for now. And just one setting. The lower the number, the quicker, so adjust from there.

 

The key here Abe is develop a 2nd sense for your market and your chart timeframe. In other words, if you have a 1250 VBC on the YM up, you should be able to tell w/o looking if the volume is light or heavy and if the day is typical or not. You should find yourself saying 'Wow, look at this action' or 'this is dead'.

 

You can add multiple timeframes and charts later. Right now, get a feel for the VBC or 1,3 minute chart as that seems to be where you gravitate to. And that's fine! Run with it! You may like more action like me. Trading 13 times a day may seem like a lot now, but if you can create a profitable strategy trading 50 times a day, do it! With the recent volatility, I am in the 50-100 trades per day arena currently. And to be perfectly honest, it's fun for me. Granted this is not about fun, but if you can have fun AND make money, I'm all for it. Taking 1-5 trades per day just does not interest me. And that's part of the game - finding what interests you and then making money at it.

 

Thanks Brownsfan.

[Soultrader 12]

Just a note for one of your trades. Often, you're getting in late on a move. See the notes I've made. Volume is your best friend, more so than price is to me. Price is...ok... but volume is going to be my best man if I ever get married. HAHA

 

Very nice Tingull. Pretty much identical to how I trade using candle psych and volume. Nice one.

[TinGull 10]

Thanks James.