For those that are full time now-how'd you do it?

[GCB 10]

So are you going to approach the markets the same tomorrow as you did today? I personally do not.

 

Yes and no. I have my approach to the market and I look at the market through that prism. Obviously I need to be flexible, but I'm looking for the same kinds of signals every day. I have a few different type of trade entries, but they are all variations on the same theme, though perhaps with different backgrounds.

 

JC said once that the job of traders is to try to push the market one way or the other. If it won't go one way then they'll try to make it go the other. That spoke volumes to me. Trader's don't know which way the market is going to go, but their participation in anticipated moves makes the movement happen. Those attempts to move the market and their successes and failures look pretty much the same every day.

 

The thing is to find an entry, stop and target system which you can can overlay on those attempts so that over the course of time you will come out ahead. That's pretty much what I try to do. Nothing complex about it but the trick is to find something that not only works but that fits one's own psyche, that resonates day in and day out. I think that's what Hubert did with tape reading.

[Reaver 10]

Nate, people with a very simple approach to the market who have been honing that approach for a long time can afford to not spend time studying their charts and all that. I personally used to spend sometimes 18 hours a day studying the markets. Do I now? No, I don't. I spend from 8am until 3:30ish doing market stuff. Other than that, I don't want to be immersed in it. Life's all about finding a balance and spending too much time on one thing puts it out of balance.

 

While trading markets that are out of balance is fun to do, living a life that is out of balance is not fun at all.

 

Chris,

 

To address this and the other posts you've made on this thread: You are absolutely right. And reading what you have written, I am in a very similar situation it seems. Just pretty much living life and cutting back on expenses. Me and my wife both work at a financial institution making decent money. I have put my career on hold and gone on cruise control so I can essentially be on auto-pilot all day and still be thinking about trading and not waste my mental resources and get burned out by the time I get home and the real work begins. My wife, however, has been moving up pretty quickly and we are almost to the point to if I wanted to quit and focus solely on the markets I could....but it would be a very close call....so we are hanging in there a while longer. So thanks for the ideas because I can relate to the situations you are mentioning.

[Reaver 10]

The biggest difference between a private and insitutional trader is that you simply can not call it a day after hitting your daily goal. Its serious work and you constantly have to be engaged in the markets regardless of market condition. You could be the worst trader in a choppy market. But in insititutional trading, you are required to stay at your desk and look for opportunities. This has forced me to expand my trading to make it adaptable to any market condition regardless of whether I like it or not. Bottom line is... get the work done every minute the market stays open. The morning 90 minutes I use to go over charts, read the entire newspaper, and watch SGX open up. Lunch session is used to take notes of my trades and write up a report on my own analysis and bias towards the afternoon session. Perhaps even create a strategy that I can use for the afternoon based on morning action. The work after the close is used to reflect back on the day, do my regular TA and MP analysis for tomorrow, see what areas I can further improve, see opportunities I missed and how I can focus on capturing them, reading the afternoon papers, watching Forex, watching post market SGX action, typing up my daily trading insights and journal, etc... Its become a habit so not as intense as it used to be but all the hours put in keeps me sharp and up close and personal with the market. I have need urge to want to be in complete sync with the market. This means understanding what the market is telling me each day, finding clues, etc... Discretionary trading must be supplemented with strategies. Intuition can take you far only if you have distinct strategies for each market conditition. So are you going to approach the markets the same tomorrow as you did today? I personally do not.

 

I understand Hubert just wakes up and trade. But he is primarily a scalper reading order flow. (which imo is amazing if consistent) I prefer to trade 1-4 times a day and try to capture nice intraday swings. My 2 cents

 

Note:　Its not 5 hours straight work. Im taking cig breaks in between,

 

James, thanks for the info, it's good to get a snapshot of what a typical trading day is like for the daytrader.

[Reaver 10]

Nate,

For me, it required a leap of faith. I was a stockbroker making good money each month and when I told some people that I was resigning to trade, I can't explain all the variety of things I was told... I had built a strong book of business and was just going to walk away. It's kind of like putting in your time trading, getting successful and then leave.

 

But for me, it was something that I wanted/had to do. I wanted out of corp. America and wanted to own my own biz. I've always loved the markets so being a private trader was a logical step.

 

And of course, this has/is a tough biz to crack into. It took me longer than I thought. I mean, how hard could this be, right?

 

I think you'll read 2 schools of thought on this topic:

1) If you are going to get wet, you mind as well jump into the deep end and see if you can swim.

2) Put your tiny toe in the water and see if it hurts. If so, get out!

 

My belief is that if you are ready (or as ready as you think you will ever be), you jump and don't look back. And I mean jump. You either treat this is a full-time biz or treat it as a part-time hobby. NOTHING will replace 'face time' - time in front of the computer and charts in REAL TIME. It's way to easy to look at past charts and just see all the $$$ you would have made.

 

Now, I am not saying you take your life savings and place some large trades day one. I am saying that a full-time biz requires work before 9am, during RTH, and after 4pm. It means you live and breathe your biz. It means you pay no attention to the naysayers out there. It means you give it your all and don't look back.

 

To me, the absolute worst thing a person can do is always wonder 'what if....' Life is way to short to be wondering what if.

 

 

Hey Brownsfan,

 

Thanks for the post. I definitely appreciate it. I see exactly what you mean. Life is truly too short. Tomorrow is promised to no man...so we have to do what makes us happy, and never look back. It sure would suck to know 30-40 years down the road that I was too scared to follow my dreams. Very insightful post. I have been discussing this with my wife and we are getting a lot of preliminary planning done. It's going to be some time, but like was mentioned earlier- it takes time to run a successful venture. The posts from you Tin, Soul and everyone else are really helping.

 

It's easy if you are a longer term trader to know when you can quit working...because it is simply a matter of making enough big trades and looking at the finances, as you have the luxury of working full time as long as you need to since you don't have to be in front of the markets all day every day....but this daytrading thing is a totally different animal and had me lost....so thanks for the insight ya'll. It's priceless info.

[TinGull 10]

You'll know when you should make the move. It'll be hard, no doubt. But the end result is completely worth it.

[Reaver 10]

Definitely. Thanks man. And yeah the part you said about having a partner that is down for whatever is necessary is an invaluable asset. My wife is definitely in it too. She even puts 10% of her check into my savings to open my "big" account. She is completely supportive and that's priceless. ( I use the word priceless too much ).

[TinGull 10]

Thats awesome man. You'll be fine!

[Reaver 10]

Thanks for the encouragement! This fast paced stuff is scary for a slow-poke trader like me. ha ha

[darthtrader 10]

Reaver, I can maybe give you an interesting perspective as i'm not full time yet, actually i'm going broke right now. I thought about going to school to become a nurse so I could get a job off market hours to fund my account last year but that was absurd. Then I stopped working in jan, went back to school to get a degree in economics so that i could be a broker/financial advisor to eventually work up to trading full time. My courses were a disgrace compared to what i learned on my own. I finally said screw it, i'm all in, trader or poverty. I just emptied my stock account to buy a cheap house, looking for a shit second shift job that i can save, get expenses down to nothing then save a grub stake. maybe it takes 3 or 4 grubstakes before i stop ever working but if this is your life there is no option.

Brownsfan's little "treat trading like a business and it will pay you like a business...treat trading like a hobby...."

This is such a tough business to break into, the idea you don't go all in and bet your life doesn't make any sense.

[Reaver 10]

Reaver, I can maybe give you an interesting perspective as i'm not full time yet, actually i'm going broke right now. I thought about going to school to become a nurse so I could get a job off market hours to fund my account last year but that was absurd. Then I stopped working in jan, went back to school to get a degree in economics so that i could be a broker/financial advisor to eventually work up to trading full time. My courses were a disgrace compared to what i learned on my own. I finally said screw it, i'm all in, trader or poverty. I just emptied my stock account to buy a cheap house, looking for a shit second shift job that i can save, get expenses down to nothing then save a grub stake. maybe it takes 3 or 4 grubstakes before i stop ever working but if this is your life there is no option.

Brownsfan's little "treat trading like a business and it will pay you like a business...treat trading like a hobby...."

This is such a tough business to break into, the idea you don't go all in and bet your life doesn't make any sense.

 

That is serious dedication. There's nothing like going balls to the wall man. I respect that big time. You're right, if it's your life, then there is no other option. That is pretty inspiring. Especially because alot of people I know of who have traded in the past started out with like $100G's they either had from their six figure job or from an inheritance or whatever...that's not even remotely inspiring to me. That's not to knock on them at all, as there are some excellent traders out there who didn't bust their ass to get their trading account built up..I am just saying that their story isn't inspiring to me....It makes about as much sense to me as thinking some kid in high school is cool because his parents bought him a brand new convertible. lol

 

Once again-to reiterate, I am not knocking on people just because they didn't have to go to extremes to fund their account. Nothing wrong with that. It is still hard as hell to be a successful trader.

 

I just think that going all out to get a stake makes you appreciate it more because you have a much more intimate understanding of what you had to go through to get it.

 

Good luck Darth Tradar.

[The Bear 10]

Thanks for the encouragement! This fast paced stuff is scary for a slow-poke trader like me. ha ha

 

Hey Reaver - maybe you want to consider swing trading in the beginning too? This way you could use share sizing (to trade stocks), pay low commissions, and just get your feet wet to get the feeling of the buying and selling action...just executing trades.

 

At the end of the day, it is our ability to make money that counts, so considering different time frames maybe good to see if it fits your personality. I'm not saying avoid intra-day futures at first....but when I started I did swing trading at first, and used very small risk on each trade. Most of my trades are intra-day now, but I still keep swing trading and even longer term monthly positions too.

 

The swing trading helped me alot to get around the emotional stress of holding onto a position overnight that was out of the money.

 

Hope that helps and answers the question on where to start first....this is just how I started. As for your other question, was I independently wealthy before going full time? No - I was flat broke. In fact I had debt...credit card debt. I went many periods with as little as $10.00 in my bank account. The last year in high school I knew I wanted to attempt to be a speculator, but I didn't know how to do it. I was a C average student so I couldn't get into the true commerce program at University, so I ended up going into Business Management (Arts). It had nothing to do with the capital markets so I stopped going to class and dropped out of university. Then I got into high alititude mountaineering...even attempted to climb Mount McKinley (19)...failed....climbed numerous other smaller mountains.

 

Then through some speculative activities later on, I was able to build enough capital to pursue my original goal...that was left unfulfilled, but the stock market books were always under my bed for years left un-read getting dusty.

[Reaver 10]

Hey Reaver - maybe you want to consider swing trading in the beginning too? This way you could use share sizing (to trade stocks), pay low commissions, and just get your feet wet to get the feeling of the buying and selling action...just executing trades.

 

At the end of the day, it is our ability to make money that counts, so considering different time frames maybe good to see if it fits your personality. I'm not saying avoid intra-day futures at first....but when I started I did swing trading at first, and used very small risk on each trade. Most of my trades are intra-day now, but I still keep swing trading and even longer term monthly positions too.

 

The swing trading helped me alot to get around the emotional stress of holding onto a position overnight that was out of the money.

 

Hope that helps and answers the question on where to start first....this is just how I started. As for your other question, was I independently wealthy before going full time? No - I was flat broke. In fact I had debt...credit card debt. I went many periods with as little as $10.00 in my bank account. The last year in high school I knew I wanted to attempt to be a speculator, but I didn't know how to do it. I was a C average student so I couldn't get into the true commerce program at University, so I ended up going into Business Management (Arts). It had nothing to do with the capital markets so I stopped going to class and dropped out of university. Then I got into high alititude mountaineering...even attempted to climb Mount McKinley (19)...failed....climbed numerous other smaller mountains.

 

Then through some speculative activities later on, I was able to build enough capital to pursue my original goal...that was left unfulfilled, but the stock market books were always under my bed for years left un-read getting dusty.

 

Hey that is great information. Thanks, I appreciate it.

[walterw 10]

My 2 cents here : when you want something so badly, you do just about anything until you get it... and you know what : YOU GET IT...

 

so wanting I believe here is the key...

 

the rest is history... cheers Walter.

[Soultrader 12]

My 2 cents here : when you want something so badly, you do just about anything until you get it... and you know what : YOU GET IT...

 

so wanting I believe here is the key...

 

the rest is history... cheers Walter.

 

Yep... thats the bottom line. You want something badly, you will find a way.

[TinGull 10]

And not even just wanting it, but knowing you can have it and understanding that it IS something you deserve. I often remind myself that I will attract abundance in my life be it through trading or be it through other means. Whether it be monetary or it be emotional, there's so much out there for all of us to acquire, it's a matter of knowing deep inside you that you can have it, that you deserve to have it.

[brownsfan019 17]

I agree that wanting to make it as a trader is an important component. Just wanting it is not enough in and of itself; however, w/o it I think it would be hard to stick around during the tough times. With the cost of entry so incredibly low, esp in futures and forex, anyone can open an account w/ the hopes of becoming a millionaire in no time. It's the people that want to build a successful and consistent business that have better odds of making it in my opinion. Once again, I think a common theme here is that you go into this treating it as an actual business. I think that changes your mindset. For example, if you wanted to open a restaurant, retail shop, etc. you have to know going into it that it could take YEARS to develop. It could take YEARS to make a profit. As long as you go into it with that expectation, it's much easier to weather the storm. Same can be said of trading - if you expect that learning this trade will take years of study and application, you have a better chance of 'making it'. If you come into this with $2500 and a futures account in order to double it each week, I hope you at least have fun trying to chase that impossible dream.

[namstrader 10]

Yep this is the Law of Growth. Thoughts and circumstances build upon themselves and the more begets more. So incremental actions toward our visions and the unshakable faith in the vision and especially YOURSELF. "YOU ARE THE DOG THAT BITES YOU", we are, ourselves, in the way of increase.

 

Man, remember this.... (saying to self, not preaching), that the Universe is abundance not scarcity, get the vision or where ya want to be, have it now as if you received it, let the vision guide all actions and exercise gratitude. Let go of all the conditioned crap called the life principles that I think Kiev said in "Trading to Win" or Mark Douglas not sure, that have screwed us up in our expectations or protecting the ego's status for others. Just become a "HOT WIRE" that is tapped into the circuit of power, which is the Infinite, and tell it what you want cause, as I am now trying to grasp, it is all "ONE BIG THOUGHT" and we are just channels or instruments for the Whole to express as individual parts of that Whole. There are no favorites, it is available to anyone that can see the laws that exist. Simple as a pimple. Just seek expression as a mini creator and not as a competitor. Just go make bank, with just doing today excellently in a certain way, however you define it, from within.

 

Hey, I claim only to be one who wants to be greater than I am now. I have little success now materialistically, and this is reflective of my thoughts within, thats all. We get what receive and I am learning that the cause is always from our own thoughts;Look not else where, it is all YOU, that is why we are all perfect and at equilibrium because what we give, we receive.

 

So have strong thoughts on the vision and not the known, or seen here now in the objective world. The Unseen is where it is all created so go think about it, with actions and applications or systems you have evolved to know, and have faith and trust the Current or Electricity is there, and it is, I have just not understood this, so I have crumbs not treasure.

 

After losing my trading account I began to go over all the good stuff I gathered over the years that offered insights etc. I have started to write them for sharing, with anyone that needs some short excerpts, or sum ups, from Steenbarger, Kiev, Douglas, Raschke, etc. check it out if ya want because this community has offered me so much and I have something I think now to give back alittle, since I always felt What do I have to offer James Lee, TinGull, Walter, and others, that has some value, if alittle from me? The website is:

 

http://www.stockmarkettradingtips.net/

[TinGull 10]

Thanks nams, that's some great stuff. Im just finishing up a book by Deepak Chopra on synchrodestiny which is really interesting. Some things are a little spacey for lots of people, but I think its really applicable to trading. Everything starts as energy, a thought. Before we were created as beings, we began as just a thought, just energy. The cash that flows into our accounts starts out as just that...energy, a thought.

 

Only when one is really ready to learn will the teacher appear.

[brownsfan019 17]

Tin - are you getting all touchy feely on us now? :rolleyes:

[TinGull 10]

HAHAHA....nahhh, me?

[Soultrader 12]

Hey Tin,

 

I just picked up Finding True Magic: Transpersonal Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy/NLP. Im going to read this over next week when I have time and will post a book review on it when Im done. Starting to get into NLP?

[TinGull 10]

For the past 2 months or so I've been really getting into it. Let me know how that book is!

[Reaver 10]

I think the best way to describe how it all works is "Steel must be forged in fire".

I think it is about the most laconic way to put it.

[forexer 10]

I agree with brownsfan019, I go with the "it's better to regret something you did, than something you didn't do" moto.

[mea 10]

Please refer to "answers" sections.

 

For those that took the plunge and went full time....how did you do it?

 

Did you have money saved up,

 

Answer: Yes

 

did you have any bills to worry about,

 

Answer: Yes

 

what made you decide it was time to quit the full time job?

 

Answer: Having stratagies for all market conditions with at least 70% success ratio, usually 85-90% success.

 

Were you already independently wealthy

 

Answer: no

 

or did you just take a big chance and grit your teeth?

 

Answer: You never take chances. As indicated previously, if you have proven stratagies with at LEAST at a 70% success ratio. Then, you don't need to to chances.

 

Just trying to see if there are any suggestions from anyone who's been down the road as to what I should start working towards.

 

Answer: Finding stratagies with highest proven success ratio for all market conditions.

 

Experience of course is the best teacher,

 

Answer: Having proven stratagies for ALL market conditions and recognizing which market conditions you are encountering are the first step and correspond with experience.

 

but any information I can glean will help shorten the learning curve.....

 

Answer: Again, find proven, successful stratagies matcheed to market conditions and do not deviate from the rules which make those stratagies successful.

 

Currently I work full time in the mortgage industry, making decent money, nothing crazy. I work 8 hrs a day, come home and spend another hour or so looking at charts for EOD data trades....

 

Answer: Your on your way in regard to analyzing charts, just stay away from all indicators.

 

then I devote the next 3-4 hours studying and studying and studying some more.

 

Answer: Don't over analyze. The secret lies within the chart. Its staring you right in the face. People look, but they don't see. Its there, find it and when you do find it, keep it to yourself, as if too many people utilize it, the "powers that be" will use it against all of us.

 

Oh yeah, and spending time with my wife. LOL

 

Really ready to start working towards devoting full efforts to trading, and I am willing to take the long road to get there...but I would like any advice on making that first step.

 

THANKS.

 

In conclusion, I sincerely hope your endeavor is successful.

 

Mark

 

Thanks in advance for any info.