Woodies CCI technique.

[Nvesta81 10]

I'm new to futures and I have been exploring many different setups/techniques to use, one of which is the Woodie CCI setups. I find it very strange that this seems to work without paying attention to the price chart or key levels at all -- today I was following it along with their radio host calling plays and it caught a few good moves in the YM (that's the market I was paying attention to most, I could hear them call plays in other markets). I guess I'm just curious and wondering what some of you more seasoned traders think of this method, do you think it's bogus to ignore the price chart completely?

 

I'm really intrigued by this method. It seemed to work from my perspective but I'm too new to form a valid opinion.

 

Thanks.

[jperl 11]

I'm new to futures and I have been exploring many different setups/techniques to use, one of which is the Woodie CCI setups. I find it very strange that this seems to work without paying attention to the price chart or key levels at all -- today I was following it along with their radio host calling plays and it caught a few good moves in the YM (that's the market I was paying attention to most, I could hear them call plays in other markets). I guess I'm just curious and wondering what some of you more seasoned traders think of this method, do you think it's bogus to ignore the price chart completely?

 

I'm really intrigued by this method. It seemed to work from my perspective but I'm too new to form a valid opinion.

 

Thanks.

 

When I was first learning how to trade futures, I would visit Woodie's online site to learn some techniques. What I liked about it is they had live real time charts with commentary. It's a good place to get started. That being said, CCI is no better or worse than any other TA indicator contrary to Woodie and his followers. It is not a leading indicator as Woodie would like to believe. Woodie basically has some CCI pattern recognition entries, that win as often as they lose. So be careful. If you use them, try it in simulation mode for a while and see how you do.

[Nvesta81 10]

When I was first learning how to trade futures, I would visit Woodie's online site to learn some techniques. What I liked about it is they had live real time charts with commentary. It's a good place to get started. That being said, CCI is no better or worse than any other TA indicator contrary to Woodie and his followers. It is not a leading indicator as Woodie would like to believe. Woodie basically has some CCI pattern recognition entries, that win as often as they lose. So be careful. If you use them, try it in simulation mode for a while and see how you do.

 

Yeah no doubt, I'm not trading real money on this yet. Just getting screen time and exploring different 'ideas'. I have been keeping an eye on the VWAP and PVP as well, along with market profile concepts, pivot points etc. Also seeing if I can tape read. A lot to absorb as a new trader . The thing about Woodies that I like it is seems to be very simple, but like you said, I will not put all my faith in one single thing...

 

I still haven't figured out how to add the VWAP SD to my chart package, I use Amibroker, so I'll be searching for that later...

 

Good luck trading everybody, interesting sell off we had today.

[Soultrader 12]

Yeah no doubt, I'm not trading real money on this yet. Just getting screen time and exploring different 'ideas'. I have been keeping an eye on the VWAP and PVP as well, along with market profile concepts, pivot points etc. Also seeing if I can tape read. A lot to absorb as a new trader . The thing about Woodies that I like it is seems to be very simple, but like you said, I will not put all my faith in one single thing...

 

I still haven't figured out how to add the VWAP SD to my chart package, I use Amibroker, so I'll be searching for that later...

 

Good luck trading everybody, interesting sell off we had today.

 

Yea seriously... I just woke up (5:50am here) and turned on my S&P charts. WOW! Almost a 30 pt decline eh? Tokyo should be interesting today.:wohoo:

[namstrader 10]

I spent several months with the Woodie group and the simplicity was very intoxicating. I studied the many setups and learned quite abit. The thing that was so useful for me was that many other questions where answered for me by the other helpful traders. I began to have a foundation to sit upon by learning from the cci group. Then the politics and egos began to emerge and get to me after perhaps 5 months. It seemed to contaminate my progress and instead of being a follower, I said goodbye and knew it was up to me, and not relying on group identification. What I learned from Woodies cci club was about another indicator to use and still do. I use the indicator now with my own way of interpreting it rather than theirs. It is amazing how the cci group has a name for each setup like a shamu or zlr and when one setup fails, the opposite way trade has another name that is successful. I am in debt to those like Nicktrader and Kiwi who shared their knowledge with us all with such kindness. It had a very useful effect on me as a trader, however, cutting the strings eventually was necessary because to make it as a trader you must trust your own way of thinking instead of watching others. It was amazing how traders like Nicktrader, was making so much, while others could not (me included) using the same methods taught. He was a better carpenter with the same toolbox of cci setups taught. So go to the Woodie CCI club and eat the meat and spit out the bones. I do not identify with a herd, never did.

[walterw 10]

I spent several months with the Woodie group and the simplicity was very intoxicating. I studied the many setups and learned quite abit. The thing that was so useful for me was that many other questions where answered for me by the other helpful traders. I began to have a foundation to sit upon by learning from the cci group. Then the politics and egos began to emerge and get to me after perhaps 5 months. It seemed to contaminate my progress and instead of being a follower, I said goodbye and knew it was up to me, and not relying on group identification. What I learned from Woodies cci club was about another indicator to use and still do. I use the indicator now with my own way of interpreting it rather than theirs. It is amazing how the cci group has a name for each setup like a shamu or zlr and when one setup fails, the opposite way trade has another name that is successful. I am in debt to those like Nicktrader and Kiwi who shared their knowledge with us all with such kindness. It had a very useful effect on me as a trader, however, cutting the strings eventually was necessary because to make it as a trader you must trust your own way of thinking instead of watching others. It was amazing how traders like Nicktrader, was making so much, while others could not (me included) using the same methods taught. He was a better carpenter with the same toolbox of cci setups taught. So go to the Woodie CCI club and eat the meat and spit out the bones. I do not identify with a herd, never did.

 

Nam, I had just about the same experience like you... and CCI is a powerful indicator, but I knew I had to learn what was happening on the price pane S&R , price action etc... so I also did open myself to new frontiers and I carry the good part of CCI timing methods that so far I believe they are very easy and straightforward... now understanding price action has been so reliefing... at woodies club they trade blinded about whats really happening on the price pane and I knew that was not a good path... happy to share some very similar experience with you... cheers Walter.

[ANDREUA 10]

Hi guys. I have been trading WCCI for about 2 and half years. It takes much time to obtain all nuances, what should be taken and what signal should be skipped, but at the end it was worth it. CCI shows very good price activity and could be used another way then Woodie CCI classic methods.

WCCI community is very friendly and good place to start learning markets. But I must admit that the politics of community constrain sharing thoughts about using CCI, many good trades gone or dont share their ideas anymore on site.

[walterw 10]

Hi guys. I have been trading WCCI for about 2 and half years. It takes much time to obtain all nuances, what should be taken and what signal should be skipped, but at the end it was worth it. CCI shows very good price activity and could be used another way then Woodie CCI classic methods.

WCCI community is very friendly and good place to start learning markets. But I must admit that the politics of community constrain sharing thoughts about using CCI, many good trades gone or dont share their ideas anymore on site.

 

yes unfortunately Woodie is a kind of closed guy... you can not do your own research and interact with that comunity... many good guys like Dr Bob had to open their own site... (now they are as closed as woodie on their site too )...

[Cogniato 10]

Unl,

I peek in at the WCCI occassionally over more than 4 yrs. Very good, IF you combine it with internal analysis. The russell 3min chart trendline breakout of lows is extraordinarily profitable (that means GOLD) , IF you combine it with a turn up of market internals, i.e. advance/decline net avg, NYSE Tick avg upturn, Premium upturn, etc. Major moves. Just be patiant and take these trades only, like a hunter in a blind waitng for a dead-on shot. Try it and see.

 

regards,

Cogniato.

[hanz 10]

hence is it a system worth learning?

[Guest cooter]

Unl,

I peek in at the WCCI occassionally over more than 4 yrs. Very good, IF you combine it with internal analysis. The russell 3min chart trendline breakout of lows is extraordinarily profitable (that means GOLD) , IF you combine it with a turn up of market internals, i.e. advance/decline net avg, NYSE Tick avg upturn, Premium upturn, etc. Major moves. Just be patiant and take these trades only, like a hunter in a blind waitng for a dead-on shot. Try it and see.

 

regards,

Cogniato.

 

Could you post a pic that shows this trade in play?

[BlowFish 10]

hence is it a system worth learning?

 

Maybe. Personally I would learn to read price rather than a derivative of price.

 

My experience of Woodies (though this was a long time ago) was things where not consistently applied and I personally could not make the 'system' as presented work.

 

Cheers.

[TraderRalph 10]

Regarding Woodies CCI technique - I spent much time in that room. I recently found an article on ezine and went to the link where the complete article is and found this quite long article describing one trader's experience in the room. This article sums it up better than I can. I hope it's ok to post the link. If not just go to ezine articles and type in "day trading chat rooms" and the first link is the one. Otherwise try this: http://tuckerreport.com/articles/magic-indicator/

Hope this helps. If you believe what's in here, and I do, it might save you a lot of time and money and grief.

Ralph

[Nvesta81 10]

Regarding Woodies CCI technique - I spent much time in that room. I recently found an article on ezine and went to the link where the complete article is and found this quite long article describing one trader's experience in the room. This article sums it up better than I can. I hope it's ok to post the link. If not just go to ezine articles and type in "day trading chat rooms" and the first link is the one. Otherwise try this: http://tuckerreport.com/articles/magic-indicator/

Hope this helps. If you believe what's in here, and I do, it might save you a lot of time and money and grief.

Ralph

 

Thanks Ralph. The more time I spend in the CCI room the more I feel the same way as described in the article. I'm still wondering how they stay in this business trading for so long using just 1 indicator though if it doesn't really work, kind of makes ya wonder.. are they just rich and don't mind losing? lol. :p

[fxxx 10]

well, it proves if people put efforts to it - they can make work any system - (in fx, other markets or in life)

two polar approaches - naked warriors and "we don't need no stinky prices" - black and white -and most in-between (not just gray)

worth it learning - sure it does, you learn where you are and what will work the best 4 you...

 

p.s. Thanks: # Thanked # Times in # Posts - what is it kindergarden or some cristian camp?

[gg80108 10]

I dont think there is a winning system out there.. There are some gifted traders who use tools to help them win.. I myself have never made back the money I have spent on systems, software, data feeds, charting packages. This is gambling you have the same chance against the house in this arena. If you question the seemly successful traders in any room they all have been in the trading business for a while,, the rest of us come and go. You got to ask yourself, can I beat the best players in the world?? well, can you punk!!

[Kiwi 16]

Lets get real. The CCI does provide the basis for working trading if its used properly.

 

First: what is required?

 

People trade with the trend or countertrend. Lets say that trading with the trend is easier (longer moves, and more forgiving because if you get your exit timing wrong the retracement frequently won't reach your stop before the move continues, although obviously a trend will finish or do a larger timescale retracement at some time).

 

When you trade with the trend you either hang on trailing stops or you exit at targets that (for most people and strategies) should be at least twice as big as your planned losses.

 

So, can Woodies' use of the CCI help with this?

 

Yes.

 

Its a trend following indicator (its just the current price minus a CCI length simple moving average divided by a normalizing factor (so that reaching 200 is similar to reaching the 2sd bollinger band ... similar)).

 

If you wait until its above zero for a while then the chance is you have an up trend. If you wait for a pullback to zero or a little below you have a pullback of sufficient magnitude to feed liquidity into continuation. So you buy. Then you have to exit. How? When it hits the 2sd bollinger (200cci) or when it pulls back from that perhaps?

 

etc etc

 

 

So basically Woodie has taken standard reasons for entering and exiting a trade and framed them around a 14sma and 6sma based indicator. They can work. Do most people succeed with them? No. Do most people succeed with any trading method? No. Is it the best method? No. Most would do far better understanding trend, support and resistance, and price action (and where it and volume action are relevant) than messing with the cci. But is it that wcci doesn't work? No.

 

 

So what has to change? Study price based methods and yourself. In simplicity and understanding lies the holy grail.

[brownsfan019 17]

I dont think there is a winning system out there.. There are some gifted traders who use tools to help them win.. I myself have never made back the money I have spent on systems, software, data feeds, charting packages. This is gambling you have the same chance against the house in this arena. If you question the seemly successful traders in any room they all have been in the trading business for a while,, the rest of us come and go. You got to ask yourself, can I beat the best players in the world?? well, can you punk!!

 

The beauty of this business is that people like this are a necessity for others to make money. This person is frustrated and mad they've lost money. They thought they were buying an ATM machine and got just the opposite.

 

But, let's say thank you to our friend here and hope they get back in the game soon!

 

[gg80108 10]

My point is that you have a better chance of surviving Russian roulette 5/6 = 83%. Survival rate is much smaller in trading, sorry thats just what the numbers say over 90% die,, you disagree??.. No room or group of people can beat the odds.. Now don't get me wrong, its a great hobby "everyone spends their extra money on something", so you can have a little fun, but if baby needs new shoes, one way is as good as another, or just aim it at your foot, but eventually the odds catch up with you.

Think the risk disclosure by the CFTC should be more strongly worked.

CLICK

[sevensa 10]

My point is that you have a better chance of surviving Russian roulette 5/6 = 83%. Survival rate is much smaller in trading, sorry thats just what the numbers say over 90% die,, you disagree??.. No room or group of people can beat the odds.. Now don't get me wrong, its a great hobby "everyone spends their extra money on something", so you can have a little fun, but if baby needs new shoes, one way is as good as another, or just aim it at your foot, but eventually the odds catch up with you.

Think the risk disclosure by the CFTC should be more strongly worked.

CLICK

 

This has nothing to do with beating the odds and everything to do with how you approach it.

 

The part in bold is exactly why 90% "traders" failed. If you treat something like a hobby, then you should expect that your hobby, like all other hobbies, will cost money. This is why it is called a hobby and not a business and blowing out your account doesn't mean you failed since being a hobby, losing money was expected from the beginning.

 

If you approach it like a business, take the time to prepare, create a business plan, allow yourself enough time to learn like you would do with any other career, then you have a much better chance to be successful.

 

The 90% failure rate is very misleading. If 100 people, without any experience at all, decide to be pilots and start flying solo immediately, I bet 90% of them crashed within 6 months. On the other hand, if that 100 people take the time to prepare, get familiar with all the controls, understand the dynamics, practise in the flight simulator and then start flying a real plane, I would bet that almost all of them will still be flying after 6 months.

 

Would you consider flying as impossible to learn and against the odds because 90% of untrained, inexperienced people cannot fly a plane?

 

Another reason succesful traders are consistently profitable is because they know they are accountable and don't blame the odds being against them as an excuse not to look at themselves to determine why he/she is not profitable. This always much easier to throw your hands up and blame the odds and statistics or anything else than it is to take responsibility and admit the only reason you are not profitable is because of you.

[brownsfan019 17]

Well, my point is that the market needs people that think like you. Guys like me need people like you that think this is easy and you can buy your way to financial freedom. I need people that think this is a hobby. I need people that are so narrow minded in their thinking to try to take a stab at this.

 

Once again, thanks for trying to beat this game that is not easy to beat. Thanks for giving it a shot and thanks for contributing to the traders that did in fact make money while you lost it. Remember, when you lost, another trader won. You are failing to remember that. For every time you lost, your money was simply transferred to another account. That's it. Somewhere, someone was more than happy to take your money.

 

It's understandable that you are mad and upset. I would be too. You spent thousands trying to beat this business and now all you have is some tax losses. And here you are looking for company. Misery loves company, right? You'll probably find more support over at the yahoo message boards or even elitetrader for that matter. Good luck finding it here.

[BlowFish 10]

I didn't get the impression he was "mad and upset" I am not sure how you did. The figures for success, failure and scraping by, are much the same as for any other business. In that regard there is nothing 'special' about trading.

 

I wonder if a steady stream of small retail traders are needed to provide us with counter parties? For example when a hedge fund runs its self from many billions into liquidation that provides lots of food for many us? Just a thought that occurred to me whilst typing this. Mind you I don't buy into this 'the big guys win and the small guys lose' idea. The commitment of traders report would suggest otherwise. This is the opposite side of the that particular coin and is also hyperbole.

 

I am surprised DB nominated it when he usually takes a hard line against hyperbole and rhetoric.

Edited October 14, 2008 by BlowFish

[HAKUNA 10]

IMO, CCI is just like any other indicator, RSI, Stochastic, MaCD etc and another tool for the trader, in the 20ema/pattern thread Bearbull has pointed out that it is upto the trader to make indicator work, it does not perform by itself

[gg80108 10]

Even the Browns can beat the odds and superbowl champs, once in a while,, but thats not how the smart money bets!

[brownsfan019 17]

Even the Browns can beat the odds and superbowl champs, once in a while,, but thats not how the smart money bets!

 

A great win for the Browns.

 

Now go find somewhere else to find some other losers to talk to.