Holding yourself accountable - idea...

[brownsfan019 17]

I think most of us at some point or another could use that additional accountability that we don't always have, esp when trading by yourself. I find it too easy to get lax and fall behind, which is a slippery slope.

 

So, my idea was to create a thread here that we can all use to help keep ourselves accountable to each other. Being a smaller group, we could really help each other out to get to that next level, whatever that next level is. An example of that I am talking about can be found here, but I want to take it a step further, as I mentioned in this TL thread.

 

The catch of course being that 1) there must be regular participation (daily for daytraders) and 2) there's enough interest by the 'regulars' to even want to do this. To help gauge interest, I attempted to include a poll with this so vote in the poll and feel free to post some ideas/suggestions as well.

 

I think we need to keep the format quick and easy. I'd like to just make a template that we all use. My idea is:

 

# OF SETUPS:

# OF SETUPS TAKEN:

% OF SETUPS TAKEN:

WHAT P&L 'SHOULD' HAVE BEEN:

ACTUAL P&L:

NOTES:

 

The idea being that for those that do not take every setup, myself included, that we work on that. If you take all your setups, then those points are not necessary. I'm sure we can get a few more ideas as well.

 

Note - I just realized that some may shy away if P&L #'s are disclosed. I'll leave it up to the majority as to whether we include that or not. I don't want someone to think that it's not worth participating if trading a smaller lot size. I have no idea what types of traders are here in terms of P&L's, so I don't want that to be a deterrent for anyone. I'd rather have 10 of us actively staying accountable to each other and not disclose P&L vs. 3 of us doing it with P&L numbers. Just an idea.

 

James - is there anyway to make a template that can be used somehow? Just something to make this even easier for everyone.

[brownsfan019 17]

I think I have a better idea than posting actual P&L numbers that will still help each of us w/o playing 'big bank'.

 

Instead of posting the actual P&L numbers, we can post gross and net point totals. Example: +3.25 ES pts.

 

I think posting actual numbers is very useful and this way, numbers are posted w/o having to disclose your personal numbers, which I understand some may not want to do that.

 

So a revised template could look like:

 

# OF SETUPS:

# OF SETUPS TAKEN:

% OF SETUPS TAKEN:

WHAT GROSS PTS SHOULD HAVE BEEN:

ACTUAL GROSS PTS:

NOTES:

[jperl 11]

Not to crazy about a fill in the blanks form. Would rather see a blotter showing all trades with P/L.

[brownsfan019 17]

Not to crazy about a fill in the blanks form. Would rather see a blotter showing all trades with P/L.

 

To me a blotter is simply a 'look at me'. And that's what elitetrader does. No point of copying what is already being done. Think outside the box.

 

I'm looking for a way for us to help each be accountable to our trading plan. Posting a blotter does none of this. There's no way to tell how many trades you had available and how many you took. I would like this thread to serve more than a 'look at me' purpose.

 

I should also mention that this idea comes from reading many of the threads and the PM's I've received since being on the forum. It appears to me that the active members here usually want more than the normal 'fluff' seen at ET. And I think a blotter post is just that - some fluff that doesn't do much to help YOU and EACH OTHER. Size of the P&L is not necessarily what's important; whereas following your plan 100% is, as mentioned in the other thread about mind games. Once you are consistently following your plan, the P&L will follow in my opinion.

 

We'll see what others think...

[james_gsx 16]

I like the idea and I think it could work here. At ET they would crab at you for every trade and tell you how terrible it was, even if you made money. But here I think you could really get a lot of good constructive criticism to help eachother out. I think it would work, and being as there are a few newbies here to futures it would probably be very beneficial.

[MrPaul 10]

Brownsfan,

 

I think it is a cool idea. I'm not going to commit just yet until I am certain I will actually stick to it. I have a few different ways of journaling/recording trades etc. and I'm not sure if I'll actually be consistent to come and re-record everything online.

 

Interesting idea none the less...

 

[Nvesta81 10]

Another thing we could do is post a chart of either a really succesful trade we did and explain our analysis, or a really awful trade we did and try to figure out what we did wrong...

 

That could serve as some good learning material for everyone.

[walterw 10]

Another thing we could do is post a chart of either a really succesful trade we did and explain our analysis, or a really awful trade we did and try to figure out what we did wrong...

 

That could serve as some good learning material for everyone.

 

I like that one Unleashed... thats a very nice way of being helped and help others, at the same time be accountable... we all can write down statistics without any proof, I can tell you I made 70 YM point today and used 40% setups... ???:rolleyes: now If I show you my trades on a chart it gets much more accountable... thats my two cents here... cheers Walter.

[brownsfan019 17]

There is an element of honesty required here fellas. Even posting a chart after the fact does not solve that potential problem. And, as I have stated previously, I am not interested in divulging my entire trading plan here. Chastise if you will, but that's my personal feelings.

 

I am looking to accomplish something that is quick and easy. Something that you can perform in 30 seconds or less (assuming you track your #'s during the day). The charts and blotters and other screenshots sound great now, but I have to wonder how much follow thru there will be 6 mo's from now when you are asked to provide at least one chart per day detailing your trade setup(s). Sounds great now, but time will tell.

 

As you can see, I am not interested in going that direction, but it appears there is some interest so I would suggest someone start a thread going in the direction of posting charts with annotations and what expectations there are going into it. I've learned that most traders are goal oriented, so you must present a goal to be achieved.

 

I'm glad that my idea got some brainstorming going but someone else will have to take the lead on this as I will not be participating.

[james_gsx 16]

I would be willing to post charts and all that other stuff, but it would take up a lot of time. But I am definitely up to using your template, I think it would help me a lot - mainly because it's easy to hide mistakes from yourself, but when you lay them out to the world you start to realize very quickly where you went wrong and how to avoid it again.

 

One thing I do is take my gains too quickly, I just want them locked in. Then price rallies again and it hits my initial target. It's easy to tell myself at least I made money, but if I had to show that to everyone that I was jumping too early then I really think it could fix the problem... if that makes any sense.

[Soultrader 12]

Great idea brownsfan. Give me a few hours while I look into this to see if I can get some kind of unique format for posts. I may open up a new forum for this.

[Soultrader 12]

I have dedicated a new forum just for this. It can be located under Technical Trading and is labeled "Traders Log". All new threads in this forum are dedicated for trade logs and have a default template style. Please take advantage of this section. Thank you.

[Nvesta81 10]

 

I am looking to accomplish something that is quick and easy. Something that you can perform in 30 seconds or less (assuming you track your #'s during the day). The charts and blotters and other screenshots sound great now, but I have to wonder how much follow thru there will be 6 mo's from now when you are asked to provide at least one chart per day detailing your trade setup(s). Sounds great now, but time will tell.

 

 

 

Fair enough. I just thought perhaps one chart per week to supplement the #s could be informative, sort of like a trade highlight of the week, a home run or a huge failure - at everyone's discretion of course. If you rather not post your trading plan, that's cool too.

 

For what it's worth I like your idea as it is, I just meant to add a suggestion.

[brownsfan019 17]

Fair enough. I just thought perhaps one chart per week to supplement the #s could be informative, sort of like a trade highlight of the week, a home run or a huge failure - at everyone's discretion of course. If you rather not post your trading plan, that's cool too.

 

For what it's worth I like your idea as it is, I just meant to add a suggestion.

 

unleashed - I like the idea of posting charts for those that want to; however, for someone like me that is doing 20+ trades per day that will get cumbersome and time intensive real quick. Which in turn could lead to less and less participation. If there's a way to post charts in the forum area James made, have at it! I just would prefer if it's not a requirement.

[tony1d 10]

Nothing wrong with booking profits. Letting a gain turn into a loss because it didnt hit your target is a bad thing psychologically for the next trade. I do that also but only on countertrend trades which i term hi-risk. What you might do a little differently is take a partial and let the rest run, ensure the partial gain and stop loss make the trade at least breakeven plus a tick or so to cover commissions. that way you've covered the trade and gave it more time to run. I am reading the book "Trading in the Zone" to help me with the mental aspects of trading. Very enlightening and highly recommended.

[brownsfan019 17]

James - thanks for designing the new forum area, it looks nice.

 

My only concern is that you have it laid out so that each individual trade must be entered. Again, my hope was to keep this simple and quick and if you trade once or twice a day, this works fine. I typically trade 20+ times per day so inputting each individual trade will simply take too long.

 

For me to actively contribute, this log must:

1) Be QUICK

2) Be EASY

3) Be SIMPLE

 

I have no idea what type of frequency others trade here, but for anyone doing a decent amount of round trips each day inputting each individual trade at the EOD may work for a few days or even weeks, but I doubt there will be much follow through.

[Soultrader 12]

Hi Brownsfan,

 

From the earlier posts, it seemed like you wanted to track trades at the end of the day? I can add further input boxes under the new forum. What sort of ideas do you have?

 

Would you want me to add the following input boxes as well?

 

# OF SETUPS:

# OF SETUPS TAKEN:

% OF SETUPS TAKEN:

WHAT GROSS PTS SHOULD HAVE BEEN:

ACTUAL GROSS PTS:

[brownsfan019 17]

Hi Brownsfan,

 

From the earlier posts, it seemed like you wanted to track trades at the end of the day? I can add further input boxes under the new forum. What sort of ideas do you have?

 

Would you want me to add the following input boxes as well?

 

# OF SETUPS:

# OF SETUPS TAKEN:

% OF SETUPS TAKEN:

WHAT GROSS PTS SHOULD HAVE BEEN:

ACTUAL GROSS PTS:

 

I personally would only use the input boxes that you have quoted here. Just an EOD thing is what would work easily for me.

[Soultrader 12]

I personally would only use the input boxes that you have quoted here. Just an EOD thing is what would work easily for me.

 

Revised and updated.

[brownsfan019 17]

Revised and updated.

 

James - thanks, that works well for me, but maybe others would like the other format as well. I don't want you to change something just for me. I guess we can leave it as is and see how it goes or maybe create 2 templates... Just an idea, but thanks!!

[brownsfan019 17]

Follow up question - should we create a new thread each day for each member or will this be grouped by day or member name?

 

For example, starting Monday the 16th, should everyone that is participating create their own thread and do so each day, or should we create a 'master' for each day and we all post into that day? I think we should try to group these together somehow, whether that's by day, by member name, by instrument being traded... some way to keep it cleaner and easier for everyone to follow.

[Soultrader 12]

Follow up question - should we create a new thread each day for each member or will this be grouped by day or member name?

 

For example, starting Monday the 16th, should everyone that is participating create their own thread and do so each day, or should we create a 'master' for each day and we all post into that day? I think we should try to group these together somehow, whether that's by day, by member name, by instrument being traded... some way to keep it cleaner and easier for everyone to follow.

 

Good suggestion. I will look into this. Meanwhile the only way would be one thread per user per day. Grouping it would be difficult as it will require customization, but I may try to figure out a way to group them by diff days or member.

[brownsfan019 17]

REMINDER

Use the new forum area that James created for us!

There are 10 members that voted YES in the poll, so I expect to see AT LEAST 10 logs for Monday, July 16th.

 

Link to new forum area: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f101/

 

This little project will only be as good as we make it!

 

Follow Your Plan & Good Trading!

[james_gsx 16]

can we include equity swing trades?

[Soultrader 12]

can we include equity swing trades?

 

hi James,

 

Yes of course. I will make a subforum under traders log that can input individual trades.