Fear of Success

[Guest cooter]

The hardest part about going on your own path is listening to all the people who doubt you. If I got a dollar for every time someone told me I couldn't do what I'm doing now, I'd be one of the most wealthy guys on this forum. One kid seemed to make it his personal goal everyday to tell me how I couldn't do something. He would say I couldn't get a job at a trading firm, couldn't become a professional, because I dropped out. He said it wasn't possible and that my life is just a big f*** up. Well guess what, I make a lot more money than he does and he was forced to join the military because all he did was sit around all day and play on the computer.

 

You got it, kid! That's the hardest part of trading - ignoring folks who haven't a clue what you do, but are jealous and envious because you can do it, and they can't.

 

Besides they figure all you are doing is sitting around all day playing on the computer anyway, you couldn't possibly be making a living, could you?

 

[torero 10]

Yeah, that's what my wife said when she thought I wasting endless hours day after day sitting in front of the computer. When I finally made money, she realized I did spent my time doing something worthwhile. People judge others prematurely without the benefit of the doubt and happens a lot. Just when you discard a person thinking he has no potential, they will come back to haunt them.

[Soultrader 12]

I agree completely. I did not have a single person supporting me as a developing trader. Even my folks could not agree on what I did nor try to understand at all. People are so judgemental which is why even firms wont employ ppl majority of the time without credentials, education, etc.. I have always been a stubborn person and that stubborness did help me on my journey as a trader as I refused to quit regardless of what people said. With absolutely no support, the only person I could rely on was myself. You have to believe in yourself strongly in this game. And most of all, you have to want to succeed so bad that you are willing to do whatever you can to achieve success. This includes your own personal belief system and even your own personality. I had to adjust my mentality to that of a trader in order to trade successfully. Those who make it make trading seem so easy... but you never see what they had to go through to get to that point. People who assume everything in life can be achieved easily... are those who have never tried going after what they really want but fall victim to the "I am satisfied with whatever lands on my lap." I used to feel comfortable with what I had... but going to the US and meeting unbelievable wealthy ppl woke me up and I realized, there was alot more to achieve in life. You never know how poor you really are until you see the rich.

[torero 10]

Very profound statements there James, especially the last sentence. James: trader-warrior-philosopher

[thetradingdoctor 10]

This is a profund and stimulating thread and should be read by everyone who is trading or thinking about trading. Trading is among the most solitary of all professions. The majority of people simply do not understand the committment, devotion, amount of time and study and the extraordinary demands on mind, body and spirit that trading imposes.

 

I believe that many are "called" to trading. They will do whatever it takes, to be sucessful, despite the naysayers, those that try to discourage them and put them down. This is a rough game, filled with deception. It takes both humility, compassion for self and a killer instinct. Most people do not have the courage or tenacity to rise above the ocean of mediocrity which surrrounds us in so many aspects of our lives. In order to be a successful trader, that is what must be done.

 

For anyone reading this who has doubts, who is struggling, who feels that things are desparate and there is no where to turn, I encourage you to post here and let this group help you through it.

 

Remember, in the final analysis, no matter how many bells, whistles, fancy charts, blinking lights, the guru du jour, expensive newsletters and software, seminars, webinars, books and everything else that we think ( for one bright shining moment) is the Holy Grail, every single answer to trading success is inside of you.

 

Trading is a mental game and a game of matching wits against millions of other people who you will never meet or never see or never know. To compound this situation, this is a game where the only real rules are those you make for yourself. Of course, there are exchange rules, SEC rules, etc, but the real rules are those you make. You enter these rules into an open, adaptive and complex system which is always moving. There is no parallel in life outside the markets to the experience of trading the markets. Our brains are not hardwired for success in this type of situation since we are so used to haviing this rule or rule that is imposed upon us from without ( every profession has its own rules and regulating boards, etc). In the market, you are your own regulating board and your rules are your own.

 

Additionally, we are in a completely different situation from most in life, i.e. we are in the realm of financial risk every time we put monies into the market.

Money is the last great taboo of our culture. People willl tell you just about everything in their lives except how much money they have, how much money they want, what they really think about people who have more or less money than they do, etc. Money is the last great taboo. Additionally, money is the single most addicting of all legal substances. That means emotions ( the old, limbic, rat brain) goes into absolute short-circuit where money is involved.

 

I will stop here, as I have gone on too long today. Please remember that this is your money, your time, your decisions, your rules and--most importantly--your mental, emotional, financial , physical and spiritual capital that you are putting into this amazing profession. Please remember to use them well, to take care and nurture them. The single most important element of your trading is YOU. Your true trading plan is every feeling, thought, action that you are afraid to face and for which you will not take personal responsibility.

 

Until soon-- I thank you all for this fantastic exchange!

 

Thanks!

 

Doctor Janice

[james_gsx 16]

Today was the busiest day of the year for Nordstrom, and being in womens shoes that meant we got a TON of business. During the busy 12 hour shift I noticed something interesting, the reason why I strive to beat everyone else. I believe it comes down to knowing the guy next to me, and knowing that I am beating them. Call it a big ego, but this is one major drive behind my success and ambition - knowing I beat the guy next to me.

 

In trading, there isn't a guy next to me. Therefore, there is no one for me to compare myself with, we could post returns and all of that online, but it's just not the same. I have to find a way to be competitive with myself, to set goals for myself and to accomplish them - not go for them so I could beat the man next to me.

[torero 10]

 

Additionally, we are in a completely different situation from most in life, i.e. we are in the realm of financial risk every time we put monies into the market.

Money is the last great taboo of our culture. People willl tell you just about everything in their lives except how much money they have, how much money they want, what they really think about people who have more or less money than they do, etc. Money is the last great taboo. Additionally, money is the single most addicting of all legal substances. That means emotions ( the old, limbic, rat brain) goes into absolute short-circuit where money is involved.

 

Hi Doc, you touched on a great topic about us and money. How does a trader go about separating his trading without thinking about money? The entire world flaunts their riches, it makes it a final motivator for people to do things they themselves swore would never do. But in trading, money is a factor but not as many would assume.

 

I have overcome it but it was a long, inefficient process. I thought maybe there is a quicker way to do it. I found a solution was to start with small lots but there must be another method in preparing to go through this process.

 

Thanks for the immense enlightenment.

[thetradingdoctor 10]

You are most welcome re: "immense enlightenment", Torero, and I thank you in return for your kindness!

 

Making money in the markets is a byprodut of doing the right thing at the right time. This means following a backtested successful trading plan and remaining disciplined.

 

Among the first posts I put on this section of the message board was something to the extent that the markets are neither bullish nor bearish. They are neutal. The markets ebb and flow as millions of traders make decisions based on their beliefs. It is the trader who is the true variable in the markets. Each of us is a variable.

 

I have written and spoken extensively on the topic of money as taboo and addiction. In my opinion, money is more addicting than any other legal substance and likely more addicting that heroin or crack cocaine.

 

How do you break this addiction and put trading into perspective? You train your brain. You lay down synaptic strategies that modulate the emotions of fear, greed, disgust, anger, envy, euphoria, and every other emotion which springs from the limbic, rat brain by forcing it to "check in" with the logical, cortical new brain. If you have any questions about my most recent article

"This Is Your Brain On Trading" please do not hesitate to ask me? This is my first attempt to actually show traders what goes on in their brains when they make decisions and the first time I have written in such detail about the concept of synaptic strategies.

 

That said, and remembering all of the above, here is what I have learned:

 

When you really, truly, deeply, madly and honestly believe that trading is simply a game of probability everything in your brain changes and you are on the road to "entraining" succcessful synaptic strategies. The reason for this is because concepts such as: right or wrong and losing or winning take on an entirely new significance. You will come to understand at the deepest levels of your brain that of the next 30 trades, something like 20 will have a positive outcome and 10 will have a negative outcome. You can test and backtest this with your system. What you do not know, and cannot know with any certainty is which of the trades will work and which will not work. You also cannot know with any certainty how much money the market mistress will be kind enough to give you through these positive trades.

 

If you are able to think in probabilities, and to give up attachment to outcome, you will most likely come to the point where you realize that making money is nothing more than doing the right thing at the right time.

 

I hope this helps a little bit?

 

Thanks, Torero and all of the wonderful brains on this thread!

 

Doctor Janice

[darthtrader 10]

Just to add, I've always found great inspiration from the great misers from market history if its hard to seperate money from trading.

Niederhoffer I think gets into this in one of his books or on daily speculations.

John Paul Getty was the world's richest man in the 50s, but I think I read a story where he was on a date at an ice skating rink and spent an exta half hour in a line in order to save 10 cents. In today's dollars i think that would be basically being a billionaire and waiting in line to save 1 dollar.

Hetty Green was the world's richest woman at one point basically.

"Green was mainly interested in business, and there are many tales (of various degrees of accuracy) about her stinginess. She never turned on the heat nor used hot water."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetty_Green

[TheRumpledOne 14]

"This Is Your Brain On Trading" that was a great SFO article.

 

Also comparing trading to "only swinging at the pitches you can hit" really hit home ( puns intended ).

 

Trading without thinking is what has to happen... all reaction. Just like hitting a baseball. You don't have time to think - you just see and react. Sometimes you get a hit and sometimes you don't.

 

"Swinging at bad pitches" causes the losing trades. As soon as I do it, I know it. Why do I do it? I get sucked in to the market rather than waiting for the next good pitch. To avoid getting sucked in, I just repeat "wait for your pitch" over and over... that simple.

 

I never concern myself with what others are trading, how much they are making, what systems/indicators they are using, what's the hot trade of the day, etc... I just trade the same stock and currencies day after day after day. It's actually pretty "boring" most of the time. It's only exciting when I mess up!

[Anna-Maria 10]

Trading without thinking is what has to happen... You don't have time to think - you just see and react. Sometimes you get a hit and sometimes you don't.

 

....I just trade the same stock and currencies day after day after day. It's actually pretty "boring" most of the time. It's only exciting when I mess up!

 

That's a great post!

 

I particularly like the highlighted comments, I like those a whole lot.

 

If you're adequately capitalized in the first place, got yourself a small toolbox of goodies which do the job often enough (strategies for your favored situations) to keep your acc't happy, then fear doesn't come into it.

 

Don't know bout you, but I do this to make s*** loads of dollars, period. Always have. I'm out of here well before I hit 50.

 

My brother (who I respect as a trader immensely) doesn't actually like the goddamned business we're in LOL, but like he say's: until someone is dumb enough to pay him an insane amount of money for using his common sense, then he'll run down this clock until he bores himself to death.

 

I don't care what anyone say's - money is the only reason I/we trade. If I wanted to have a wonderful time (at work), I'd go be a CEO at a fancy shoe company!

[BlowFish 10]

 

___Snip___

 

When you really, truly, deeply, madly and honestly believe that trading is simply a game of probability everything in your brain changes and you are on the road to "entraining" succcessful synaptic strategies.

 

___Snip___

 

Doctor Janice

 

The problem comes (I suspect) even if you 'truly madly deeply' believe this at ever concious level - and - even if work diligently to ingrain it into your subconscious. Many of us still have this basic 'protection' mechanism that things it is helping us. Very interesting concept that money is the last great taboo, it is no wonder that if trading has stripped large portions of money away from us that the subconscious believes it is helping by protecting us from the market. Of course it usually gets us in late or out early in its effort to reduce our exposure.

 

As yet I have not found a truly effective way to re-train those subconcious 'protection' mechanisms.