Today's Trading Hell

[brownsfan019 17]

I know that tape and pivot levels are important things to look at, and volume etc... but I guess that's what I'm really wondering, is what other 'clues' do you guys keep on your radar to feel comfortable enough to pull the trigger when it's time? I mean I often second guess myself in stocks when I reach a S/R level, because things look like will bounce off and just when you think you confirmed the move it changes.. how can you really 'know'? At the end of the day I think the only real advice one can offer to a newbie is to learn money management above all else.. because there is definitely a gambling element to this, but I would like to hear more from veteran future traders. I'm eager to learn as always...

 

Oh, if you guys could point a newb to some "can't skip" reading material, I would appreciate it!

 

unleashed - there's no such thing as 'clues' that work for all traders, all the time. I personally like candlestick analysis and would recommend books by Steve Nison. Others would recommend a variety of things and no one is right or wrong. That's part of the learning process - finding what works for you.

[AbeSmith 10]

I assure you gentlemen, and ladies if there are any reading this, that, um...this topic is not a joke. Let me rephrase, it was not meant to be a joke. The facts I have stated were all true. I would like to thank everyone again for their patience and above all honesty. I appreciate it very much and it has been a tremendous help to me.

 

This site is filled with some of the nicest and intelligent people I have every come across in the internet. The combination of nice and intelligent is not easy to find, and I feel very happy to have found it.

[AbeSmith 10]

For my 2 cents....I still consider myself new at this; it's been about 10 months now since I started day trading futures. I had started out trading option spreads before that and learned a lot about the market during that period. Day trading is intense, and I'll give my little bit of advice assuming the thread isn't a joke.

 

Like brown said...these markets are serious professionals who are out there to take your money...and they don't even send you a "thank you" card!! On the first day of learning how to play the violin, do you think you could go and play with the Boston Pops? Nope. I'm still in the "high school" orchestra with my trading....maybe moving up to the collegiate level soon.

 

 

10 months later and I'm now just getting the hang of things. I've been trading 1 contract for almost this entire time, and really just this week have started trading 2 since I feel MUCH more comfortable with how I'm trading. So, my first bit of advice...trade as little size as possible. Even maybe start day trading something like a few shares of SPY or DIA or something where your account can't get hit hard while you learn. You'll be learning forever...seriously.

 

Use a hard stop. There's very few people who are consistently disciplined enough to use a mental stop and use it each and every time without fail. I know I'll never do that. Hard stops are the way to go IMO.

 

Definitely get a mentor. I wish I had done it sooner. Someone who can guide you through the learning process.

 

Excellent advice Tin. Thank you very much.

[Dogpile 10]

Agree with the mentoring part. Linda Rashke was my mentor. http://www.lbrgroup.com. Think its like $100 per month to get the transcripts to the trading room ($375 per month for full membership and live trading room access). There is a ton of content there for $100 if you are learning. I spent a year in that trading room and learned a ton. But first read her book 'Street Smarts'... then join the room and print off the transcripts and read them and review the charts they post on 'Daily Educational'.

 

my second favorite book is 'Markets In Profile' by Dalton. Great book on understanding 'value' versus 'price'. he also has a useful newsletter that you can sign up to receive at http://www.marketsinprofile.com

 

John Carters 'Mastering The Trade' is o.k. this could be a useful purchase for newer traders as it has a lot of good overview material.

 

--------

 

I remember my first year. I overtraded my account big-time. All my good trades were wiped out by my overtrading. many days, I would be up big and then fritter most of it away. then I would lose money on another day and slowly bleed my account down.

 

so my top advice would be this: don't overtrade your account. you need to build a collection of profitable set-ups. this takes time. these set-ups need to fit your personality/style or else you won't truly believe in them and give up on them. each set-up might only occur a few times per week on average. or one might occur 3 times in one day and then not for 3 days. so you have to build up a library of set-ups and trade a few different contracts as sometimes 1 just sucks for a while. personally, I favor YM and NQ. The both are cheap per tick and have all the liquidity you will ever need.

 

Linda Rashke makes a small number of points each day but she makes money almost every day and will use big size when a clean set-up arrives.

The beauty of futures is you really just need to make a small number of points to make a living. Overtrading will chop you up. Disciplined trading with high % set-ups and bigger size is the way to go as far as I am concerned. It is so nice to wait for your set-up, catch a few points --- and have your day made.

[AbeSmith 10]

Agree with the mentoring part. Linda Rashke was my mentor. http://www.lbrgroup.com. Think its like $100 per month to get the transcripts to the trading room ($375 per month for full membership and live trading room access). There is a ton of content there for $100 if you are learning. I spent a year in that trading room and learned a ton. But first read her book 'Street Smarts'... then join the room and print off the transcripts and read them and review the charts they post on 'Daily Educational'.

 

my second favorite book is 'Markets In Profile' by Dalton. Great book on understanding 'value' versus 'price'. he also has a useful newsletter that you can sign up to receive at http://www.marketsinprofile.com

 

John Carters 'Mastering The Trade' is o.k. this could be a useful purchase for newer traders as it has a lot of good overview material.

 

--------

 

I remember my first year. I overtraded my account big-time. All my good trades were wiped out by my overtrading. many days, I would be up big and then fritter most of it away. then I would lose money on another day and slowly bleed my account down.

 

so my top advice would be this: don't overtrade your account. you need to build a collection of profitable set-ups. this takes time. these set-ups need to fit your personality/style or else you won't truly believe in them and give up on them. each set-up might only occur a few times per week on average. or one might occur 3 times in one day and then not for 3 days. so you have to build up a library of set-ups and trade a few different contracts as sometimes 1 just sucks for a while. personally, I favor YM and NQ. The both are cheap per tick and have all the liquidity you will ever need.

 

Linda Rashke makes a small number of points each day but she makes money almost every day and will use big size when a clean set-up arrives.

The beauty of futures is you really just need to make a small number of points to make a living. Overtrading will chop you up. Disciplined trading with high % set-ups and bigger size is the way to go as far as I am concerned. It is so nice to wait for your set-up, catch a few points --- and have your day made.

 

Excellent post Dogpile. Thank you.

[thrunner 10]

AbeSmith,

Don't let all these negative talks about personality, suitability, ability, 'this thread is a joke' etc get you down. Even some of the great traders have blown out many good size accounts as newbies (yes, even the aforementioned LBR, who has mentored to dozens if not hundreds).

You really need to get more reading on this subject under your belt, which as a lawyer, you should have no problem acquiring. You should also read this article to know how difficult this game can be: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f30/winners-and-losers-of-th-zero-1894.html

After all that reading, you will get a better idea whether you could hack it in this game (most newbies, perhaps 80% or more can't).

After that, if you decide you want to give it a go, master a few setups and practice, practice, practice with a good simulator. IMHO, IB does not have a good simulator, try other platforms more suitable for futures trading.

[james_gsx 16]

Theres a lot of negativity in this thread, maybe it's just rubbing off on me the wrong way since I'm a newbie as well. But I would expect that kind of stuff at Elite Trader, not so much here. I have a ton of respect for the veterans here, and I would expect more constructive criticism rather than what seems to be negative bashing and making the OP out to be an idiot. If I'm just reading this wrong then I apologize and ignore what I just said.

 

1 - You should always know your targets before you enter a trade. Know where your stop and target are, if you get stopped out who really cares? You're doing your job by preserving your capital.

 

2 - Did you go into today with a plan? Try writing a plan and noting where all your pivot points, or whatever you trade, before the day starts. If you have a plan, make sure you follow it. It doesn't matter what kind of trades are in this plan because over time you will learn what works with you and what doesn't. You wouldn't go into battle without a plan on how to conquer the enemy, treat your capital the same way.

 

3 - You seem to have a lot of emotion. I hope you take thorough notes throughout the day and review them at night. This way you can probably see a lot of your emotion and learn how to avoid it. Emotion is a part of life, but should not be a part of trading.

 

Stick with it, never give up, and you'll do well.

[brownsfan019 17]

I don't think anyone was trying to be negative on purpose (myself included), we were just taken back by how 'newbie' this thread was. We're not talking about whether to trade the ES vs. YM or trading w/ pivots vs. mov averages. We are literally talking about trading with real money after browsing some books at B&N.

 

Hopefully Abe has learned his lesson and realized quickly how serious this game is and how quickly your funds can be eaten away if you don't have a solid game plan. There's some suggestions here for Abe to consider and over time things should improve. Abe just needs to understand that it may take YEARS to get there.

[Guest cooter]

One man's "negativity" is another's "constructive criticism".

 

There are no "do-overs" in futures trading, so you'd probably want to understand what you are doing going in before you even make a trade.

 

If you're expecting some of us to hold his hand and say "there, there", well think again. The market just won't be so forgiving, so it's best that he learns the absolutes about trading now - before his slush fund is depleted.

 

He's already demonstrated to himself and the markets that he hasn't yet grasped the subtleties of trading futures, so it's time to man-up and get a grip, and learn the basics from the ground up.

 

Three years of law school to get a law degree, yet he's still not passed the bar?

 

This is indicative of a serious lack of commitment and follow-thru, far as I'm concerned. I think he'll need the same amount of money and time to master the markets and gain a solid understanding of how to trade futures for a living.

 

Just my two cents' worth....

[Dogpile 10]

I thought this was a thread that could have easily been ignored by traders more experienced than Abe but instead I think there is some pretty decent advice in this thread for him to chew on. Nobody called anybody an idiot. Naive is the right way to put it.

 

Come on, the Barnes and Noble 'didn't buy the book' stuff is friggin funny. Abe, I wish you the best.

[Nick1984 10]

Can't really add much to what has already been said. I think that one of your most blatant mistakes is that you're overtrading. You put down 12 trades in a day and you just started! If you're not sure where you're going then you're really eating away your account with commissions. Also stick to 1 contract! Get on a simulator after setting up your own system and trade that simulator like you would with your real money i.e: 1 contract at a time.

 

You are also way too emotional with your trading and are fraught with indicision. You need to learn to master your emotions and not get too caught up with how much money is on the line. At your stage you're not going to be earning a living off trading so you should really have a job to suppliment your income and redirect surplus funds to trading. Therefore why get so emotional over a few bucks which dont really make a difference in the wholel scheme of things. Things go bad and you lost 50 bucks big deal. Be thankfull that you're loosing 50 bucks today on 1 contract and not 500 bucks with 10 down.

 

Also your charting package sucks the big one. Your pivots aren't even extended across your chart, thats why I suspect that you failed to notice that the pivot was right above your entry.

 

I'm a noob to and have only really started in futures for really only a few weeks seriously after coming from stocks.

 

Stop trading with your real money, invest it in some books which you actually read from cover to cover and start treating this like a business!

[james_gsx 16]

Okay well then maybe it all come across wrong and I apologize for that.

 

Now, I have seen a lot about mentorship and things like that in this thread. I can get a two week mentorship through my firm but I'd have to fly out to Vegas for two weeks and I believe they focus more on equities than futures, but having someone watch my emotion may not be such a bad thing.

 

But anyways, back to mentorships for futures traders. How many of you have actually used one and what were your experiences like? This sounds like it could be very beneficial.

[Guest cooter]

I'm sure some traders thought this thread was a joke when they read this question by the OP at the end of this post:

 

 

And I have a question I was hoping someone could help me: How does short selling affect the price?

 

Any help, as always, would be very appreciated.

 

Law school grad who doesn't know this - or can't find the answer? You've gotta be kidding me, right?

[brownsfan019 17]

Easy on the law school grad cooter! :p

 

I learned while I was a broker and schoomzing attorneys that while they think they know everything, they know very little. Many assume that graduating law school equals infinite knowledge, but it doesn't!

[Guest cooter]

I think I'm more perturbed that he can't find the answer - or rather, that he hasn't bothered to.

[Nick1984 10]

Lol yea by his own admission he hasn't really invested too much in reading so I'm not surprised that he doesn't know what short selling is, but its not hard to find out what it is. A quick google search will answer that!

 

As a law school graduate I'd assume that he must have done commercial and trading law at some point so I thought he'd know what short selling is from that!

 

I did a couple of law subjects which related to the regulatory environment for business and also for financial product trading & giving advice on financial products and our legislation here in Aus has sections regarding short selling which give clear definitions of it.

 

As a law graduate you should be pretty bloody good at reading boring crap like legislation so trading literature should be not so bland by comparison. You can only get out what you put in after all!

[TinGull 10]

Great points Tin!

 

Here's my question and I'm sure others are thinking this - for those recommending a mentor, where do you go/start? I personally never really had a personal mentor and I'm sure many would like to know where you went and/or how you found one. There's your obvious vendors out there and who knows where to start there...

 

Just wondering how you guys found a worthwhile mentor - whether paid or not - and if you want to, post contact info here for others to consider.

 

I've got 3 people who have helped me tremendously, 2 of them help for free, one I pay. Leroy Rushing on these boards is my trading coach that I pay for his time. He's been critical is helping me define my high odds trading opportunities and risk management.

 

Another is my girlfriend. She's been instrumental in helping me with the emotional aspect of trading. Amazingly cool and collected and really wants to see me succeed at it. She realizes how long it *could* take to get to where I want to be.

 

The last person whos played a major role is just a fellow trader who cares enough to want to see me succeed. I guess he sees it's possible with me, so that's awesome. We chat pretty much every day during the market hours.

 

As for finding one and how to go about it...I just used Leroy because he came to these boards offering help. I know James (soultrader) wouldn't allow any loony onto the boards and collaborate with them unless they were top notch, and Leroy certainly is. His prices are certainly fair for the guidance he gives.

[AbeSmith 10]

Thank you all for the great advice and attention. It has been very helpful. Thank you Dogpile, Paul, dalby, brownsfan019, ItalianSharp, TinGull, cooter, thrunner, james_gsx, and Nick1984, for reading this topic and giving your opinions. And thank you to those who are contacting me privately to offer advice. I have read through all your posts and will come back to this topic and read them again.

 

Clearly the theme of responses is that I have not invested enough time in reading, researching, and practicing on a simulator and perhaps later starting out with just one contract. You have also clearly identified that I’m being impulsive, impatient, emotional, and not having a trading plan. Caution is what I’m hearing, and what most or all of you have been telling me.

 

The information that you have provided is excellent and I want to thank you again for it.

 

Good luck to everyone today. And forever.

[MrPaul 10]

Thank you all for the great advice and attention. It has been very helpful. Thank you Dogpile, Paul, dalby, brownsfan019, ItalianSharp, TinGull, cooter, thrunner, james_gsx, and Nick1984, for reading this topic and giving your opinions. And thank you to those who are contacting me privately to offer advice. I have read through all your posts and will come back to this topic and read them again.

 

Clearly the theme of responses is that I have not invested enough time in reading, researching, and practicing on a simulator and perhaps later starting out with just one contract. You have also clearly identified that I’m being impulsive, impatient, emotional, and not having a trading plan. Caution is what I’m hearing, and what most or all of you have been telling me.

 

The information that you have provided is excellent and I want to thank you again for it.

 

Good luck to everyone today. And forever.

 

Abe,

 

Don't forget to check out the library too, I know for a fact the Dallas Libraries are packed with great books on trading and Irving lets you access and check out books without being a resident. I have donated allot of trading books there so I know there are some good ones.

 

The low barrier for entry in the trading game can be deceiving, Take your time and enjoy the process...

[AbeSmith 10]

Abe,

 

Don't forget to check out the library too, I know for a fact the Dallas Libraries are packed with great books on trading and Irving lets you access and check out books without being a resident. I have donated allot of trading books there so I know there are some good ones.

 

The low barrier for entry in the trading game can be deceiving, Take your time and enjoy the process...

 

Thanks Paul. The library is a great place. Maybe they have wireless internet too, for free.

[MrPaul 10]

Thanks Paul. The library is a great place. Maybe they have wireless internet too, for free.

 

I know Irving does, If you want any advice on good books there PM me anytime I've literally read the entire finance section less the personal finance and economic books, well over 100 at least! :thumbs up:

 

 

P.S I forgot to ask you earlier, but what is the main reason you decided to start speculating? Other than the obvious profit *potential*

[james_gsx 16]

Is anyone as bored as I am right now? I've never seen the tape move so slow.

[AbeSmith 10]

I know Irving does, If you want any advice on good books there PM me anytime I've literally read the entire finance section less the personal finance and economic books, well over 100 at least! :thumbs up:

 

 

P.S I forgot to ask you earlier, but what is the main reason you decided to start speculating? Other than the obvious profit *potential*

 

 

I know Irving does, If you want any advice on good books there PM me anytime I've literally read the entire finance section less the personal finance and economic books, well over 100 at least! :thumbs up:

 

 

P.S I forgot to ask you earlier, but what is the main reason you decided to start speculating? Other than the obvious profit *potential*

 

Hey Paul. I went to the Garland Central Library since I'm not a city of Dallas resident. Their selection was not impressive. Here is what they have for day trading:

 

http://ipac.nmls.lib.tx.us:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=1O842A582479Y.40664&menu=search&aspect=basic_search&npp=100&ipp=20&spp=20&profile=nmlp&ri=&index=.SW&term=day+trading&aspect=basic_search#focus

 

The books I got are:

 

The Guts & Glory of Day Trading by Mark Ingebretsen

 

The Day Trader's Survival Guide by Christopher A. Farrell

 

How the Stock Market Works 3rd ed. by John M. Dalton

 

To answer your question of the main reason I decided to start speculating, I can tell you that some advantages of trading are:

 

1. Freedom to work flexible hours from the comfort of home.

2. Freedom to move from place to place without turning in a 2 week notice or vacation request.

3. Freedom from constant interaction with the same people day after day, the typical 9-5 job.

[MrPaul 10]

Hey Paul. I went to the Garland Central Library since I'm not a city of Dallas resident. Their selection was not impressive. Here is what they have for day trading:

 

http://ipac.nmls.lib.tx.us:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=1O842A582479Y.40664&menu=search&aspect=basic_search&npp=100&ipp=20&spp=20&profile=nmlp&ri=&index=.SW&term=day+trading&aspect=basic_search#focus

 

The books I got are:

 

The Guts & Glory of Day Trading by Mark Ingebretsen

 

The Day Trader's Survival Guide by Christopher A. Farrell

 

How the Stock Market Works 3rd ed. by John M. Dalton

 

To answer your question of the main reason I decided to start speculating, I can tell you that some advantages of trading are:

 

1. Freedom to work flexible hours from the comfort of home.

2. Freedom to move from place to place without turning in a 2 week notice or vacation request.

3. Freedom from constant interaction with the same people day after day, the typical 9-5 job.

 

Hey Abe,

 

My opinion on those three books are as follows:

 

 

The Guts & Glory of Day Trading-Misleading and dated

 

The Day Trader's Survival Guide-Not worth your time.

 

How the Stock Market Works-Good primer on basic aspects of markets

 

Hope that helps:thumbs up:

[AbeSmith 10]

Hey Abe,

 

My opinion on those three books are as follows:

 

 

The Guts & Glory of Day Trading-Misleading and dated

 

The Day Trader's Survival Guide-Not worth your time.

 

How the Stock Market Works-Good primer on basic aspects of markets

 

Hope that helps:thumbs up:

 

Thanks Paul. You have sure read alot of book.