Comments on IOAMT??

[MPETrader 10]

Well, just for reference...AlleyB who posted earlier...is Alex Benjamin who has recently partnered with the IOAMT room. So perhaps when he wrote his statement he was not financially motivated, but he most certainly is now...and who knows what is actual relationship was when he wrote that.

 

Surprising (not really), I still don't see anyone saying that they are making money taking Billy's trades...

 

-MPETrader

[luke24.5 10]

I was in IOAMT from the time that it was a free site until a couple of years ago but because of my work I rarely got to sit in it for an entire day. It was definitely on a PT basis. This I know for sure. Bill Duryea is a phenomenal trader. He is not on this or any other board with an alias trying to lure people into his room.

 

I don't know what bad habits an earlier poster alluded to, But Bill rarely has a losing trade. When he first started the room he showed a picture of his screen in RT.

 

AFA the Auction Market theory being useless as an earlier poster mentioned, it's only useless if you cannot read interpret the market generated data and predetermine the likely action and where the auction will rotate. This is what Bill tries to teach. Like Alex said, his pace is a little frenetic for some.

 

Another of Bill's unique qualities is that he can make 3rd grade math sound like a college calculus course. I found him somewhat hard to dialog with through typing and chat. He also cursed too much for my taste. I have kids in my house and had to turn him off way to often for "F bombs"alone.

 

Another part of his skill set is his entry method of entering on as many as 4 levels. It's easy for an inexperienced trader to lose more than he's made on his last four wins by letting a trade run through him. You must be able to read changes in market behavior on the fly. Hard for newbs to do. Also it's very hard if you're undercapitalized to sit under water and add to your position.

 

I don't know what he charges now but it was 12-1500 for the seminar and $175 /mo. for the room when I left. At least when I was in the room, you did not have to take the seminar to be in the chat room. Whatever you pay up front never changes, so I was still paying 39.95 /mo + a fee for Omnovia (total $65) and I never had to pay to retake the seminar no matter what the price went to when I left the room two years later.

 

In summary, note that no one who implies he's just a marketeer was in his room. Virtually all I know about trading I learned from Bill. But I had to learn that I can't trade like him. I had to adjust his principles to suit my personality and my bankroll before I ever could make it work.

 

He trades volume and pattern. His thought process includes Wyckoff, MP, VSA and market rotations.

 

On a scale of 10, I give him a 10 as a trader and a 4 as a teacher.

[alleyb 10]

As time moves on so things evolve and change

It is right for people to be skeptical, it is right for people to challenge but we live in a world where there is a cost of doing business and the old adage of there is no free lunch comes to mind.

Yes it is true it was discussed between Billy and I in the fall of 2007 to be partners as it was referred to above. The idea was for me to merge my website into his. It became clear within a couple fo days of those discussions that that was never going to happen and to date my relationship with Billy and IOAMT stands as it was originally posted. Nothing has changed. I do not get remuneration from him but he does afford me the luxery of particpating in his room and allows me to freely post details of my website. Much in some respects as when I particpated with John Carter prior to writing Chpater 17 in his book Mastering the Trade.

Billy is in terms of his day trading purely about reading the tape. Yes you can dress it up as Auction Market Theory - For that is the title of his website/institute - Yes he does bring in an element of MP and other things but because his focus is narrow IE he only trades the S&P there is then an (imho) overly concentration on the one product.

My website is the largest source of MP materials collated in one place. I spend 3 hours per day updating my site for it is also a global financial portal and for that the remuneration/subscription is the equivalent of a part time job at less than the minimum wage. I really do not mind whether people join my site or not for let me say first and foremost I am a trader who trades for a living.

As to whether anyone makes money following Billy that surely is not the criteria for within trading following other people and their calls is not the way to success. Surely it is a case of extracting the best from here there and everywhere to marry that infomation up with your own and then to develop a style and risk management that is yours. From this the concept of value comes to mind which has to be described as being in the eye of the beholder.

Value for and of the information that is presented and evaluated. Value for the result that it produces.

IE Value is different to the same person at different times for different reasons much as it it is manifested in the market place.

The whole basis of MP is that the information as collated is in reality a data warehouse and from that warehouse one extracts probabilty scenarios to aid in the decision making process to be on the side of the dominant trader. Billy presents that in a form of the Bid/Ask volume analyzer that he reads and discusses and explains constantly throughout the day talking about scenarios that are likely to unfold in advance.

What is clear is that Billy is developing a database that imho has limitations but it is a good start and may in time prove to be a good compliment/addition/update to Don Jones's cisco-futures.

The reason why I say it has limitations is because Billy's database does not have the capability of being interrogated. IE it is a static database not dynamic

I started this reply with the concept of making sure the record was correct re my association with Billy and I apologise for the lengthy and mild deviation in the discussion

[Anonymous 11]

...I can tell you about the auction process...

 

There are buyers and sellers. More buyers move the market up, more sellers move the market down.

 

Honestly there is nothing more about it than that.

 

-MPETrader

 

Wrong. For every buyer there is a seller. More enthusiastic buyers than enthusiastic sellers, move the market up; more enthusiastic sellers than enthusiastic buyers move the market down.

[Sparrow 10]

In a transaction yes, but an order in the order book doesn't need to have a counter party until filled.

[MPETrader 10]

thanks for correcting me, but your simplistic response just shows why so many people fail at trading. They take what is told to them verbatim, and repeat it like they have some actual knowledge. the truth is, trades at the bid/offer have nothing to do with "Buying and Selling". For you don't know what orders are closing and opening orders...some buying "is actually shorts covering and vica versa". also markets are huge, and institutions do things like hedge, etc. So "buying", can be just hedging a short position. Even the scenarios here are simplistic. There are quant algorithms, arbitrage, etc...all which appear the same way but are not the same trade...

 

so to say that you can read the bid offer data and interpret it as to buyers and sellers is just ridiculous. But again it makes for a great sales pitch.

 

As for the person that says Billy rarely loses...Billy first of all scales in...so of course he will be correct the majority of the time. But the issue is when he loses, it is so enourmous that it tends to wipe out gains of several days.

 

Also as I said, i have friends that sat with him for extended periods of time LIVE, and he never made a dime...

 

That is the beauty of running a room. nobody knows where you are getting filled, getting out, etc. If you could guarantee a fill at any price, trading would be a sinch. And that is what these con artists rely on. They can make claims of fills, and sell you that they are making money real easy.

 

I don't get anything out of being critical, just I don't want to see others fall for the same trap, and wasted time/money I and many of people I know have...

 

All these trading rooms are all the same...

[drago1 10]

I have been a member of IOAMT for several months. I think Bill and the whole environment of the trading room is great. Yes he gets ticked off when trades go against him - but who doesn't? There is nothing in my experience with Bill to suggest he is even remotely interested in "selling" anybody anything.

 

This is not a room where you can turn your brain off and expect someone to make money for you. My experience is that he is an excellent trader who is steps ahead of the market turns. You will not find any new Gods in the room (proprietary indicators ) - just learning to read supply and demand. Best trading experience I have ever had - and I have survived this business full time for 6 years.

[jthanki 10]

I got into trading 2 years a ago without much success untill I came across IOAMT site and Bill. He is finest trader bar none. From my experince if you sign up and join Bill's chat room do not trade for atleast 6 months but try and learn his methods. For first two months just watch him after that open a sim account and take trades that Bill takes and keep a detail journal of your trades for next two months.

 

From this experince you will find if his style of trading suits your personality. For Next two months try and take trades that you feel comfortable with and develope your own strategies and follow them without hesitation. Again keep detail log of your trade such as why you entered into a trade, why you exited a trade, was it profitable.

 

Once you are consistantly profitable with your sim account then and only then go live. This has been my journey and now I don't depend on Bill's call but rather I use his calls as a confermation. I also am very selective in when I take trades and I stick to my strategies. I don't take more than 4-5 trades per day where as Bill will have 10- 12 trades per day or more.

 

Trading is very personal and unless we all have same emotional make-up and same amount of expereince, same amount of funding, it will always be hard to trade like a Bill.

 

All I would suggest is learn from Bill, find out what makes you tick, work out a detail plan and follow the plan.

[Minetoo 10]

jthanki, I have to disagree with you. Sim trading someone else's call for at least six whole months would be complete torture for me. There is absolutely no substitute for live trading real money in a real account. Real losses will rapidly sharpen your senses, focus your thinking and (hopefully) teach you critical money management skills necessary for survival in this harsh business. Pretend success on a simulator would set you up for monumental challenges when dealing with the emotional component of live trading.

The fact that it worked this way for you is exceptional.

Moreover, cherry picking trades instead of just taking all your setups (assuming the method is proven and valid) is a recipe for disaster.

[jthanki 10]

Minetoo:

 

Once I developed my own strategies then I traded them on sim for more than 2 months and I tracked my trades in great detail. Once I was comfortable with them then I moved to live trading and have stuck to them.

 

Initially I did not have consistent strategies and was not using sim trading as I would with live account. Once I developed my strategies I traded on sim as if it was a live account. I wanted it to be as accurate as possible. During the sim phase of my trading I refined the entry and exit strategies developed optimum time to trade. This helped me take emotions out of my trading.

 

Now I focus on set-ups and take every trade that meets my strategies. I also do lot of home work prior to market opening and have very good understanding of what trades I want to enter in to and do adjust as market evolves during the day.

 

If are going to use sim then you must be honest with it and trade like you would as if it is live account.

 

You may not agree with my journey but this is what has worked for me.

[Minetoo 10]

jthanki,

your diligence is commendable. We may disagree on method but the only metric that counts is $ucce$$.

[Marsupilami 10]

I got into trading 2 years a ago without much success untill I came across IOAMT site and Bill. He is finest trader bar none. From my experince if you sign up and join Bill's chat room do not trade for atleast 6 months but try and learn his methods. For first two months just watch him after that open a sim account and take trades that Bill takes and keep a detail journal of your trades for next two months.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi jthanki, thanks for the info. Do you find that Bill is able to teach his setups/methodology well so that one could reproduce his trades after practicing ? I have often heard that while he is a good trader, his style of trading is quite discretionary and hence it is hard to become a profitable trader by following him.

 

Thanks.

[jthanki 10]

If you read my previous tread. Bill is very good teacher but unless you have his expereince, his emotional control, his account size and are willing to trade exactly like him then you will do ok.

 

I could not trade like him because of my own emotinal limitations. I can only trade within my account size and emotional control.

 

He will treach you how to read the dual auctation market and rest is up to you how you can fit his method in your trading.

 

It all boils down to trust. Most traders bring baggage from previous trading expirences.

[mjp 10]

Interesting discussions. No one has mentioned anything about Alexander. Anyone have any experience with his room/teaching style, etc?