How best to fight the mental game...

[walterw 10]

Sorry Brown, it wasnt my intention to irritate you, wont bother anymore... lol Walter.

[Happyguy 10]

Brown,

I agree with you that it is your right to share whatever amount of your trading methodology. From reading your posts, I think you have shared a lot with us already. Therefore, there is definitely no pressure for you to disclose any more details.

 

However, if you choose to share, I think it shoud be in the public forum areas for all interested members to see and learn.

I find it obnoxoius the suggestion by some member that you should only disclose your method in the 'premium members' sections only. Just think of this: if you want to donate some money to do some social good, you would not give the money to Bill Gate or Warren buffet, would you ?

 

Once again, you are doing a good job, Pleasse keep it up and i am sure that a lot of members will agree with me that we are learning heaps from your postings.

[PYenner 10]

Doc

Only you can say how much meat you want to put in a free sandwich.

Its for you to say.

[Guest cooter]

 

However, if you choose to share, I think it shoud be in the public forum areas for all interested members to see and learn.

I find it obnoxoius the suggestion by some member that you should only disclose your method in the 'premium members' sections only.

 

 

I find obnoxious the naive suggestion that newbies, lurkers and trolls alike get treated on the same levels as those who have demonstrated a willingness to participate and interact for a sustained period here.

 

Why? Premium members are those who have contributed or posted the most to this board. Why should mere lurkers, with nothing to offer in return, gain the benefit and wisdom of our hard work and experience?

[thetradingdoctor 10]

I apologize to everyone that I do not know how to use this board well enough to realize that there has been all this discussion on this particular thread. I have been happily posting on the Altruistic Trader thread, completely oblivious to what has been written here! That is my error due to inexperience with this particular Forum. As soon as time permits, I will go through the posts on this thread and respond. Also, I would like it to be known that I have not received one penny in payment for being on this board, either from James or from any of you. I am attempting to impart some wisdom to you and the benefit of many years of experience in the markets and in life. I seriously don't like being called a "vendor." I am not taking any new coaching students as my plate is completely full right now and I have a long waiting list. I came here to share experience with you because James asked me and I liked what he was attempting to do. I will tell you more later and willl make some kind of a response to the posts on this thread. Thanks!

 

Janice

[walterw 10]

From the very begining my intuition told me that you Janice did not come to our forum to sell us anything... I know that you know that our forum is unique, we have a very special "spirit" being thought by Soul here that has created a unique habitat here and the experience of interacting here at TL is life/trading changing... I know you will give us a lot, but i am sure you will also grow with us... I even challenge you as a trader to feel free to interact even on our technicall arena... I know you are also a trader, so feel free to give and receive not only on the psichological topics but also on the technicall ones... here we have old seasoned traders with great experience and open mind to new evolutions as newbies with a great freshness and incredible inputs... so thanks for being here, feel at home... we are people from all parts of the world, Japan, Argentina, Usa, Australia, UK, Spain to name a few... from here to some time maybe we will make a great meeting in Tokio with Soul... making new friends from all over the world... Welcome Janice, and God bless you... cheers Walter.

[thetradingdoctor 10]

Thank you so much, Walter. Your words are wonderful and I appreciate your insights and intuitions greatly. Also, thanks to each of you who has supported me and had patience with me in the process of learning about this site.

 

I want to say a couple of things about the brain and trading. You can buy many fancy programs, lots of bells and whistles, etc. You can go to seminars held by so-called great trading wizards who make all kinds of promises to you about how much money you will make if you just do this or that. Usually, this involves buying their software or a bunch of trading DVD's or some newsletter subscription, etc. I did everything when I first started trading around 1996. It was a total disaster for me, and I ended up doing nothing but losing money for three years. I seriously wanted to give up because I just couldn't do it. I thought everyone was smarter than I was and that people were making all kinds of money and I wasn't. It was a very dark time for me. I took about six months off and started to find my own way to trade. Slowly, steadily I brought myself back from losing all the time to only losing some of the time. I started making money, not much, but a little at a time. I began to think about all those so-called wizards and great traders and wondered this: if their system/newsletter/ books and tapes, etc are so great then why are they selling them? Why aren't they off on a desert island somewhere basking in the sun as their system is trading making them tons of money? Why are they selling any of their secrets to anyone?

 

I had to find my own way. The Holy Grail was not out there somewhere. It was inside of me. It was about my brain and the way my brain works. It was not about someone else's brain. All of the answers were inside of me. I was looking in all the wrong places, when I should have been looking in the mirror. I made a committment to help traders all over the world to find themselves within themselves. You will hear this from me over and over again. You may or may not want to hear it, but it is my experience and it is what I have to give you. All the answers are inside of you.

 

Your brain is unique. It is the most powerful trading tool you will ever possess. With one quadrillon connections ( called synapses)--more than all the stars in the known universe-- it is the most powerful object in the known universe. The way that you begin to train your brain is by studying one market intensely every day. You learn everything possible about that market( eg ES or GZ) until you have watched it so often and so intensely that your brain begins to see patterns. 60% of traders are primarily visual, so I am using sight as an example. Once you see patterns repeating you train your brain ( through repetition) to recognize trading signals. What happens when you train your brain in this way is that certain synaptic connections become what is called entrained or recruited. This means that they are strengthened and that they learn to see a pattern, recognize that you have seen it before, feel good about it and take the trade. This entire process of entrainment of brain neurons is what goes on in the process of learning to trade.

 

If you are interested in my writing more about this, please let me know and I will?

 

Also, for those of you who appreciate what I have to teach and share with you, I am intensely grateful. For those of you who are complaining about me and feel that I am not giving you enough, I am deeply sorry for any pain you are experiencing. Unfortunately, I am unable to control that. I can only control myself and give my best to you. If you are suffering, I send you love and compassion. I don't know any other way.

 

Thanks!

 

Janice

[bakrob99 11]

Thanks for the nice post... I am spending more time working on my brain than anything else these days as I have a setup/plan that has an edge and just need to trade it. I am profitable - but not as much as my plan is ...

 

Interesting - I thought that more research and analysis which proves/supports the edge would help me overcome the latency in taking signals - but now I realize that I must deal with my "emotional side" NOT through reason but by other ways ...

 

Your posts help me ... as for the others who complain ... I don't really concern myself with their issues.

[PYenner 10]

Thanks Doc

I could use some talk on "chart stress", after 3 hours of jumping at positive and negative signals I look back at a chart that went nowhere useful and wonder why the hell I reacted so strongly to it.

Then I come to this forum and can find myself wanting to fire bullets at any slightly "off" attitude from others, more perceived than real perhaps. The markets are a bit like trench warfare.

It seems to flow over into the real world too easily.

 

The chart entrainment seems to be making me jumpy or paranoid(?) towards other people. Don't know what to make of it.

[torero 10]

Merging the two worlds is very difficult. This is the reason why moving from demo to real trading is difficult because the stakes are real and perishable. To overcome that, it's matter of time to give in to accept that fact that (all is unpredictable and perishable) is when we stop hallucinating and look at charts the way we look at charts when we're NOT in a position.

[thetradingdoctor 10]

It takes time. Lots of time. If you plan ahead by doing homework every night, then review in the morning, it helps. Also, learning to manage your stress is critical. Trading is among the most stressful of any occupation. If you find yourself frustrated and anxious, you are likely not trading from a place of calm and not breathing properly. What is your exercise regimen, including any meditation, yoga or pilates?

 

Thanks!

 

Janice

[walterw 10]

 

If you are interested in my writing more about this, please let me know and I will?

 

 

 

 

Oh yes, its a very interesting topic and I would love to learn more.... thanks Walter.

[PYenner 10]

Thanks Torero

Yes, I made things worse by demo trading on a $100K demo account which is a breeze compared to a startup account.

The stakes are so much greater when your equity is limited and when you are trading out of your own money instead of out of profit.

On top of that is the awareness of exponential potential, which might change a person's life, or simply waste their life chasing a false promise.

 

Doc

Oh dear, confession time.

Meditation? puts me to sleep (all go or all stop).

Yoga or pilates? try zombie hours, dozing off at the desk, coffee and smokes to stay awake, arrgh.

Okay bullseye on that one.

My frustration comes largely from impatience, forex moves a turtle speed.

Yes it is all in the mind isn't it?

 

The size of the stake has a lot to do with it.

I am comfortable with a certain level of risk or gambling, but as the stakes get higher there comes a struggle with risk aversion.

The strangest thing of all is that when I do take some damage it bothers me less, I can sleep like a baby afterwards, weird!!

[walterw 10]

What is your exercise regimen, including any meditation, yoga or pilates?

 

 

I personally on the morning read the Bible and meditate on it, also pray.. after trading I do long Park Walks by the lake...(very relaxing, lots of trees an oxigen there) at night I always try to see some funny movie... cheers Walter.

[PYenner 10]

Sounds like a nice life Walter.

Yeah, the air around trees is special, a good place to be.

[notouch 10]

Definitely a healthy body is the way to a healthy mind. Sitting in front of a computer all day is not physically or mentally healthy. I go for jogs by the beach to relieve tension.

[walterw 10]

Sounds like a nice life Walter.

Yeah, the air around trees is special, a good place to be.

 

Oh yes, Pyenner.. God is very good with me... I also enjoy having some large trees here at my home backyard and frontyard... been able to interact with nature I asume might stimulate some brain chemicals.. could that be the case Doc ?... the same happens to me when I interact with God, it stimulates my Spirit... cheers Walter.

[thetradingdoctor 10]

Yes, Walter. You are getting good negative ion charges from interaction with nature, especially away from pollution in the city. This is one reason why clean air seems to energize body and brain. Exercise is a wonderful way to relive stress and to keep strong in body and mind. Even if you do only 30 minutes a day, it is quite beneficial. Just today, I read a report that regular exercise is very helpful in early -onset ( age 30 or so) Alzheimer's disease. It appears that exercise in this situation improves mood and memory. It makes sense that anything which brings blood flow and oxygenation to the brain will help with mind and mood.

 

Prayer and meditation are wonderful ways to bring us closer to the source of our beliefs and to ground us. A grounded trader is almost always a better trader.

 

Thanks!

 

Janice

[brownsfan019 17]

Hey guys,

Sorry if I detracted from the thread earlier. While the forum can obviously provide a nice resource, as cooter and myself have stated, it's hard to stay motivated to keep sharing when it's just a handful of us actually doing it and then when that doesn't seem to be enough, you just take a step back and say why bother...

 

Good to see the discussion continuing, I'll try to jump back in after catching up.

[brownsfan019 17]

Oh yeah,

 

Make sure to vote for me in the trading quote contest!! Hurry before time runs out!!

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f97/trading-quotes-june-2007-votes-1879.html

[BlowFish 10]

My frustration comes largely from impatience, forex moves a turtle speed.

Yes it is all in the mind isn't it?

 

Maybe not all :-) I am a little loathe to say this as you have identified the most important thing (the mind). This is a point it takes many traders (me included) years to get to.

 

Having said that from your original post it does sound as if you where trying to 'force' a non trending market. Now there is nothing wrong with trading congestion but it requires a pretty different approach to when the market is trending. Quickly identifying whether a market is trending/non trending or put another way whether the direction is up down or sideways.

 

This may be the mind again of course - I know that sometimes I suffer perceptional bias. But it might also be a more easily dealt with 'tecnhical' problem.

 

Cheers.

[PYenner 10]

Hi Blowfish

 

Yes the mind is the greatest friend and the greatest liablity.

Doc has just opened my eyes to the fact that I treat myself worse than I would treat a slave, so much for my mind.

 

I was running a long term trade for the first time.

A month in the stalking, a week in this final rise.

The steps were coming about a day apart but being used to following my trades I insanely attempted to track a continuous trade continuously.

 

I think in future I will have to do as others do, set a timetable and to hell with what I miss. That or just get used to leaving a trade running "blind".

 

I seem to have made enough mental adjustments to read the market ok.

That has been the first priority.

But have failed totally at managing myself, don't even have a plan for that.

It was more myself that I was forcing, I had actually waited for the market to come to me, but then all the sideways nonsense was doing my head in.

 

Thinking about what Doc said, I began to realise that the bulk of my life has been run by instinct rather than reason, kind of driven but to what real purpose or gain? Only rarely have I stepped back and chosen to set my instinctive nature aside and take a more deliberate approach.

 

I see many here talking of the deliberate steps they take to ensure quality of life, or mind. I have to start managing myself much more sensibly.

 

In the last 15 years, Xmas day is the only day off I have had.

A few years had months of 80 hr weeks, the record was a 120 hr week.

That is the sort of nut I have been, but it had been the only way to get ahead and out of a hole.

 

Now I work part time but the mental slave driving thing still goes on.

The last time I tried to have a walk on a beach it failed, the schedule in my head just kept on reciting what needed to be done.

 

Somewhere down the line life somehow got too serious.

A lack of alternatives had a lot to do with that.

Time to make myself smell some roses.

 

Can I just say thanks to some really decent refreshing people I have encountered here. I think I have just passed the 5% test if you know what I mean Very exhausted but very happy to finally have found a vocation, next priority may be a vacation. Cheers to all.

[thetradingdoctor 10]

Hi PYenner,

 

Trading can become a trap if we do not monitor ourselves. There are some clear analogies between addiction to trading and addiction to other things in life. That said, trading is a very difficult and demaning profession. There are not many traders who are able to step away, look at their lives ( body, mind and spirit) and make a conscious choice to live life to the fullest. When you think about it, how much harm are you doing to yourself and to those you love if you do not take time for rest and relaxation? What is that doing to your body and to your relationships? I hear from burned out traders a lot. Some of them get really sick. A couple of months ago, one of the younger traders had a heart attack sitting at his screen. He is 35 years old. I think that it is always good to strive for balance in life and in trading. It is the most difficult thing you can do, because there is something about trading that "calls" us to it. I don't know if it's the money or the challenge or a combination of both. In any case, it can be "addicting." Any respite from the game ( even something as simple as learning to breathe properly or taking a night off to go out or taking the weekend away from the study) will allow your brain and body to regroup and refresh. I learned the hard way about the absolute disaster of trying to be superwoman and working myself nearly to death. It was not a pretty picture, I assure you. It took several years for me to reconstitute myself and to really understand that when I lose myself, I lose everything. Keep on keeping on and please consider taking some down time?

 

Thanks!

 

Janice

[walterw 10]

Nice reflexions Pyenner... certainly that change will enlight even more the quality of your trading.. cheers Walter.

[thetradingdoctor 10]

Have a wonderful weekend, All! I am going to take some time off this weekend to do an aerobics benefit. It will calm me, clear my mind and hopefully raise money for a good cause. Please take care, and try to do something wonderful for yourself and for someone you love. Time is all we really have.

 

Namaste

 

Janice