Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

zdo

Principles

Recommended Posts

For the record.

You are not encouraged to read the following ‘stuff’. It is a partially re-constructed re-posting of censored (and some probably soon to be censored) material from dbp’s subforum... for the record.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera »

Re “No trades from the previous session. ...”

Quote:

The great twentieth-century composer Karlheinz Stockhausen once made this comment on the nature of composing: “The marvelous thing about composing is that you make thousands of arbitrary choices, how big to make the notehead, how large to draw the clef, how long to draw the stem of a note. None of these decisions changes the sound of the music, but by making those choices, you learn to be decisive ”

 

As you practice making choices, you begin to develop an instinct for making the right choices, the ones that lead to the most successful realization of what you want to create. Who do you think has the higher probability of success, the person who has avoided making choices or the person who has made tens of thousands of choices and who has had a chance to learn the feel of right and wrong choices?

 

Choices take practice. It is a developed ability. The more you choose, the better you will choose.

 

I recommend that you practice making small, quick choices whose outcomes have a low risk factor ...

Robert Fritz

 

Keep on gettin' up, G

 

 

all the best,

 

zdo

 

zdo: ?? re:

http://cdn3.traderslaboratory.com/fo...7multiprep.png

 

Gamera,

How are you able to garner any different information from (or more information) between your 10 minute charts and your hourly charts?

 

zdo: On the longest time frame charts you utilize, do you know the percentages (over time) of how accurate ‘what you see’ is?

Are you able to assign real-time confidence levels to that accuracy?

 

zdo: On the ‘medium’ time frame (1 hr? 10 min ? ... 10 min) frame charts you utilize, do you know the percentages over time of how accurate ‘what you see’ is? Are you able to assign real-time confidence levels to that accuracy?
jpennybags:

Gamera...

 

I took just enough time to do a cursory read of your past posts in this thread, and I see a pattern in your trading. Without being able to get inside your head (observe your trading day-to-day) I would be reluctant to offer advice... people do what they do, for whatever reason that they do what they do, because they need to do what they do (yikes... that was no help).

 

I've been doing this for a while, and I believe the best answers come from within. In that context I would offer that possibly you may want to try eliminating the "prep work" that you do each day. I think you may be setting up biases that reside in the back of your mind that then influence your trading decisions on the faster chart (the chart you are actually trading). I don't want to say too much in this regard, as too many words often lead to confusion of the message.

 

It's just an observation... nothing more... something to consider.

 

Best of good fortune...

zdo:

Gamera, Do you think dbP would also rate you at 7 (on a scale of 0 (not) to 10 (very)) on how congruently your method and trading mirrors the intended essence of the SLA method?

 

Have a great weekend all

 

jpennybags:

Gamera... Just another example of seeing things differently. Considering the lines that I've added to your chart, how may you have traded differently through the session? No need to answer the question here... it's just offered for your consideration.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Once again, another perspective...

 

My last interruption to the conversation... hth.

Attached Thumbnails

 

new poster: (apologies for not getting your name)

JP,

 

Are you using action/reaction lines or something else?

I knew "this" was going to lead to trouble...

 

jpennybags:

I have no idea what you are speaking of (action/reaction). I was raised a "feral child"... I have no "names" for anything, and I see things as I see them. As I've said to Gamera: "make of it what you will". My advice would be the same to you. Last word...

 

Edit: My words were a bit abrupt, and for that I apologize. The channel lines that I've exhibited over these few posts are just a reflection of my way of seeing. What I've shown should be self explanatory, in a visual sense, such that one would be able to experiment and draw their own assessments... retain it, shelve it for later, or dismiss it as you will. Hands on learning is the best way... words are a hinder.

 

/

zdo:

Making more trouble down the line ... with lines...

 

Not equidistant or pretty like jp’s... but 2nd attached is LONGsNOSTRAIGHTLINES.gif picture is of that same morning with the buystop entries shown. These are program generated lines (NOT straight lines!) from one of my automated systems. New dots / line extensions to the right form at the close of a bar. (Sellstop entries, and two trailing stop ‘lines’ not shown on this illustration. )

 

Believe it or not these points / lines are formed from intra- and inter-bar ‘price action’ plus a couple of volume tricks/tells ( but btw it’s not price action that finds SETUPs ie starts and stops the ‘line drawing’ and it’s also not price action that triggers take profit exits on this system... fwiw the ‘strength’ of this system is not these ‘lines’. the ‘strength’ of this system is how it goes dormant (and / or also sizes way down ) in congestions )

 

With a little bit of cherry picking, I could find better illustrations of this ‘indicator’ than that morning ... just glancing at results, it seems long SETUPs were activated a few too many times = a couple extra stopout losses, a couple of reverses at a loss, a couple of reverses at a small profit (like short at 10:41 back long at 10:53... stopped out a 11:01), etc etc. Happens all the time...typical of automation probabilistic fuzziness... Still - other than these few ‘synchness difficulties’, most winners only took a few ticks of heat...

 

So while the buy triggers look a little ‘warped ’ to me for that morning, the sellstop entries for that day ‘computed’ a whole lot ‘tighter’ to price... more ‘resonance’, fewer stopouts, etc. See 1st attached SHORTsNOSTRAIGHTLINES.gif of last half of the same day’s shorts for this system. In addition to running tighter to price, these ‘lines’ were generally angled more parallel than the buystop entries in the morning,... more parallel (and maybe even more equidistant from each other ) like the straight lines jpbabsonbags posted.

 

Fwiw, I still manually use ‘parallelogram grids’ on daily charts ... been using them since the mid 90’s... years ago posted a few ‘parallelogram grid’ YM charts in here maybe...

Anyways - when your up angle and down angle ‘settings’ of ‘parallelogram grids’ needs to be changed - That means something ! just sayin (oh sht 'just sayin' is spreading... )

 

PS, jp I liked your post just fine before the edit

Attached Thumbnails

 

new poster:

JP,

 

No worries, just asking. I'm not looking for a "way" or trade advise or anything like that.

 

Just being a casual observer I think Gamera is often late and uses SLA poorly, perhaps depending too much on lines rather than price behavior. Good example is trying to use lines when price is in a range -- one should not use demand/supply lines when price is in a range, instead use AMT. That is just one misuse of many, but everyone learns differently and must find their own way of understanding.

 

Trading is a job to me and I sometimes like to talk theory, hence my question about action/reaction lines. Personally that is way too many lines for me, but to each his own. I think Wyckoff said to look for the motive behind the action and interpret the behavior of the market, not getting caught up in lines which are in the individual traders mind.

 

God luck.

 

/

jpennybags:

Other than a read through of the DbPhoenix publication, I have not studied SLA/AMT, and I can't comment on that aspect... though from what I recall of the method, it may be that it's being poorly applied. I think zdo was hinting at that previously.

 

Regardless of what method is used, any experienced trader would surmise that Gamera has some issues... missing trades that should be taken, and taking trades that shouldn't be (or trades that have a very short shelf life).

 

It's either method or madness, or a combination of the two, but it's something that Gamera may want to explore "living in his own skin" (so to speak).

 

Edit: btw, not that it matters, but I agree... the lines aren't the story, just the outline for the narrative.

/

 

zdo:

How and when did we shift from talking to him to talking about him?

 

...

 

jpennybags: I don't believe (if one is honest about human interaction) that "with" or "about" can be separated, but only by a very thin line. For a conversation to be helpful it must drift (swing) across that line at times. My point was that Gamera may want to (prefer to) explore these issues "living in his own skin". Which is where the best answers come from.

 

Edit: Definition for "living in your own skin".... "working it out for yourself"

Cruel... nah; disrespect... hhmmm... nah...

 

jpennybags:

I've stated in another thread these words: "I've not learned a damn thing about trading from anyone on this website, save but just a couple of people (you know who you are, because I've thanked you personally)". What I received from those two interactions was not instruction (in the formal sense), but it was just a "bump" that opened up a door to a different way of seeing. Often, that's all it takes is a bump.

 

I've been doing this for 7 years now, yet I'm not so far removed from the struggles that I experienced when beginning (finding my way). A couple of years ago, I took the time to read back through my journal entries from that first 2 years. There were some entries that were brutally honest, and others where I was just shuffling my feet to find a more comfortable space, and still others where I had discovered something new. As I read through some of the posts here, I see much of what I found in my own journal... and I want to help (because I do feel your pain). The truth is though: From my own experience, the process requires a lot of winding, then unwinding and then winding again (the unwinding is the most difficult), and this something that must be done from the inside.

 

For anyone who has read my posts... I'm getting a bit long winded here (running out of words) so I'll close:

 

I rarely get involved in the all too futile task of giving advice; it often does more harm than good, and leads to another misunderstanding that then must be unwound. Occasionally you run across someone who has an axe to grind, or who thinks you're an idiot and will go out of their way to tell you why, but for the most part... people just want to help.

 

Edit: "Bump"... something you already know, but is yet to be realized.

Edit 2: As we have been cast into "Off Topic" land, I intend to thoroughly amuse myself (ROFLMAO)... was that chart with all the dots a "bump" or "something else"? Ha! It was probably the last fucking straw. Salute to Mr. Gamera...

 

zdo:
was that chart with all the dots a "bump"

You bumped lines over corrections / retracements. It reminded me of automated system that ostensibly does same... The real point - anytime lines are being used for triggers (whether they are straight or crooked, drawn manually or via programing ), they will attract more money if they ‘cover’ corrections / retracements. I should have just bumped that explicitly instead of rambling on about features...

 

 

Speaking of features...

re:

As we have been cast into "Off Topic" land

ANY outside assistance is frowned upon by cult leadership ... seems to always have something to do with purity of ‘lines’ :)

 

but for the most part... people just want to help.

For months I have wondered why no slaampt peers, etc were showing up...ain't ironic at all...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that the deleted material is back on board I have a few comments

 

Early in Gamera’s thread, I kept thinking “when is someone going to say something?” A ‘student’ is flailing around, no - writhing around, and there’s not a peep from anyone. It’s like the dam hazing case

Manslaughter charges in Penn State alleged hazing death - CNN.com

- only worse. Not only were his peers afraid or unable to say anything - but in this fkn case the highest levels of the cult / school administration also knowingly stood by doing nothing.

 

Instead, dbp waited until others were throwing him some love before joining the conversation and then took the outsiders’ method neutral content down because it was ‘off topic’. Hm - Two ‘school agnostic’ passerby’s talking with him about his trading - not his wycoffing - was the agregious offense here ?

 

I been known to channel Richard (better than the thinking types do / better than those my boy Taleb calls"Intellectual-Yet-Idiot" do ) and you know what rw says? He says- “gentlemen the whole thread is off Wyckoff topic.” Yep that’s right - rw would say the whole thread was ‘off topic’. But you left it up.

 

Until outsiders start making waves, you leave your peeps writhing on the ground in pain ... db I would not want to be in a foxhole with you

 

 

 

 

 

Principles

“The future is set. It’s the past that keeps changing ” Russian saying from the mid 1900’s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not only were his peers afraid or unable to say anything - but in this fkn case the highest levels of the cult / school administration also knowingly stood by doing nothing.

 

Its hardly a new situation that we havent seen before....

 

however, I do think it is worth calling this stuff out when you see it. Speaking from personal experience, Ive been guilty of similar behaviour in the past in the hope that someone would throw me a bone in exchange for my loyalty and / or silence. It obviously didnt happen, and with the benefit of hindsight I now understand that noone had anything remotely useful to offer anyway !

 

I've no axe to grind with db, he's one of the few who has made a positive contribution in the trading community over the years.

 

I dont really want to be critical of TL either, what other option do they have ?, TL are definately at the whiter than white end of the spectrum, but even so, if the need for principles, integrity and honesty are high up your list of personal values, running or working for a trading forum is probably not the ideal business to be involved in.

 

I know I have a reputation as an old cynic, but can you really expect "principles" in this type of environment ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too have no axe to grind with anyone... things play out as they will. I was a bit taken aback by being cast into "off topic land" (a first for me... the conversation actually was "on topic"... just not Wyckoff). If this had been directed specifically by Gamera, then that's cool... sometimes the best response is: "everybody shut the fuck up". Having the decision made by a "moderator" ... well, I don't know... in a basic sense of freedom of expression I find it "odd" (groping for a better word).

 

Of course, if you are publically voicing your struggles, one can't really expect to not hear from near-do-wells expressing an opinion (they just want to help... though often, it's no help at all). End of the day... it is up too you what you allow in, and what you disregard... that's not the moderators task. Just saying...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know I have a reputation as an old cynic, but can you really expect "principles" in this type of environment ? zupcon

 

Yes. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

And jp, re:

I ... have no axe to grind jpb

I will continue to hold db accountable if needed - but as of this morning, I have forgiven him...

 

sounds like we’re ‘clear’ of it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Summary: The purpose of all my communication with Gamera has always been and continues to be plain and simple encouragement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes. :)

And jp, re:

 

I will continue to hold db accountable if needed - but as of this morning, I have forgiven him...

 

sounds like we’re ‘clear’ of it...

 

Summary: The purpose of all my communication with Gamera has always been and continues to be plain and simple encouragement.

 

Ha! Peace, love, and the pursuit of happiness... "trade it as you see it". I'm good.

 

BTW... my "near-do-well" comment was referenced to you; not me (LOL). I have far to much "ego" to ever even consider such an admonishment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • HLF Herbalife stock, watch for a bull flag breakout above 9.02 at https://stockconsultant.com/?HLF
    • Date: 1st April 2025.   Will Gold’s Rally Hold Strong as New Trade Tariffs Take Effect Tomorrow?   Gold continues to increase in value for a sixth consecutive day and is trading more than 17% higher in 2025. Amid fear of higher inflation, a recession and the tariffs war escalating investors continue to invest into Gold pushing demand higher. The trade policy from April 2nd onwards continues to be a key factor for the whole market. Can Gold maintain its upward trend? Trade Policy From Tomorrow Onwards Starting as soon as tomorrow, a 25% tariff will be imposed on all passenger cars imported into the United States. While this White House policy is anticipated to negatively affect European industrial performance, it will also lead to higher transportation and maintenance costs for everyday American taxpayers. The negative impact expected on both the EU and US is one of the reasons investors continue to buy Gold. Additionally, last month, President Donald Trump announced reciprocal sanctions against any trade partners that impose import restrictions on US goods. Furthermore, tariffs on products from Canada and the EU could increase even more if they attempt to coordinate a response. Overall, investors continue to worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures, particularly from China, the Eurozone, and Japan. Any retaliation is likely to escalate the trade conflict and prompt another reaction from the US. Experts at Goldman Sachs and other investment banks warn that this will lead to rising inflation and unemployment. They also caution that it could effectively halt economic growth in the US.   XAUUSD 1-Hour Chart   The Weakness In The US Dollar Another factor which is allowing the price of XAUUSD to increase in value is the US Dollar which has been unable to maintain any bullish momentum. Despite last week’s Core PCE Price Index rising to its highest level since February 2024, the US Dollar has been unable to see any significant rise in value. Due to the US Dollar and Gold's inverse correlation, the price of Gold is benefiting from the Dollar weakness. Investors worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures from China, the Eurozone, and Japan, potentially escalating the conflict. Experts at The Goldman Sachs Group Inc. believe that such actions by the US administration will drive rising inflation and unemployment while effectively halting economic growth in the country. Can Gold Maintain Momentum? When it comes to technical analysis, the price of Gold is not trading at a price where oscillators are indicating the instrument is overbought. The Relative Strength Index currently trades at 68.88, outside of the overbought area, since Gold’s price fell 0.65% during this morning’s session. However, even with this decline, the price still remains 0.40% higher than the day’s open price. In terms of fundamental analysis, there continues to be plenty of factors indicating the price could continue to rise. However, the price movement of the week will also partially depend on the employment data from the US. The US is due to release the JOLTS Job Vacancies for February this afternoon, the ADP Non-Farm Employment Change tomorrow, and the NFP Change and Unemployment Rate on Friday. If all data reads higher than expectations, investors may look to sell to lock in profits at the high price. Key Takeaway Points: Gold’s Rally Continues – Up 17% in 2025 as investors seek safety from inflation, recession fears, and trade tensions. Trade War Impact – New US tariffs and potential retaliation from China, the EU, and Japan drive uncertainty, boosting Gold demand. Weak US Dollar – The Dollar’s struggle supports Gold’s rise due to their inverse correlation. Gold’s Outlook – Uptrend may continue, but US jobs data could trigger profit-taking. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 31st March 2025.   Trump Confirms Tariffs on All Countries, Sending Stocks Lower.   The NASDAQ continues to trade lower due to the US confirming the latest tariffs will be on all countries. In addition to this, bearish volatility also is largely due to the higher inflation data from Friday. The NASDAQ declines to its lowest price since September 11th 2024. Core PCE Price Index - Inflation Increases Again! The PCE Price Index read 2.5% aligning with expert forecasts not triggering any alarm bells. However, the Core PCE Price Index rose from 0.3% to 0.4% MoM and from 2.7% to 2.8% YoY, signalling growing inflationary pressure. This increases the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will maintain elevated interest rates for an extended period. The NASDAQ fell 2.60% due to the higher inflation reading which is known to pressure the stock market due to pressure on consumer demand and a more hawkish Federal Reserve. Boston Fed President Susan Collins recently commented that tariffs could drive up inflation, though the long-term impact remains uncertain. She told journalists that a short-term spike is the most probable outcome but believes the current pause in monetary policy adjustments is appropriate given the prevailing uncertainties. Although, certain investment banks such as JP Morgan actually believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates. This is due to expectations that the economy will struggle under the new trade policy. For example, JP Morgan expects the Federal Reserve to delay rate cuts but will quickly cut towards the end of 2025. Market Risk Appetite Takes a Hit! A big factor for the day is the drop in the risk appetite of investors. This can be seen from the VIX which is up almost 6%, Gold which is trading 1.30% higher and the Japanese Yen which is the day’s best performing currency. Most safe haven assets, bar the US Dollar, increase in value. It is also worth noting that all indices are decreasing in value during this morning's Asian session with the Nikkei225 and NASDAQ witnessing the strongest decline. Previously the stock market rose in value as investors heard rumours that tariffs would only be on certain countries. This bullish swing occurred between March 14th and 25th. Over the weekend, President Donald Trump indicated that the upcoming tariffs would apply to all countries, not just those with the largest trade imbalances with the US. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis In terms of technical analysis, the NASDAQ continues to obtain indications that sellers control the price action. The price opens on a bearish price gap measuring 0.30% and trades below all Moving Averages on all timeframes. The NASDAQ also trades below the VWAP and almost 100% of the most influential components (stocks) are declining in value.     The next significant support level is at $18,313, and the resistance level stands at $20,367.95. Key Takeaway Points: NASDAQ falls to its lowest since September 2024 as the US confirms tariffs on all countries, adding to inflation concerns. Core PCE inflation rises to 0.4% MoM and 2.8% YoY, increasing the likelihood of prolonged high interest rates. Investor risk appetite drops as VIX jumps 6%, gold gains 1.3%, and safe-haven assets outperform. NASDAQ shows strong bearish momentum, trading below key technical levels with support at $18,313 and resistance at $20,367.95. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • PM Philip Morris stock, top of range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?PM
    • EXC Exelon stock, nice range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?EXC
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.