Principles

[zdo 20]

For the record.

You are not encouraged to read the following ‘stuff’. It is a partially re-constructed re-posting of censored (and some probably soon to be censored) material from dbp’s subforum... for the record.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera »

Re “No trades from the previous session. ...”

Quote:

The great twentieth-century composer Karlheinz Stockhausen once made this comment on the nature of composing: “The marvelous thing about composing is that you make thousands of arbitrary choices, how big to make the notehead, how large to draw the clef, how long to draw the stem of a note. None of these decisions changes the sound of the music, but by making those choices, you learn to be decisive ”

 

As you practice making choices, you begin to develop an instinct for making the right choices, the ones that lead to the most successful realization of what you want to create. Who do you think has the higher probability of success, the person who has avoided making choices or the person who has made tens of thousands of choices and who has had a chance to learn the feel of right and wrong choices?

 

Choices take practice. It is a developed ability. The more you choose, the better you will choose.

 

I recommend that you practice making small, quick choices whose outcomes have a low risk factor ...

Robert Fritz

 

Keep on gettin' up, G

 

 

all the best,

 

zdo

 

zdo: ?? re:

http://cdn3.traderslaboratory.com/fo...7multiprep.png

 

Gamera,

How are you able to garner any different information from (or more information) between your 10 minute charts and your hourly charts?

 

zdo: On the longest time frame charts you utilize, do you know the percentages (over time) of how accurate ‘what you see’ is?

Are you able to assign real-time confidence levels to that accuracy?

 

zdo: On the ‘medium’ time frame (1 hr? 10 min ? ... 10 min) frame charts you utilize, do you know the percentages over time of how accurate ‘what you see’ is? Are you able to assign real-time confidence levels to that accuracy?

jpennybags:

Gamera...

 

I took just enough time to do a cursory read of your past posts in this thread, and I see a pattern in your trading. Without being able to get inside your head (observe your trading day-to-day) I would be reluctant to offer advice... people do what they do, for whatever reason that they do what they do, because they need to do what they do (yikes... that was no help).

 

I've been doing this for a while, and I believe the best answers come from within. In that context I would offer that possibly you may want to try eliminating the "prep work" that you do each day. I think you may be setting up biases that reside in the back of your mind that then influence your trading decisions on the faster chart (the chart you are actually trading). I don't want to say too much in this regard, as too many words often lead to confusion of the message.

 

It's just an observation... nothing more... something to consider.

 

Best of good fortune...

zdo:

Gamera, Do you think dbP would also rate you at 7 (on a scale of 0 (not) to 10 (very)) on how congruently your method and trading mirrors the intended essence of the SLA method?

 

Have a great weekend all

 

jpennybags:

Gamera... Just another example of seeing things differently. Considering the lines that I've added to your chart, how may you have traded differently through the session? No need to answer the question here... it's just offered for your consideration.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Once again, another perspective...

 

My last interruption to the conversation... hth.

Attached Thumbnails

 

new poster: (apologies for not getting your name)

JP,

 

Are you using action/reaction lines or something else?

I knew "this" was going to lead to trouble...

 

jpennybags:

I have no idea what you are speaking of (action/reaction). I was raised a "feral child"... I have no "names" for anything, and I see things as I see them. As I've said to Gamera: "make of it what you will". My advice would be the same to you. Last word...

 

Edit: My words were a bit abrupt, and for that I apologize. The channel lines that I've exhibited over these few posts are just a reflection of my way of seeing. What I've shown should be self explanatory, in a visual sense, such that one would be able to experiment and draw their own assessments... retain it, shelve it for later, or dismiss it as you will. Hands on learning is the best way... words are a hinder.

 

/

zdo:

Making more trouble down the line ... with lines...

 

Not equidistant or pretty like jp’s... but 2nd attached is LONGsNOSTRAIGHTLINES.gif picture is of that same morning with the buystop entries shown. These are program generated lines (NOT straight lines!) from one of my automated systems. New dots / line extensions to the right form at the close of a bar. (Sellstop entries, and two trailing stop ‘lines’ not shown on this illustration. )

 

Believe it or not these points / lines are formed from intra- and inter-bar ‘price action’ plus a couple of volume tricks/tells ( but btw it’s not price action that finds SETUPs ie starts and stops the ‘line drawing’ and it’s also not price action that triggers take profit exits on this system... fwiw the ‘strength’ of this system is not these ‘lines’. the ‘strength’ of this system is how it goes dormant (and / or also sizes way down ) in congestions )

 

With a little bit of cherry picking, I could find better illustrations of this ‘indicator’ than that morning ... just glancing at results, it seems long SETUPs were activated a few too many times = a couple extra stopout losses, a couple of reverses at a loss, a couple of reverses at a small profit (like short at 10:41 back long at 10:53... stopped out a 11:01), etc etc. Happens all the time...typical of automation probabilistic fuzziness... Still - other than these few ‘synchness difficulties’, most winners only took a few ticks of heat...

 

So while the buy triggers look a little ‘warped ’ to me for that morning, the sellstop entries for that day ‘computed’ a whole lot ‘tighter’ to price... more ‘resonance’, fewer stopouts, etc. See 1st attached SHORTsNOSTRAIGHTLINES.gif of last half of the same day’s shorts for this system. In addition to running tighter to price, these ‘lines’ were generally angled more parallel than the buystop entries in the morning,... more parallel (and maybe even more equidistant from each other ) like the straight lines jpbabsonbags posted.

 

Fwiw, I still manually use ‘parallelogram grids’ on daily charts ... been using them since the mid 90’s... years ago posted a few ‘parallelogram grid’ YM charts in here maybe...

Anyways - when your up angle and down angle ‘settings’ of ‘parallelogram grids’ needs to be changed - That means something ! just sayin (oh sht 'just sayin' is spreading... )

 

PS, jp I liked your post just fine before the edit

Attached Thumbnails

 

new poster:

JP,

 

No worries, just asking. I'm not looking for a "way" or trade advise or anything like that.

 

Just being a casual observer I think Gamera is often late and uses SLA poorly, perhaps depending too much on lines rather than price behavior. Good example is trying to use lines when price is in a range -- one should not use demand/supply lines when price is in a range, instead use AMT. That is just one misuse of many, but everyone learns differently and must find their own way of understanding.

 

Trading is a job to me and I sometimes like to talk theory, hence my question about action/reaction lines. Personally that is way too many lines for me, but to each his own. I think Wyckoff said to look for the motive behind the action and interpret the behavior of the market, not getting caught up in lines which are in the individual traders mind.

 

God luck.

 

/

jpennybags:

Other than a read through of the DbPhoenix publication, I have not studied SLA/AMT, and I can't comment on that aspect... though from what I recall of the method, it may be that it's being poorly applied. I think zdo was hinting at that previously.

 

Regardless of what method is used, any experienced trader would surmise that Gamera has some issues... missing trades that should be taken, and taking trades that shouldn't be (or trades that have a very short shelf life).

 

It's either method or madness, or a combination of the two, but it's something that Gamera may want to explore "living in his own skin" (so to speak).

 

Edit: btw, not that it matters, but I agree... the lines aren't the story, just the outline for the narrative.

/

 

zdo:

How and when did we shift from talking to him to talking about him?

 

...

 

jpennybags: I don't believe (if one is honest about human interaction) that "with" or "about" can be separated, but only by a very thin line. For a conversation to be helpful it must drift (swing) across that line at times. My point was that Gamera may want to (prefer to) explore these issues "living in his own skin". Which is where the best answers come from.

 

Edit: Definition for "living in your own skin".... "working it out for yourself"

Cruel... nah; disrespect... hhmmm... nah...

 

jpennybags:

I've stated in another thread these words: "I've not learned a damn thing about trading from anyone on this website, save but just a couple of people (you know who you are, because I've thanked you personally)". What I received from those two interactions was not instruction (in the formal sense), but it was just a "bump" that opened up a door to a different way of seeing. Often, that's all it takes is a bump.

 

I've been doing this for 7 years now, yet I'm not so far removed from the struggles that I experienced when beginning (finding my way). A couple of years ago, I took the time to read back through my journal entries from that first 2 years. There were some entries that were brutally honest, and others where I was just shuffling my feet to find a more comfortable space, and still others where I had discovered something new. As I read through some of the posts here, I see much of what I found in my own journal... and I want to help (because I do feel your pain). The truth is though: From my own experience, the process requires a lot of winding, then unwinding and then winding again (the unwinding is the most difficult), and this something that must be done from the inside.

 

For anyone who has read my posts... I'm getting a bit long winded here (running out of words) so I'll close:

 

I rarely get involved in the all too futile task of giving advice; it often does more harm than good, and leads to another misunderstanding that then must be unwound. Occasionally you run across someone who has an axe to grind, or who thinks you're an idiot and will go out of their way to tell you why, but for the most part... people just want to help.

 

Edit: "Bump"... something you already know, but is yet to be realized.

Edit 2: As we have been cast into "Off Topic" land, I intend to thoroughly amuse myself (ROFLMAO)... was that chart with all the dots a "bump" or "something else"? Ha! It was probably the last fucking straw. Salute to Mr. Gamera...

 

zdo:

was that chart with all the dots a "bump"

You bumped lines over corrections / retracements. It reminded me of automated system that ostensibly does same... The real point - anytime lines are being used for triggers (whether they are straight or crooked, drawn manually or via programing ), they will attract more money if they ‘cover’ corrections / retracements. I should have just bumped that explicitly instead of rambling on about features...

 

 

Speaking of features...

re:

As we have been cast into "Off Topic" land

ANY outside assistance is frowned upon by cult leadership ... seems to always have something to do with purity of ‘lines’

 

but for the most part... people just want to help.

For months I have wondered why no slaampt peers, etc were showing up...ain't ironic at all...

[zdo 20]

Now that the deleted material is back on board I have a few comments

 

Early in Gamera’s thread, I kept thinking “when is someone going to say something?” A ‘student’ is flailing around, no - writhing around, and there’s not a peep from anyone. It’s like the dam hazing case

Manslaughter charges in Penn State alleged hazing death - CNN.com

- only worse. Not only were his peers afraid or unable to say anything - but in this fkn case the highest levels of the cult / school administration also knowingly stood by doing nothing.

 

Instead, dbp waited until others were throwing him some love before joining the conversation and then took the outsiders’ method neutral content down because it was ‘off topic’. Hm - Two ‘school agnostic’ passerby’s talking with him about his trading - not his wycoffing - was the agregious offense here ?

 

I been known to channel Richard (better than the thinking types do / better than those my boy Taleb calls"Intellectual-Yet-Idiot" do ) and you know what rw says? He says- “gentlemen the whole thread is off Wyckoff topic.” Yep that’s right - rw would say the whole thread was ‘off topic’. But you left it up.

 

Until outsiders start making waves, you leave your peeps writhing on the ground in pain ... db I would not want to be in a foxhole with you

 

 

 

 

 

Principles

“The future is set. It’s the past that keeps changing ” Russian saying from the mid 1900’s

[zupcon 10]

Not only were his peers afraid or unable to say anything - but in this fkn case the highest levels of the cult / school administration also knowingly stood by doing nothing.

 

Its hardly a new situation that we havent seen before....

 

however, I do think it is worth calling this stuff out when you see it. Speaking from personal experience, Ive been guilty of similar behaviour in the past in the hope that someone would throw me a bone in exchange for my loyalty and / or silence. It obviously didnt happen, and with the benefit of hindsight I now understand that noone had anything remotely useful to offer anyway !

 

I've no axe to grind with db, he's one of the few who has made a positive contribution in the trading community over the years.

 

I dont really want to be critical of TL either, what other option do they have ?, TL are definately at the whiter than white end of the spectrum, but even so, if the need for principles, integrity and honesty are high up your list of personal values, running or working for a trading forum is probably not the ideal business to be involved in.

 

I know I have a reputation as an old cynic, but can you really expect "principles" in this type of environment ?

[jpennybags 11]

I too have no axe to grind with anyone... things play out as they will. I was a bit taken aback by being cast into "off topic land" (a first for me... the conversation actually was "on topic"... just not Wyckoff). If this had been directed specifically by Gamera, then that's cool... sometimes the best response is: "everybody shut the fuck up". Having the decision made by a "moderator" ... well, I don't know... in a basic sense of freedom of expression I find it "odd" (groping for a better word).

 

Of course, if you are publically voicing your struggles, one can't really expect to not hear from near-do-wells expressing an opinion (they just want to help... though often, it's no help at all). End of the day... it is up too you what you allow in, and what you disregard... that's not the moderators task. Just saying...

[zdo 20]

I know I have a reputation as an old cynic, but can you really expect "principles" in this type of environment ? zupcon

 

Yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

And jp, re:

I ... have no axe to grind jpb

I will continue to hold db accountable if needed - but as of this morning, I have forgiven him...

 

sounds like we’re ‘clear’ of it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Summary: The purpose of all my communication with Gamera has always been and continues to be plain and simple encouragement.

[jpennybags 11]

Yes.

And jp, re:

 

I will continue to hold db accountable if needed - but as of this morning, I have forgiven him...

 

sounds like we’re ‘clear’ of it...

 

Summary: The purpose of all my communication with Gamera has always been and continues to be plain and simple encouragement.

 

Ha! Peace, love, and the pursuit of happiness... "trade it as you see it". I'm good.

 

BTW... my "near-do-well" comment was referenced to you; not me (LOL). I have far to much "ego" to ever even consider such an admonishment.