trading YM & stops

[maildigger 10]

For the guys who trade the YM ... I read that placed stops are placed locally and not directly in the market (vs ES placed directly in the market). Does this not concern you as a trader?

[Guest cooter]

Nope. Should it?

[brownsfan019 17]

It might depending on how the stops are held. This is depended on your broker and the platform you are using. For example, some firms hold your stops on their servers and/or the platform's servers. If your computer loses connection, your orders are still out there.

 

I would suggest everyone know exactly how this is handled at your broker b/c sooner or later you will find out the hard way.

[BlowFish 10]

I had a bad experience once when an order held at my brokers (IB) was not elected due to their communications with globex going out the split second that it was hit. It disappeared off my trading screen so I though OK all is well. about a couple of hours later I got a message saying that it had not gone. Cost a lot. Just another lesson albeit an expensive one.

 

Most exchanges support either a stop or a stop limit natively (some support both) - just use a stop with a large limit if its the latter.

[notouch 10]

ECBOT supports native stops. All decent brokers should offer them.

[The Bear 10]

  notouch said:

ECBOT supports native stops. All decent brokers should offer them.

 

Note guys that IB does not provide native stops in pretty much all the markets we trade. TradeStation I doubt provides native stops, they don't even have GTC orders for any futures...how pathetic is that. I found a broker called OPEN E CRY and they claim to offer exchange native orders. I'm curious if anyone has used them for order execution or knows how well capitalized the corporation is.

[Guest cooter]

  The Bear said:

Note guys that IB does not provide native stops in pretty much all the markets we trade. TradeStation I doubt provides native stops, they don't even have GTC orders for any futures...how pathetic is that. I found a broker called OPEN E CRY and they claim to offer exchange native orders. I'm curious if anyone has used them for order execution or knows how well capitalized the corporation is.

 

Every broker has its own idiosyncrasies, Bear. OEC is no different here.

 

I've posted elsewhere in this forum about Open E Cry and their operation - search and you'll find it.

 

If speed to market is your thing, then the OEC Trader platform is a smidgen slower than other platforms, like Innnfinitty AT, for example. Side-by-side, you'd notice the difference. Which is surprising since OEC is a fully-licensed FCM in its own right, not an IB, like Innnfinnity. (Misspelling intentional).

 

One thing that OEC is good for however, is Pit-Traded contracts. You can do these using the same OEC Trader platform and DOM that the Electronic contracts are traded on.

 

And if the pit and electronic contracts are fungible, you can exit one with a trade on the other. Excellent backup to have when the eCBOT crashes, and you need to exit your position, say, in the 30 year bonds.

[BlowFish 10]

  The Bear said:

Note guys that IB does not provide native stops in pretty much all the markets we trade.

 

IB provide native stops in all the markets I trade Eurex Globex CBOT CME. If memory serves me correctly when I checked out asia they do for Hong Kong, Singapore and Japan. As far as far as I can tell if an exchange supports an order they provide it natively.

 

I'm not sure what you are basing your information on but I think you are mistaken. I guess you could be talking about spot forex but as that is not really a 'real' market there is nowhere to hold stops natively (unless you count taking a bet with your broker a 'real' market).

 

I dont use IB's platform directly I use an "order helper". However you can see exactly where your order is graphically on there traders workstation (TWS). Once it goes green in the appropriate column you can be sure it is sitting on the exchange.

 

IB Has its faults but breadth of markets you can trade and orders you can use in those markets are not one of them.

 

Cheers,

Nick.

[The Bear 10]

  BlowFish said:

IB provide native stops in all the markets I trade Eurex Globex CBOT CME. If memory serves me correctly when I checked out asia they do for Hong Kong, Singapore and Japan. As far as far as I can tell if an exchange supports an order they provide it natively.

 

I'm not sure what you are basing your information on but I think you are mistaken. I guess you could be talking about spot forex but as that is not really a 'real' market there is nowhere to hold stops natively (unless you count taking a bet with your broker a 'real' market).

 

I dont use IB's platform directly I use an "order helper". However you can see exactly where your order is graphically on there traders workstation (TWS). Once it goes green in the appropriate column you can be sure it is sitting on the exchange.

 

IB Has its faults but breadth of markets you can trade and orders you can use in those markets are not one of them.

 

Cheers,

Nick.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a STOP MARKET order go green. If it isn't green, I'm pretty sure it's not native. The only orders i've seen go green are LIMIT orders, and these are held natively on the exchange.

 

Have you seen your STOP MARKET orders go green?

 

Note that I only trade on NYMEX, NYSE, ECBOT. I've checked and of the ones I list here, STOP MARKET for ECBOT might be exchange native for IB, but I need to confirm. The orders don't go green, but when they are BLUE, for ECBOT, it may mean it is native.

[BlowFish 10]

  The Bear said:

I don't think I've ever seen a STOP MARKET order go green. If it isn't green, I'm pretty sure it's not native. The only orders i've seen go green are LIMIT orders, and these are held natively on the exchange.

 

Have you seen your STOP MARKET orders go green?

 

Note that I only trade on NYMEX, NYSE, ECBOT. I've checked and of the ones I list here, STOP MARKET for ECBOT might be exchange native for IB, but I need to confirm. The orders don't go green, but when they are BLUE, for ECBOT, it may mean it is native.

 

Not sure about Nymex I have never looked at it ... that may be why we see different things. I don't trade ECBOT on a regular basis (well have not for a while) so would have to check. That may be one of the weird ones that needs a stop limit to go native (as opposed to a regular stop). The moral of the story of course is know your orders and know where they are held! At least with IB you know exactly where the order is held by the colour code.

[dalby 10]

"communications with globex"

 

we were talking YM. YM doesn't trade on globex (not yet at least. when the merger goes through...)

[BlowFish 10]

  dalby said:

"communications with globex"

 

we were talking YM. YM doesn't trade on globex (not yet at least. when the merger goes through...)

 

Yes of course I am well aware of that. :-) It was just an anecdote of how things can go wrong. It was one of the largest single losses I have taken, probably the largest. Of course in the days of phone trading there was much more that could go wrong.

 

I thought this took the discussion into a broader and more useful direction..."know exactly where your orders are held" and "always check whether your orders have been elected or not". Having orders busted (a perfectly good order that has been accepted by the exchange cancelled at a later time) is another frustrating experience usually due to some fat fingered trader placing an order for 10k rather than 10 but that's another story.

 

It amazes me that people would consider executing a trade without understanding the basic nuts and bolts of the exchange.

 

Cheers.

[notouch 10]

  The Bear said:

I don't think I've ever seen a STOP MARKET order go green. If it isn't green, I'm pretty sure it's not native. The only orders i've seen go green are LIMIT orders, and these are held natively on the exchange.

 

Have you seen your STOP MARKET orders go green?

 

Note that I only trade on NYMEX, NYSE, ECBOT. I've checked and of the ones I list here, STOP MARKET for ECBOT might be exchange native for IB, but I need to confirm. The orders don't go green, but when they are BLUE, for ECBOT, it may mean it is native.

 

That's because of the nature of a stop order compared to a limit order. A limit order is working at the exchange as soon as it's been accepted by the exchange whereas a stop order is accepted at the exchange but only becomes a working order once the elected price is hit. So when your stop order is blue it means the exchange has accepted it (assuming the exchange supports that order type).