Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

nakachalet

"HOLY GRAIL" is There or Isn't There?

Recommended Posts

for some dubious reasons,

 

many believe HOLY GRAIL exists in some shape or form or in some combination of setups but even more believe there is no such thing in trading; furthermore, the

majority of traders won't care much about such nonsensical utopia.

 

but from your personal past trading experiences, do you believe in the concept and existence of a holy grail?

 

if a holy grail can be defined as:

 

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces

profitable net profit.

 

plse do not dwell on philosophical aspects of holy grail, which will take forever and forever to even contemplate.

 

just from your personal past learning, searching and trading experiences and other

relevant personal experiences--

 

:haha: is there or isn't there a sort of HOLY GRAIL in trading per definition above?

 

with full realization that most trading forums are heavily saturated, supported, sponsored and financed et al by trading educators and trading instituions completed with prop firms, just to mention a few obvious; therefore, it is never my intention to challenge, belittle, prove or disprove the benefits of each entity. i believe, each body exits, develops and progresses accoriding to demand and supplyin that particular market. so may each entity live long and profitable as well, so many wannabe traders would benefit from your generous services.

 

before we go on, may i assure you that this thread has nothing to sell, nothing to promote and nothing to persuade you to do or not to do anything about anything in trading or otherwise, alright.

 

everone is free to express your hindsight or foresight in trading concept and practices involving HOLY GRAIL VIABILITY AND EXISTENCE.

 

to be fair to everyone, i'll start out by saying that personally i do definitely believe in the existence of holy grail in various shape, form and/or combination of such.

 

my personal belief is based primarily on the obvious evidences of the current existence of a multitude of successful traders in various markets and disciplines.

 

we might have seen their daily real money trading accounts as they are shown on screen for every subscribers to eschew and salivate.... lol

 

the buring question is:

 

what is their secret or what is their HOLY GRAIL that enables

them to be so consistently profitable?

 

ANY HELP HERE, PLS? :crap:

 

thx much for your time and indulgence everyone.

 

hopefully, this thread will stimulate everyone to think harder and search more toward

discovering our own HOLY GRAIL, so each might be able to trade more profitably and more consistently with sustainability as well.

 

profitable trading to everyone. :pc guru:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if a holy grail can be defined as:

 

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces

profitable net profit.

 

 

Well yes, there is a "holy grail" as you've defined it (although, I think you meant to say "consistent net profit").

 

The problem occurs with the term "holy grail". If you are questioning if there is a system that works across all time frames, for all people, with no tactical adjustment... then I would say no. If there is, then I would imagine that the profits would be marginal, although positive, but I doubt that to be a worthwhile venture.

 

HFT's and Arbitrage seems to be the closest thing to the holy grail. Let me say here that I know little of either, but it seems (to me) that even those two examples would be in a constant flux to adapt to market conditions.

 

For a retail trader, neither of the above examples are feasible. You are left with ten thousand (a number I pulled out-a-my-ass) different ways to consistently make profits. The problem exists with the search for the personal "holy grail" is in finding the combination of things (and in dealing with yourself) that will yield consistent profits. I think you'll find that it's a daunting task to first find, and then stay in the "sweet spot" that yields consistent profits.

 

It is possible though... takes some effort, and trial and error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

plse do not dwell on philosophical aspects of holy grail, which will take forever and forever to even contemplate.

 

 

The traps you’re discussing in the parts of your post I didn’t re-quote (yet) are describing when a ‘beginning’ trader (or a trader at the 1st cusp) attempts to substitute unholy grail searching for holy grail searching...

A beginning trader who never does any grail searching misses crucial exposure to ‘self’ and critical periods of development...

... and ...

 

 

 

re: “forever and forever”

??? ?

You can choose to deal with your fisher king in an instant.

 

If you don't commit, then...

 

 

 

 

so...

 

 

 

Dwell.

 

 

 

 

if a holy grail can be defined as:

 

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces

profitable net profit.

 

...

 

... is there or isn't there a sort of HOLY GRAIL in trading per definition above?

 

 

The ‘myth’ is a futile 'recapture lost opportunities attempt'. The sickological dynamics are really about the whens of your own inner ‘fisher king’, not the puer's whats of the grail...

Jump to markets - if you understand when something works, the what works are obvious...

 

and re

 

 

 

what is their secret or what is their HOLY GRAIL that enables

them to be so consistently profitable?

 

 

They didn’t match/align/adjust themselves to a method. Instead - Of the ‘10000’ methods jpenny mentioned, they found the method(s) that aligned with their true self...

result is not a utopia... it’s a state that is dissonance free enough for you to actually be functionally ‘consistent’, to get at the ‘underlying structures’ , that gives you the freedom to leverage your imagination

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They didn’t match/align/adjust themselves to a method. Instead - Of the ‘10000’ methods jpenny mentioned, they found the method(s) that aligned with their true self...

result is not a utopia... it’s a state that is dissonance free enough for you to actually be functionally ‘consistent’, to get at the ‘underlying structures’ , that gives you the freedom to leverage your imagination

 

"The result is not a utopia"... as we all know... there is no utopia. Everything is a trade off.

 

I have lamented on this site before, the struggles that I've had with trying to change the way that I trade (successfully trade). I'm very good at what I do, but... but, I recognize that my methods could be better. The problem with making the changes that I can clearly see that need to be made is that I've wrapped a trading system around myself... it's a part of who I am, and who I was... it fits me. Everything in my way (of trading) is wrapped around something. Either it is to compensate for some perceived weakness, or it is to deal with the information that I take in through my eyes and can react to at my particular speed in processing. All this "stuff' is tied together, and it's very difficult to tease out one part of it, without affecting another... it's tightly wrapped.

 

I have an appointment that I need to keep this afternoon, so I'll stop here (I really don't know that I have more to add). There is no utopia. For myself, I've concluded that what I do is good enough, but utopia... well no, it's not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Market dynamics are such that no one but no one can make money all the time under all conditions.

 

A trader who knows what he is doing has to be prepared for a bad day, month, and year.

 

Bad means you ended up losing money.

 

Knowing what you are doing takes some time and perpetual reinvention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A beginning trader who never does any grail searching misses crucial exposure to ‘self’ and critical periods of development...

 

Back to this "holy grail" thing...

 

To offer some backfill and explain: When I took up trading, I was a man of 50 years. I had been successful in other ventures in my life, and I had the money and the time to take on "this trading thing". Good for me... so what? When first starting out; you don't know, what you don't know. Thus, the impetus to know everything.

 

I have a book cart full of trading books... 95% of which I wouldn't recommend even to people I don't like. The price for each of these books would range from $25 to $75. I have about 30. You come up with an aggregate price of $1500 for the mix. If there were an answer there... $1500 and the time to read it all would be dirt cheap.

 

I have spent countless hours, reading on the web, visiting sites such as TL. I've studied Gann, Fibonacci, Pitchforks, Bollinger, Guppy (and on). Now, I would not speak badly of any of it. If any of this stuff works for you, then good enough, and do understand that whatever tool you use, if you know how to use it, it is probably going to be effective.

 

The thing with books about trading, and the adjoining search for the "holy grail" that goes on with so many just starting out, is that it fosters (can foster) critical thinking skills, and in general, a fascination with the market and price action. This is good stuff, that you can carry with you, and even better is the sorting process that one must go through... again critical thinking.

 

So, I don't know... the search for the "holy grail"? In a round-about way probably a good thing for what it's worth, but you should (and hopefully will) come to the conclusion that you don't need the "holy grail" to make money in the markets.

 

Edit: I have a computer that is stored in a closet with all the work I did in the search for the "holy grail". I've got some stuff that would blow your hair back, and I thought about writing a book. End of the day... it would be just another book that I would toss in with the 95% of the books in my book cart. But... it "was" worth the time... enough said...

Edited by jpennybags

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a book cart full of trading books...

...

 

I have spent countless hours ...

 

Parsifal MUST search!

 

I have a book cart full of trading books...

...

 

I have spent countless hours ...

...

 

But... it "was" worth the time... enough said...

On a more practical level, that is the ‘elementary school’ of trading

When I look back on elementary school it seems like a waste of time... however, if nothing else, the three R’s were mastered.

...and even the most gifted among us do better with the three R’s under their belt.

 

A trader cannot differentiate, discriminate, ...and assimilate, utilize, enhance trading methods he or she has never been exposed to...

 

In my view, the ‘voice of trading’ actively discourages the search... with incessant promises that there is ‘nothing to be found’ ... certainly no ‘grail’ . That is a form of mind control that pretends depth doesn’t exist. Jon Rappoport calls it “the thinning of context” ...

 

"Speed hides need. Nothing is as easy as it looks, when it’s done quickly; nor as difficult as it feels, when it’s done slowly. If you can’t perform it slowly enough, you haven’t developed it well enough. Slow makes smooth; smooth makes fast. Let speed come from skill, not as a substitute for it." Scott Sonnon

 

Parsifal MUST search!

Parsifal comes to a natural and adaptive end to the search... he needed it ... then he outgrows it.

 

"dwell" bitches

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • PTCT PTC Therapeutics stock watch, trending with a pull back to 45.17 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?PTCT
    • APPS Digital Turbine stock, nice rally off the 1.47 triple+ support area, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?APPS
    • Date: 20th December 2024.   BOE Sees More Support For Rate Cuts As USD Strengthens!   The US Dollar continues to rise in value after obtaining further support from positive economic and employment data. However, the hawkish Federal Reserve continues to support the currency. On the other hand, the Great British Pound comes under significant strain. Why is the GBPUSD declining? GBPUSD - Why is the GBPUSD Declining? The GBPUSD is witnessing bullish price movement for three primary reasons. The first is the Federal Reserve’s Monetary Policy, the second is the positive US news releases from yesterday and the third is the votes from the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee.     Even though the Bank of England chose to keep interest rates unchanged at 4.75%, the number of votes to cut indicates dovishness in the upcoming months. Previously, traders were expecting the BoE to remain cautious due to inflation rising to 2.6% and positive employment data. In addition to this, the Retail Sales data from earlier this morning only rose 0.2%, lower than expectations adding pressure to GBP. Investors also should note that the two currencies did not conflict and price action was driven by both an increasing USD and a declining GBP. The US Dollar rose in value against all currencies, except for the Swiss Franc, against which it saw a slight decline. The GBP fell against all currencies, except for the GBPJPY, which ended higher solely due to earlier gains. US Monetary Policy and Macroeconomics The bullish price movement seen within the US Dollar Index continues to partially be due to its hawkish monetary policy. Particularly, indications from Jerome Powell that the Fed will only cut on two occasions and the first cut will take place in May. However, in addition to this the economic data from yesterday continues to illustrate a resilient and growing economy. This also supports the Fed’s approach to monetary policy and its efforts to push inflation back to the 2% target. The US GDP rose 3.1% over the past quarter beating expectations of 2.8%. The GDP rate of 3.1% is also higher than the first two quarters of 2024 (1.4% & 3.0%). In addition to this, the US Weekly Unemployment Claims fell from 242,000 to 220,000 and existing home sales rose to 4.15 million. Home sales in the latest month rose to an 8-month high. For this reason, the US Dollar rose in value against most currencies throughout the day. Analysts believe the US Dollar will continue to perform well due to less frequent rate cuts and tariffs. The US Dollar Index trades 1.65% higher this week. Bank of England Sees Increased Support for Rate Cuts! The Bank of England kept interest rates unchanged as per market’s previous expectations. The decision is determined by a committee of nine members and at least five of them must vote for a cut for the central bank to proceed. Analysts anticipated only two members voting for a cut, but three did. This signals a dovish tone and increases the likelihood of earlier rate cuts in 2025. The three members that voted for a rate cut were Dave Ramsden, Swati Dhingra, and Alan Taylor. Advocates for lower rates believe the current policy is too restrictive and risks pushing inflation well below the 2.0% target in the medium term. Meanwhile, supporters of keeping the current monetary policy argue that it's unclear if rising business costs will increase consumer prices, reduce jobs, or slow wage growth. However, if markets continue to expect a more dovish Bank of England in 2025, the GBP could come under further pressure. In 2024, the GBP was the best performing currency after the US Dollar and outperformed the Euro, Yen and Swiss Franc. This was due to the Bank of England’s reluctance to adjust rates at a similar pace to other central banks. GBPUSD - Technical Analysis In terms of the price of the exchange, most analysts believe the GBPUSD will continue to decline so long as the Federal Reserve retains their hawkish tone. The exchange rate continues to form lower swing lows and lower highs. The price trades below most moving averages on the 2-hour timeframe and below the neutral level on oscillators. On the 5-minute timeframe, the price moves back towards the 200-bar SMA, but sell signals may materialise if the price falls back below 1.24894.     Key Takeaways: The US Dollar increases in value for a third consecutive day and increases its monthly rise to 2.32%. The US Dollar Index was the best performing currency of Thursday’s session, along with the Swiss Franc. US Gross Domestic Product rises to 3.1% beating economist’s expectations of 2.8%. US Weekly Unemployment Claims read 220,000, 22,000 less than the previous week and lower than expectations. The NASDAQ declines further and trades 5.00% lower than the previous lows. The GBPUSD ends the day 0.56% lower and falls more than 1% after the Bank of England’s rate decision. Three Members of the BoE vote to cut interest rates. The GBP was the worst performing currency of the day along with the Japanese Yen. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 19th December 2024.   Federal Reserve Sparks NASDAQ’s Sharpest Selloff of 2024!   The NASDAQ fell more than 3.60% after the Federal Reserve cut interest rates, but gave hawkish comments. The stock market saw its largest decline witnessed in 2024 so far, as investors opted to cash in profits and not risk in the short-medium term. What did Chairman Powell reveal, and how does it impact the NASDAQ? The NASDAQ Falls To December Lows After Fed Guidance! The NASDAQ and US stock market in general saw a considerable decline after the press conference of the Federal Reserve. The USA100 ended the day 3.60% lower and saw only 1 of its 100 stocks avoid a decline. Of the most influential stocks the worst performers were Tesla (-8.28%), Broadcom (-6.91%) and Amazon (-4.60%).     When monitoring the broader stock market, similar conditions are seen confirming the investor sentiment is significantly lower and not solely related to the tech industry. The worst performing sectors are the housing and banking sectors. However, investors should also note that the decline was partially due to a build-up of profits over the past months. As a result, investors could easily sell and reduce exposure to cash in profits and lower their risk appetite. Analysts note that despite the Federal Reserve's hawkish stance, the Chairman provided a positive outlook. He highlighted optimism for the economy and the employment sector. Therefore, many analysts continue to believe that investors will buy the dip, even if it’s not imminent. A Hawkish Federal Reserve And Powell’s Guidance Even though traditional economics suggests a rate cut benefits the stock market, the market had already priced in the cut. As a result, the rate cut could no longer influence prices. Investors are now focusing on how the Federal Reserve plans to cut in 2025. This is what triggered the selloff and the decline. Investors were looking for indications of 3-4 rate cuts by the Federal Reserve in 2025 and for the first cut to be in March. However, analysts advise that the forward guidance by the Chairman, Jerome Powell, clearly indicates 2 rate adjustments. In addition to this, analysts believe the Fed will now cut next in May 2025. The average expectation now is that the Federal Reserve will cut 0.25% on two occasions in 2025. The Fed also advised that it is too early to know the effect of tariffs and “when the path is uncertain, you go slower”. This added to the hawkish tone of the central bank. However, surveys indicate that 15% of analysts believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates at a faster pace. As a result, the US Dollar Index rose 1.25% and Bond Yields to a 7-month high. For investors, this makes other investment categories more attractive and stocks more expensive for foreign investors. However, the average decline the NASDAQ has seen before investors buy the dip is 13% ($19,320). This will also be a key level for investors if the NASDAQ continues to decline. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis Due to the bearish volatility, the price of the NASDAQ is trading below all major Moving Averages and Oscillators on the 2-Hour chart. After retracement the oscillators are no longer indicating an oversold price and continue to point to a bearish bias. Sell indications are likely to strengthen if the price declines below $21,222.60 in the short-term.       Key Takeaways: A hawkish Federal Reserve cut interest rates by 0.25% and indicates only 2 rate cuts in 2025! The stock market witnesses its worst day of 2024 due to the Fed’s hawkish forward guidance. Economists do not expect a rate cut before May 2025. Housing and bank stocks fell more than 4%. Investors are cashing in their gains and not looking to risk while the Fed is unlikely to cut again until May 2025. The US Dollar Index rises close to its highest level since November 2022. US Bond Yields also rise to their highest since May 2024. The NASDAQ’s average decline in 2024 before investors opt to purchase the dip is 13%. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • SNAP stock at 11.38 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?SNAP
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.