Holding yourself accountable

[brownsfan019 17]

I think most of us here would agree that holding yourself accountable to someone, some website, etc. is a very valuable tool in your trading business. With that being said, I was thinking tonight about this topic and wondering if there would be an interest here at TL. I thought it best to discuss the idea in the premium area for now and we can decide if/when to open it up more.

 

I guess the first question is - are there others here that would like to be held more accountable? If so, would you entertain the idea of using TL for this purpose?

 

And the follow up if you like the idea - how exactly would we do this? I'm sure some of you have seen the P&L thread over at elitetrader and I personally think it's an alright idea. No matter what we do anyone could alter their numbers, but for those that take it seriously I think we could help each other out.

 

I just remember the amount of accountability I had when I was a stockbroker. It was overwhelming at times actually - reporting your numbers, conf calls, etc. but in the end it was great. You KNEW that if you didn't do your job that day, week or month, not only would you feel terrible, but you would be put on the spot. Perhaps it's not the best 'feel good' method, but it will get your butt in gear, trust me.

 

There's different ways we can take this from serious to casual. We could set up a reward system for those that are consistently reporting their results, regardless of the P&L #'s. We can reward for the greatest earning P&L. Etc. Etc.

 

As we progress as traders, the basic forum functions here are not going to be much interest to any of us in my opinion. I can only talk about WRB's for so long. :p But something that provides an added value will keep me and others coming back even if the other areas of the forum get stale for us.

 

What do you think?

[torero 10]

Sounds like an interesting idea, I like it. It's not too far from what I'm currently doing in my website, I'm more or less keeping myself honest and accountable so this project is not that different. I'm interested but you have to lay down the details and split up different types of traders (i.e. swing vs. day traders, part-time vs fulltime day traders, YM vs ER2, small lots vs big lots) might be considered.

[TinGull 10]

Cool idea. This is one of the best things I've done for my trading. I've got a trading coach and he holds me accountable for everything. If I take a bad trade or something against my plan or whatever...I hear it. It's nice cause it really makes me think about my trades so I don't disappoint.

[Soultrader 12]

Hi guys,

 

Its great that you brought this up Brownsfan. I am currently redesigning the site (hired a professional). I am also looking to add a few custom features and a few things on my list included:

 

1. Thread rating system from a scale to A to F. So if each thread can have a rating next to it and can be sorted out by rating.

 

2. Trading Stats feature. The same exact concept brownsfan mentioned. I would like to actually discuss this with you guys on some of the features you prefer to see. This may include stats, bio, etc.. But I would need to some help on what type of stats.

 

3. Youtube like video section to make multimedia more interactive. I would like to see more traders make use of visual learning by sharing.

 

What do you guys think?

[walterw 10]

Nice, nice... in my last two weeks experience with "flip" sharing charts with good and bad performance has seriously helped me to be accountable on what I am doing, also my learning curve has been much faster by posting and comparing my own posts... in terms of stats, would be cool... nice idea indeed... I still promote you guys sharing charts on a consistent daliy basis, its of great help for yourself and for does that are interested on your aproach... cheers Walter.

[brownsfan019 17]

James - I guess it comes down to how the actual program and software are designed. For me, it's gotta be quick and easy. I think that's why a simple thread like the one at et has survived for so long. You just post your stats for the day and a blotter if you want to. It's not much, but it's something.

 

I would like to see a template where I can login, enter my info and then the software spits it back out in the same format each time and the same format for everyone else as well. This way you can train your eyes what to look for and scan thru the posts quickly.

 

Ideas for what to include:

Date, Number of trades, Number of winning/losing trades, Markets traded, Gross P&L, Net P&L, Blotter screenshot and a notes section.

 

Just some ideas that come to mind this morning.

[Soultrader 12]

Can you explain what a Blotter is? Also what did you mean when you said you wanted the software to spit back the same format? Thanks

[brownsfan019 17]

A blotter is just a screenshot of your P&L screen with sensitive account info blocked out. You can see some samples here.

 

As for the template and how it spits the info back out, I am thinking where you go to the 'P&L' area or whatever you decide to call it and all the info you need to enter is already there (Date, P&L, etc.) and then the software takes that info and presents it in the exact same format each time for each person so that it's a simple, clean look vs. everyone just kinda typing whatever they want.

 

An example of the output could be as simple as:

DATE:

# OF TRADES:

GROSS P&L:

NOTES:

 

The areas that need filled out are hard coded and the user simple enters the info for each area, hits submit and the software takes the coding and presents the info the same way.

 

This might not be feasible in a message board setting, it may need a separate area for this functionality to work. That's a question for your web designer.

[Guest cooter]

A blotter is just a screenshot of your P&L screen with sensitive account info blocked out.

 

Would anyone be willing to start a journal here with a blotter for all to see, I wonder....

[brownsfan019 17]

Would anyone be willing to start a journal here with a blotter for all to see, I wonder....

 

That's an idea as well coot. Depending on where James would like to take this, we could simply start a Journal section and you can do what I am talking about there. Only problem could be the amount of threads that would be going on at the same time (assuming many decided to do this).

 

The other way to take it is have one area dedicated to this where we all post in one area/thread.

 

I'm game for ideas and suggestions as long as there's an interest and others participate as well. The key in the end is that we keep it constructive.

 

One other idea James - I know you have a blog area, not sure if that's used much or not to be honest, but perhaps this idea can be utilized there. The only problem I have with blogging is that it feels like a chore after awhile.

[walterw 10]

That's an idea as well coot. Depending on where James would like to take this, we could simply start a Journal section and you can do what I am talking about there. Only problem could be the amount of threads that would be going on at the same time (assuming many decided to do this).

 

The other way to take it is have one area dedicated to this where we all post in one area/thread.

 

I'm game for ideas and suggestions as long as there's an interest and others participate as well. The key in the end is that we keep it constructive.

 

One other idea James - I know you have a blog area, not sure if that's used much or not to be honest, but perhaps this idea can be utilized there. The only problem I have with blogging is that it feels like a chore after awhile.

 

 

I personally think that a blog is constructive if the blogger will show how he took the trade with visual aid, and doing a serious auto-critic of his trades otherwise its most boring and unconstructive experience, hence so many people dont look at the blog section... if this stat will only tell you how much I made, how much I lost... but dont explain the why`s...well on the long run it will become futile...

[Guest cooter]

That's an idea as well coot. Depending on where James would like to take this, we could simply start a Journal section and you can do what I am talking about there. Only problem could be the amount of threads that would be going on at the same time (assuming many decided to do this).

 

The other way to take it is have one area dedicated to this where we all post in one area/thread.

 

I'm game for ideas and suggestions as long as there's an interest and others participate as well. The key in the end is that we keep it constructive.

 

One other idea James - I know you have a blog area, not sure if that's used much or not to be honest, but perhaps this idea can be utilized there. The only problem I have with blogging is that it feels like a chore after awhile.

 

True, but James could lock it down to the point where only the blogger/poster has access to update it, with another post setup for comments.

 

That way it doesn't become like another ET-fest

[Soultrader 12]

Would you guys prefer a thread or a complete new system? Im actually talking to a different programmer to see if this is possible. Give me a day or two to figure out the scrope of the project. But definitely sounds like a great feature.

[brownsfan019 17]

James - simply b/c the P&L thread already exists at et, I would love to see a completely separate area and display. If it's not feasible, the thread idea is a quick and easy option but if you want to make this stand out from the et thread, I would consider a separate area.

[Guest cooter]

James - simply b/c the P&L thread already exists at et, I would love to see a completely separate area and display. If it's not feasible, the thread idea is a quick and easy option but if you want to make this stand out from the et thread, I would consider a separate area.

 

Yes, but not everyone who joins here is an ET ex-pat, so to speak. Still, though, a separate forum for the journal, with a comment area too is a good idea.

[Soultrader 12]

Yes, but not everyone who joins here is an ET ex-pat, so to speak. Still, though, a separate forum for the journal, with a comment area too is a good idea.

 

Going to attempt to make a whole new system for it. I will keep you all posted.

 

PS: Please post any features you would like to see. Stats, data, charting, etc..

 

Thanks

[brownsfan019 17]

Yes, but not everyone who joins here is an ET ex-pat, so to speak. Still, though, a separate forum for the journal, with a comment area too is a good idea.

 

My guess is that most people end up at TL after at least viewing ET simply due to the popularity of ET. I'm not saying that means ET is better, but for now at least, ET is a well known forum.

 

With that being said, I think a separate function/area does a number of things:

1) Sets TL apart from all the other trading forums out there.

2) Can provide a very constructive way of documenting your trades, trading progress and receive constructive criticism (which we know is not always present at ET).

3) Depending on how far James takes this, it could really be a major selling point of TL and increase his member base dramatically, which is good for advertising, getting member discounts, etc.

[brownsfan019 17]

Going to attempt to make a whole new system for it. I will keep you all posted.

 

PS: Please post any features you would like to see. Stats, data, charting, etc..

 

Thanks

 

James,

My first suggestion is run a number of beta designs and get feedback here. This can be a great tool for TL and its' member base if done the right way. It's hard to give much feedback now until we start to see something and then I think the ideas will flow...

 

My suggestions at this point would be:

POSSIBLE ENTRY FIELDS:

Date

Number of trades

Number of winning/losing trades

Markets traded

Gross P&L

Net P&L

Type of trading (day, swing, scalp, etc.)

Blotter screenshot

Notes section

Misc uploads - charts, pdf's, etc.

 

Now, what you have the programmer do with that info is infinite... It would be neat to be able to run your own custom queries and spit out a chart. For example, say I wanted to search mine and/or others that are trading the ES. Run a query and I could see who's trading the same market as me. Or maybe I want to run a query on my winning % on Tuesdays. You can see where this could go James.

 

From a business perspective, this has the potential to create instant loyalty to TL vs. other forums. You could be providing a product that many traders do not have access to on their own. Something like this project has the potential to create some serious clicks and membership base, which is great for advertising, getting deals for members, etc. It could also justify a new member fee as well. Instead of using a new member fee to get rid of spammers, you can position the small fee as a way to access the software.

 

One other idea James is to chat with the guy from TraderDNA that has posted on the forum somewhere. Perhaps they could provide a 'slimmed' down version of their software for use at TL and in return could place ads in the software that says 'click here for a full version of the software you are using'. Basically a free version with no expiration date. That might be outside the box for most co's, but you never know unless you ask, right?

 

PS

Should some of these ideas work for you James, feel free to include the 'revenue sharing' aspect of TL...

[Nick1984 10]

Something similar to what you're talking about brownsfan is on Bodybuilding.com - The Future Of Bodybuilding! Huge Bodybuilding Site. where they have a "BodySpace" section where users can input their photos etc but as well as that there is a section where they put in their stats over different periods, and graphs etc of a persons weight, body fat, and lifts come up so they can see (and others can see obviously) how someone is progressing.

 

When you have a graphical representation of how you're doing which is public as well it really does put you on your toes because you're open to criticism!

[Soultrader 12]

Hey Nick,

 

Do you have a direct url to one of the pages with the charts? I have decided to pay to make a new system for this work. I asked a few coders and the type of work is fairly advanced. I would like to see some samples. Thanks

 

BTW... this may take a sometime building. I'll try to have a beta system available.

[brownsfan019 17]

EXCELLENT example Nick.

 

Here's the direct link: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/

 

For example, let's take a look at Kate: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Kate7hi/

As you can see, Kate has a great profile, with pic's, etc. Very well done.

 

Here's another example - http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/kmberlymartin/ Well done kimberly!

 

Ok, got sidetracked there...

 

Point being that they have a 'body space' area. Maybe TL could have a 'Trader Space' area (along the myspace theme).

 

What a great example Nick. Yes, some of the female pic's are nice, but it should give James a little idea of where this could go.

 

This can turn into a pretty labor intensive project James, so make sure you are prepared (time and money) to do this. I personally don't do things half way, and I would suggest this is an all or nothing deal if you want to take it in this direction. Again, a simple thread or 2 could be started today. Something like a Trader Space area is a big task that would require time and money. At least we got some ideas flowing here!

[Soultrader 12]

Actually that myspace look... is something I can get done in a day.

 

I thought about it but never thought it would be useful. I can have that up and running shortly. The data system will take some time but will somehow try to integrate it into the myspace them.

[Soultrader 12]

Actually, the bodyspace is a complete new sytem itself. I'll have to discuss this with my coder.

[torero 10]

I think if you can make a new type of blog for traders, that it, a simple blog + fields to fill out the trade, in, out, loss/win, then all the stats of cumulative trades.

 

The other thing is for someone who's a daytrader with large number of transactions per day, it would be nice to something we can upload or copy and paste the trades and have it processed automatically. Because data entry for yourself is one thing, but doing it again for others might be not so enthusiastic.

 

In terms of stats, I like to see max. drawdowns, sharpe ratio, avg. net profit.

[Soultrader 12]

Hello all,

 

I have some developing news. The project is currenty under way. I have a team of programmers writing this system from scratch. It will be a myspace like informational portal with chart features and stats.

 

Now, I also had the opportunity to talk with David from TraderDNA. We are trying to collaborate by using their analytical system and using it as a portal for Traders Laboratory. This has become a full blown project but something I will be spending time on for the next few weeks trying to build. If Traders Laboratory and TraderDNA can work together to provide these features, it would be extremely fascinating.

 

Now, in terms of features of TraderDNA... we are still in talks. Their services charge a monthly subscription fee starting from $50 a month. But I am more interested in making this feature free for all traders. Therefore we may decide to develop a light version. I will have to see.

 

I will keep you all posted on how this goes. No 100% guarantees on the collabo with TraderDNA, but regardless we will be making something similar to bodyspace.

 

Thanks!