does anyone use marketdelta.com?

[darthtrader 10]

ehh..like i said in the intro section i found this forum trying to find a cheaper version of marketdelta.com/Brett Steenbarger's MP/MD ideas.

 

does anyone here actually pay for market delta? The market profile on the cheap thread i made should have really been "market delta on the cheap".

 

market delta looks fantastic, you guys seem to be quite profitable to be able to afford 300 bucks a month. if you don't use marketdelta.com is it just because the TS tools proxy it close enough to not bother with the fee?

 

damn Mind Over Markets is stuck in the next state, i'm so hungry for this info, its driving me nuts.

[Soultrader 12]

Im working on obtaining a discount for members on the board. So give me a few days if you plan to use their services. Thanks

[BlowFish 10]

The various trade station indicators work well enough. Investor RT with MD really is an expensive tool. Personally I prefer to buy rather than lease also. I'd probably go with Neoticker if I wanted to do delta analysis. That would also allow you to do order book analysis or in theory to construct the delta of an index from underlying stocks if you so desire! (if your hardware will cope with it).

 

I have gone back to looking how volume develops as a bar builds without regard for whether its on the bid or ask. For me it was a bit of a "cant see the forest for the trees" type situation. I do go back now and again and watch it for a month or so (using Multicharts and public domain indicators) but while it does provide a microscopic view of the market I wonder if that really adds that much to my trading.

 

Cheers,

Nick.

[notouch 10]

For me MarketDelta was informational overkill but I can see how others could make successful strategies with it. Remember it's just a charting tool. It doesn't tell you when to buy or sell and the strategies published on their website are pretty lame. It would definitely be possible to develop your own strategies for it but you'd need to have experience of strategy development.

[BlowFish 10]

Amen to all of that Notouch. I watched a presentation Trevor did for the CME recently. I noticed he still talks about 'buying' and 'selling' when of course we all know each trade has both a buyer and seller. A lot of the stuff that is presented is simplistic and based on stuff that just aint true (imho). Of course that dosent mean that the tool is no good.

 

What it does shows broadly speaking is which side market orders (including stops) are hitting. If you can use that information to better guage order flow I can see how you could build successfully strategies around it.

 

Some people like to use an absolute value during the open to gauge if a sustained move for the day is likely. They reckon that it requires a certain imbalance to get things really cooking.

 

Cheers.

[MidKnight 12]

Hi DarthTrader,

 

I gave the marketdelta (at the time it was called IRT) footprint and MP charts a good hard try. I stuck with it for just over a year. I totally agree with notouch above stating that the marketdelta website is overly simplistic and he is trying to sell it like some sort of 'no brainer' system. The original market delta Trevor sold even had those fancy buy/sell arrows that really boosts sales. He makes it sound like you just buy when the column delta is green and sell when the column delta is red. That sort of trading will make you broke in a very short time. Very often you can get extremely high/low delta readings but it is passively being absorbed.

 

I also find this level of detail is more confusing with a heavily arb'd market. You can get a more generalized view, and I believe more useful view with a simple net buy/sell summary per bar. In marketdelta they call this volume breakdown indicator.

 

In closing, after trying hard to make the marketdelta tools (primarily the footprint charting) work for me, I had to admit that it wasn't adding to my bottom line and was instead hindering my performance by keeping me off many really good trades. I like the concept and the theory but could not turn it into more $$$s in my account. Because of this, I dumped it last month and switched over to neoticker to pursue a simplier version of what I was doing with market delta tools centered around the same theme -- supply and demand.

 

Best regards,

MK

[darthtrader 10]

excellent, thanks guys. It's far too pricey for me but wasn't sure if there was something there i would be missing out on. Last thing I need right now is information overkill.

[darthtrader 10]

Looking at this thread now makes me feel good because I'm learning. In all honesty, everyone that replied to this 2 months ago went way over my head :rolleyes: I actually get what you guys were talking about now from reading this board and Dalton now.

 

Marketdelta is out of the picture for good, its just way overpriced.

I just watched all the videos they have again this weekend and noticed the cumulative delta +/- per bar I think could make for an interesting indicator if you wanted to guage the trend as far as what is being hit bid/ask with market orders and lifting or lowering price, that could be some usefull info large trader wise.

 

Blowfish, I had no idea what you were talking about with neoticker and building the delta of the underlying(from the book no less) when I first read it but damn....thats intense....

 

Is neoticker's language hard to learn? Right before I found this board I had gone through pretty much every piece of software and mentally grouped neoticker with openquant but now that I know a bit more I see its not that unattainable.

[BlowFish 10]

Its a long time since I had Neoticker but one of there selling points is if you have a fast machine and good bandwidth you can build your own indexes in realtime (I never did that!) In theory thre is no reason why you could not do that for the delta of an index.

 

Neoticker is a prety fine product if you are doing 'heavy duty' indicators, coding and/or system based stuff. To be honest my style is pretty discretionary (how is price behaving around S/R) I still keep looking for excuses to buy a copy of NT though (I only leased before).

 

Cheers.

[darthtrader 10]

I see neo is pretty expensive. I'm also mostly interested in discretionary trading. I see you can program tradestation, I guess there is just something "cool" about what you can do with neo but i'm going to forget about it for now as its a waste of time for my current goals.

 

Have you ever done any valuation modelling in TS fundy wise? I had started to look away from TS then found the fantastic number of params you can screen right into a balance sheet with. Kind of suprised more people don't use TS for that.

[darthtrader 10]

Well back to this again...I'm just going to have to try this and spend the money. From looking up stuff on this all weekend, while agree with what was stated up top that this seems totally useless on its own I just can't believe this information wouldnt be worth it if your using it to make more informed decissions on what your already doing,especially with market profile.

 

lots of interesting charts here

http://blog.marketdelta.com/

 

The thing I thought was most interesting from looking at the charts was in a trend.

 

If you figure that there is no good trade location in a strong trend, then it makes sense that everyone is trying to front run eachother with aggressive market orders.It would be interesting to see more charts like that and if that is a general property of a strong trend or those charts were just random luck.

 

Something else interesting with the charts on that site is that bar on the bottom. It looks like in a balancing market the deltas are rotating back and forth, while the magnitude of the deltas get lower(which would make total sense for a balancing market). Then in a trend you get more of the same prints in a line while the magnitude increases.

 

I wonder if that volume delta indicator for tradestation on here could be tweaked to better show the magnitude of the deltas better? In its current form it seems a bit binary as far as what its really giving you information wise.

[Blu-Ray 10]

Darth

 

You can get a free 30 day trial if you click here:

https://www.marketdelta.com/newsite/trial.aspx

 

Although you do need a data feed for it, I tried it with IQfeed and thought it was okay, but a case of information overload. However, on reflection, I think it was just me because I'm that used to the Tradestation platform and just couldn't ( or wouldn't ) get use to their platform.

 

But I think it would do the trick for you, since you're looking for good MP charts and volume by price charts, I think you can't go wrong.

 

Hope this helps

 

Blu-Ray

[darthtrader 10]

hey blue,

I haven't tried the demo yet. I emailed them about the vwap. If I can get jerry's stuff going on the charts I'm sold. I think I might get a job on saturdays just to keep my software costs at zero.. I could see the information overload with all the different features. Just feels like I'f im going to do this, may as well start off learning with everything that I want.

The MP charts do look fantastic too.

[OAC 10]

Hi DarthTrader,

 

I gave the marketdelta (at the time it was called IRT) footprint and MP charts a good hard try. I stuck with it for just over a year. I totally agree with notouch above stating that the marketdelta website is overly simplistic and he is trying to sell it like some sort of 'no brainer' system. The original market delta Trevor sold even had those fancy buy/sell arrows that really boosts sales. He makes it sound like you just buy when the column delta is green and sell when the column delta is red. That sort of trading will make you broke in a very short time. Very often you can get extremely high/low delta readings but it is passively being absorbed.

 

I also find this level of detail is more confusing with a heavily arb'd market. You can get a more generalized view, and I believe more useful view with a simple net buy/sell summary per bar. In marketdelta they call this volume breakdown indicator.

 

In closing, after trying hard to make the marketdelta tools (primarily the footprint charting) work for me, I had to admit that it wasn't adding to my bottom line and was instead hindering my performance by keeping me off many really good trades. I like the concept and the theory but could not turn it into more $$$s in my account. Because of this, I dumped it last month and switched over to neoticker to pursue a simplier version of what I was doing with market delta tools centered around the same theme -- supply and demand.

 

Best regards,

MK

 

From my observation from various sources, I get the impression that the Bid and Ask data have to be analyzed in 30-minute aggregates similar to a TPO.

Anything smaller in the 1-minute,3-minute , and similar tick increments seem to reflect a lot of the Arb activities

[ckait 10]

Its been a month now did you get market delta ? is it helping ?

[404 10]

any update on the software?

[darthtrader 10]

I've basically become a convert to this tool. The odd thing is i think the footprint type charting is the least usefull thing. The volume profile is top notch and cant be beat. The peak volume intra bar marker is just so nice and obvious.

A really interesting feature is plotting the chart as delta bars. Here is a chart that only plots a bar once 300 contracts have been hit volume wise on one side of the bid/ask. Its pretty easy then to stay on the trend, then when the low bar is in but with delta in the opposite direction then the move is almost by nature stalling out. The tempo of the market is pretty easy to feel this way too as on this chart, the down move took 20 minutes. Then that one bar took 20 minutes to print near the left side as the market stalled and became indecisive.

I'm not sure how much this software makes sense if you use candle patterns or what not. For MP trading though it fits like a glove.

[404 10]

darth...thanks for posting that chart. any others...this looks pretty interesting!

[404 10]

Can I get some feedback from those using Market Delta?

 

I am looking into it...

[ckait 10]

I use market delta from Fin Alg couldnt imagine trading without it.

[404 10]

Whats Fin Alg?

[Jabo22 10]

Fin alg sells Marketdelta plug-ins for the NIjatrader platform. One plug-in is for Market profile on Ninjatrader charts and the other Plug-in is for Maerketdelta Footprint for Nijatrader cahrts. The cost is $275 one time and 59/month respectively.

 

THe marketprofile plugin for ninjatrader is one of the best.

[drago1 10]

I have used both MarketDelta(MD) Bid Ask Footprint and Ninja Fin-Alg licensed version of MD. I think for the money that the considerably less expensive version from Fin Alg is the better value. However, to be fair, MarketDelta offers alot more. (replay for example) MP is extra monthly charge,

 

As far as practical benefit - it is like many "indicators" - brilliant in hind site however for me it was too easy to get lost in the details of the bid ask footprints and lose perspective of the overall picture. Even the delta readings can be very misleading. They both offer trials.