Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

RichardCox

Fibonacci and Trade Scaling

Recommended Posts

Fibonacci and Trade Scaling

 

When I first started trading I was losing in most of my positions – as everyone does. I started trading with no real strategy and whatever activity I was conducting should be described more as gambling than as trading. This is because there was no real ‘rhyme or reason’ to my approach and since I was randomly selecting assets to buy or sell, I had no better chance than guessing a coin flip on any given occasion. Of course, many lessons followed and a good deal of those had to do with the technical analysis techniques I have written about in the Forex column of this website.

 

But not everything comes down to mathematical probabilities, and there is a good deal of ‘common sense’ that is employed by every successful trader. One example of this can be seen in the fact that it is essentially impossible to consistently nail down the perfect trade entry. It is possible to get lucky now and then – even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But expecting to do this with any consistency is totally unrealistic and should not even be viewed as an approachable goal. Does this mean that traders should feel hopeless when making the decision to pull the trigger on a trade? Not at all.

 

Separating Your Trade Entries

 

The first mistake that many traders make is to place an entire position stake in a single location. For example, you are bullish on the Euro and you decide to buy the EUR/USD at 1.35. At best, these novice traders will at least follow the conventional wisdom and never enter into a position that puts more than 2% of your total account at risk. But this is not nearly enough trade planning as it still suggests that the trader had entered into the position at the exact right time and place. Since this is almost never the case, more work needs to be done in the planning stages – before any orders are executed.

 

Specifically, this means separating your positions into multiple parts. “The easiest way to scale into positions if doing to divide your trade size in twos or threes,” said Tony Davis, head trader at Atlanta Gold and Coin. “and then to find two or three places on your chart where price activity is likely to work in your favor (i.e. clearly defined support or resistance levels).”

 

Risks

 

I first realized that this was a preferable approach during a GBP/JPY trade, which as you might know is one of the more volatile forex pairs. At this stage, I was mostly looking for trades that risked about 125-150 pips but I quickly learned that this was an unrealistic expectation for this low-liquidity pair, which is capable of significant intraday moves. In this case, I quickly found my position in negative territory, down -150 pips, and I had to make a decision because I was starting to exceed my previous risk threshold. Some traders argue that you should never deviate from your original game plan, but I could never totally agree with that. Instead, I chose to double my position, and improve on my average price. In this case, the trade did rebound in my favor and I was able to close out at a profit.

 

Some experienced traders would argue that the above approach was a bad idea – and in some ways they are correct. I did break my original trading rules and expose myself to double the losses in a market that was already working against me. But I think the most valuable lesson for me in this case was that establishing your entire position in the same location (the same price level), is one of the biggest mistakes that a trader can make. Does that mean I should have doubled my position in the above scenario? No. It means that I should have divided my position in half (or in thirds, fourths, etc), and then scaled into the position once the market started working against me.

 

Of course, this means that your regular trading activities are going to become much more complicated. You cannot simply find a support or resistance level and then place your entire order in that area. Instead, you will need to find two or three (or more) separate entries and actively expect that the market is going to start working against you. Could the market immediately turn in your favor? Of course, and in this case you would not be trading at a full position size (which also means reduced profits). But what is most important here is to adequately manage risk and protect yourself from unnecessary losses. This benefit outweighs even the more substantial profits that would have been realized if you had staked your entire position and the market immediately started to work in your favor. The reason for this comes from the fact that the favorable scenario is far less likely, and will happen much less often when compared to situations where your initial trade entry was ‘less than perfect.’

 

Possible Strategies

 

339nc5s.png

 

(Chart Source: Orbex)

 

The next question you should be asking yourself here is: How can I find multiple entry points for a single trade? There are many ways of doing this. Even the simplest technical analysis strategies will generally outline more than one support or resistance level on any given chart, and these can be used to define price areas that that agree with your original strategy. For example, in the chart above, we can see relatively clear historical resistance levels in the Euro at 1.37 and just above 1.38. Many charts will have more than two support or resistance lines drawn. So hypothetically, there would be nothing wrong with establishing half a short position once prices reach 1.37 and then wait to add on the second half if prices continue higher into the 1.38s.

 

This would give you an average position size of roughly 1.3760, rather than your original 1.37. When you have live positions, this added trade cushioning can make a significant difference if things start to work out unfavorably. But what is even more important here is the fact that prices would have had to break all of your original prices and the next one in order to stop you out. Moves like this are relatively unlikely, and these types of market tendencies are outlined in these courses to learn finance online. This is one way that traders can turn the probabilities in their own favor, and this is a strategy approach that should be applied in almost all cases.

 

Fibonacci

Fibonacci studies offer another possibility. But what is most important to remember with Fibonacci is that the numbers should be viewed as approximations. Many traders claim to base positions on the ‘cosmic nature’ of the Fibonacci sequence (the Golden Ratio). The financial markets are just another organism in the universe, why wouldn't they follow the rules of physics that every other entity must follow (tree branches, shell shapes, hurricanes, etc.). Not all of us subscribe to these types of ideas and not all us us feel the need to define a retracement by its relationship to the 38.2% or 61.8% Fib level.

 

Instead, I am interested in what is happening to the price at any given moment. Is something likely to happen in this asset? Right now? If not, move on to the next chart. If so, start looking at how a trade could be positioned. It is just as acceptable to view these retracements in thirds, so instead of the 38.2% retracement, you are viewing the market as having had a one-third retracement of its original move.

 

Let’s say your criteria are met. In order to use Fibonacci, you need to identify a predetermined price move. This is easier said than done because there are a lot of prices moves on a price chart. Everything that happens on a price chart is a price move.

 

Fibonacci Example

 

Not enough space here to get into how to define a retracement move. I have explained Fibonacci in depth here in other articles (for example, here and here). The graphic below shows how you should be looking at when using Fibonacci to scale into a position.

 

292v5z6.png

 

(Chart Source: Orbex)

 

In the chart above, we can see clearly defined Fib resistance at 1.3770 (38.2% retracement), at 1.3820 ( the 50% retracement), and at 1.3860 (the 61.8% retracement). Traders looking to enter into bearish positions could place one short entry at each of these levels (a third in each position), with a stop above the two-thirds retracement of the original decline. This would allow you to scale into your position and protect against major upside risk while using the Fibonacci retracement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I somewhat agree and disagree with your article. While I have made heavy use of scaling-in for my Hang Seng trading in the past, I do it very rarely nowadays for the following reasons:

 

  • the practice shifts the methodology focus from being right rather than towards expectancy
  • ego can become covertly intertwined with ones trade ideas because the focus is on being right
  • as mentioned, if it only fills partial size and goes to targets you only get small profits. This is a big problem for a couple of reasons. First, one needs to track which happens more often. If it is quite common to fill your first entry and then go to target this will really hurt your bottom line. Secondly, it covertly teases the mind to want to be filled on your subsequent entries so you are at full size for a good pay day. This can be a huge risk to your trading mentality.
  • to me, it isn't really following the market. The entries are out of blind faith.

 

Yes doing a scale-in approach can give an extremely nice win%, but in my personal trading it produces less money than a much lower win% method. Readers need to do the work and assess it for themselves within their own method.

 

With kind regards,

MK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • By millonmethod
      Hello everyone!
      I am an advanced trader, with many years of experience (about 15 years - 10 living exclusively from this)
      I am going to give you some tips that you must know:
      There are going to be many people who tell you that trade is easy, that with only crossiing a line  with another one you will win a lot of money.... and that´s not true.  No, Sir, reality is far away from that. Many people who start arrive here with the hope that someone "gives them" a free method, they watch youtube videos thinking that this will give them the "strategy" and in a few days they realize that it does not work for them - they lose money - and then They go looking for a new one ... and so on. YES, IT´S TRUE YOU EARN IN TRADING, A LOT. BUT THINK: for a few to win (10% + any BROKER) many others must lose (90% people). YOU MUST HAVE A MONEY MANAGMENT FORMULA ( you can email me) People study so many years to live on this, not because they are dumb, but to know what they do, when, and have absolute effectiveness. It´s very easy to get lost here: do not disperse, jumping from one to another strategy WILL NEVER give you money, it will only waste your time and make you nervous when trading. PEOPLE WHO CHANGE THEIR METHOD CONSTANTLY : LOOOOSE ALWAYS.   If you have the knowledge to develop it, take your time and do it.  Always try it first on DEMO for at least 2 weeks! If not: search to buy a solid strategy (no you tube videos pleassse ! Avoid losing money! ) This is like any business, it requires some capital to start (capital = money in the broker + solid made /purchased strategy) If you are lost: I RECOMMEND YOU NOT TO WASTE TIME IN YOUTUBE, JOIN PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO BUY A METHOD ... PLEASE !!!! DO NOT BUY 10 BAD AND CHEAP METHODS, SAVE MONEY AND BUY ONLY 1 BUT EXCLUSIVE AND MUST ALLWAYS HAVE SUPPORT !!!!!  Do not buy Signals! They never keep up with constant profits! One week will win and the next will lose. Nothing that does not depend absolutely on you will give you the money you are looking for. And if you do not have a strategy (made or purchased) do not even try PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: DO NOT USE REAL MONEY! AT LEAST 2 WEEK DEMO FREE HELP HERE!!!!!  IF YOU FOLLOW MY ADVICE YOU WILL BE PART OF THAT 10% WINNER, email me.
      Have a nice trading day
       
       
    • By jason.lee
      How to reduce eroding Forex slippages? Slippage is more likely to occur in times of higher volatility (perhaps due to market events) and it makes a market order at a specific price impossible to execute. Such times are when large orders are executed, when market orders are used and when there is not enough interest at the desired price level to keep the expected trade price. 

       
      Slippage is neither negative or positive movements, it is simply the difference between the expected purchase price and actual executed price. Since the corresponding securities are bought and sold at the most favorable price available, an order can result differently. In this situation, most forex dealers will execute the trade at the next best price.  In forex world, the market prices changes fast and the slippage happens in times of delay between the order placed and its completion. 

       
      Slippage is the difference between the expected filled price of a trade and the actual price filled. In other words, when your trade is executed at a worse price than requested, so it is “slipping” from the original order price. It happens between the time that a trader enters the trade and the time the trade is made. It can happen to everyone in any given trading market; stock, currency, or commodity.

       
      This may be caused by an ineffective broker, increased liquidity and fast market. The forex market is very liquid and there are limited amounts of slippage.

      Share your Idea Please
      Thanks!
    • By FXTechstrategyT
      EURUSD: Backs Off Lower Prices, Eyes More Strength
      EURUSD: The pair looks to extend its recovery triggered the past week in the new week. On the upside, resistance comes in at 1.1750 level with a cut through here opening the door for more upside towards the 1.1800 level. Further up, resistance lies at the 1.1850 level where a break will expose the 1.1900 level. Conversely, support lies at the 1.1700 level where a violation will aim at the 1.1650 level. A break of here will aim at the 1.1600 level. Below here will open the door for more weakness towards the 1.1550. All in all, EURUSD faces further upside pressure.
    • By trading4life
      Hello, My name is trading4life.
      I just joined this forum.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 21st February 2025.   European PMI Disappoint, Weighing on Euro Before German Elections   The Euro is the first currency to witness the volatility on this month’s PMI reports. The French, German and British PMI data have resulted in the Euro being the worst-performing currency of the European Session so far. However, will the Euro continue to decline throughout the day? European Purchasing Managers’ Indexes The French Purchasing Managers Index was the first European index to be made public. The release resulted in the Euro instantly declining 0.24%. The main concern from the French data was the Services PMI which fell from 48.2 to 44.5. Previously the market was expecting the data to remain more or less unchanged. The weak data triggered the decline which came to a halt after Germany’s PMI was released.     The German Manufacturing PMI read 0.5 points higher than previous expectations and the Services PMI was 0.2 points lower. The data from Germany was a relief for Euro investors and the price rose 0.12% higher. However, traders should note that the price of the EURUSD continues to remain 0.20% lower than yesterday’s close. The price of the EURUSD will now depend on the PMI data from the US. The value of the US Dollar will depend on its PMI release this afternoon and the Consumer Sentiment Index. Analysts expect both the US Services and Manufacturing PMI data to remain above the 50.00 level in the expansion zone. German Elections 2 Days Away Germany is set to hold a general election this Sunday, February 23rd, following the collapse of the coalition of social democrats, liberals, and greens. Given the country's highly proportional electoral system, German polls provide a strong indication of potential government formations post-election. The main concern for Germany is the AFD party who are Far-Right Nationalists. Currently, ahead in the polls are CDU (centre-right), and AFD (far right), followed by the SPD (centre-left). Traders should note that the results of the elections are likely to trigger strong volatility on Monday, but also influence volatility today. Economists may become further concerned if the far-right gains power for the first time due to uncertainty. If the government, similar to France, is unable to form a coalition, this would also be a concern for the Eurozone. Furthermore, the Euro this week is also under pressure from comments from members of the European Central Bank. ECB Governing Council member Fabio Panetta said to journalists that officials need not slow interest rate cuts, as January's 2.5% inflation is still expected to reach the 2.0% target this year. He also advised the European economy is weaker than previously expected. EURUSD - Technical Analysis and Indicators The EURUSD is trading above the 75-bar Exponential Moving Average and 100-bar Simple Moving Average on the 2-hour chart. However, the price is moving away from the key resistance level at 1.05058 indicating the price is losing momentum. The short-term volatility is indicating the price is retracing downwards. On the 5-minute timeframe, the price is trading below the 200-bar SMA and is also forming clear lower lows and highs. Simultaneously, the US Dollar Index is trading above the 200-bar SMA on the 5-minute chart confirming no current conflicts. Currently, the US Dollar is the best-performing currency of the day attempting to regain losses from the past 2 weeks. Watch today’s Live Analysis Session for more signals as they develop!   Key Takeaway Points: Weak French Services PMI triggered an initial Euro decline, but German PMI provide a slight relief. However, EURUSD remains lower than yesterday’s close. The Euro’s direction now depends on the US PMI reports, with analysts expecting US data to stay in expansion territory. Sunday's German election could drive volatility, especially if the far-right AFD gains power or if coalition formation proves difficult. ECB official Fabio Panetta suggested no need to slow rate cuts, citing weaker-than-expected economic performance and expected inflation decline. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • BE Bloom Energy stock, watch for a range breakout, target 34 area at https://stockconsultant.com/?BE
    • APLD Applied Digital stock. nice rally, watch for a top of range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?APLD
    • UAL United Airlines stock, watch for a narrow range breakout, target 122 area at https://stockconsultant.com/?UAL
    • WBD Warner Bros Discovery stock, watch for a range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?WBD
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.