Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

RichardCox

Fibonacci and Trade Scaling

Recommended Posts

Fibonacci and Trade Scaling

 

When I first started trading I was losing in most of my positions – as everyone does. I started trading with no real strategy and whatever activity I was conducting should be described more as gambling than as trading. This is because there was no real ‘rhyme or reason’ to my approach and since I was randomly selecting assets to buy or sell, I had no better chance than guessing a coin flip on any given occasion. Of course, many lessons followed and a good deal of those had to do with the technical analysis techniques I have written about in the Forex column of this website.

 

But not everything comes down to mathematical probabilities, and there is a good deal of ‘common sense’ that is employed by every successful trader. One example of this can be seen in the fact that it is essentially impossible to consistently nail down the perfect trade entry. It is possible to get lucky now and then – even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But expecting to do this with any consistency is totally unrealistic and should not even be viewed as an approachable goal. Does this mean that traders should feel hopeless when making the decision to pull the trigger on a trade? Not at all.

 

Separating Your Trade Entries

 

The first mistake that many traders make is to place an entire position stake in a single location. For example, you are bullish on the Euro and you decide to buy the EUR/USD at 1.35. At best, these novice traders will at least follow the conventional wisdom and never enter into a position that puts more than 2% of your total account at risk. But this is not nearly enough trade planning as it still suggests that the trader had entered into the position at the exact right time and place. Since this is almost never the case, more work needs to be done in the planning stages – before any orders are executed.

 

Specifically, this means separating your positions into multiple parts. “The easiest way to scale into positions if doing to divide your trade size in twos or threes,” said Tony Davis, head trader at Atlanta Gold and Coin. “and then to find two or three places on your chart where price activity is likely to work in your favor (i.e. clearly defined support or resistance levels).”

 

Risks

 

I first realized that this was a preferable approach during a GBP/JPY trade, which as you might know is one of the more volatile forex pairs. At this stage, I was mostly looking for trades that risked about 125-150 pips but I quickly learned that this was an unrealistic expectation for this low-liquidity pair, which is capable of significant intraday moves. In this case, I quickly found my position in negative territory, down -150 pips, and I had to make a decision because I was starting to exceed my previous risk threshold. Some traders argue that you should never deviate from your original game plan, but I could never totally agree with that. Instead, I chose to double my position, and improve on my average price. In this case, the trade did rebound in my favor and I was able to close out at a profit.

 

Some experienced traders would argue that the above approach was a bad idea – and in some ways they are correct. I did break my original trading rules and expose myself to double the losses in a market that was already working against me. But I think the most valuable lesson for me in this case was that establishing your entire position in the same location (the same price level), is one of the biggest mistakes that a trader can make. Does that mean I should have doubled my position in the above scenario? No. It means that I should have divided my position in half (or in thirds, fourths, etc), and then scaled into the position once the market started working against me.

 

Of course, this means that your regular trading activities are going to become much more complicated. You cannot simply find a support or resistance level and then place your entire order in that area. Instead, you will need to find two or three (or more) separate entries and actively expect that the market is going to start working against you. Could the market immediately turn in your favor? Of course, and in this case you would not be trading at a full position size (which also means reduced profits). But what is most important here is to adequately manage risk and protect yourself from unnecessary losses. This benefit outweighs even the more substantial profits that would have been realized if you had staked your entire position and the market immediately started to work in your favor. The reason for this comes from the fact that the favorable scenario is far less likely, and will happen much less often when compared to situations where your initial trade entry was ‘less than perfect.’

 

Possible Strategies

 

339nc5s.png

 

(Chart Source: Orbex)

 

The next question you should be asking yourself here is: How can I find multiple entry points for a single trade? There are many ways of doing this. Even the simplest technical analysis strategies will generally outline more than one support or resistance level on any given chart, and these can be used to define price areas that that agree with your original strategy. For example, in the chart above, we can see relatively clear historical resistance levels in the Euro at 1.37 and just above 1.38. Many charts will have more than two support or resistance lines drawn. So hypothetically, there would be nothing wrong with establishing half a short position once prices reach 1.37 and then wait to add on the second half if prices continue higher into the 1.38s.

 

This would give you an average position size of roughly 1.3760, rather than your original 1.37. When you have live positions, this added trade cushioning can make a significant difference if things start to work out unfavorably. But what is even more important here is the fact that prices would have had to break all of your original prices and the next one in order to stop you out. Moves like this are relatively unlikely, and these types of market tendencies are outlined in these courses to learn finance online. This is one way that traders can turn the probabilities in their own favor, and this is a strategy approach that should be applied in almost all cases.

 

Fibonacci

Fibonacci studies offer another possibility. But what is most important to remember with Fibonacci is that the numbers should be viewed as approximations. Many traders claim to base positions on the ‘cosmic nature’ of the Fibonacci sequence (the Golden Ratio). The financial markets are just another organism in the universe, why wouldn't they follow the rules of physics that every other entity must follow (tree branches, shell shapes, hurricanes, etc.). Not all of us subscribe to these types of ideas and not all us us feel the need to define a retracement by its relationship to the 38.2% or 61.8% Fib level.

 

Instead, I am interested in what is happening to the price at any given moment. Is something likely to happen in this asset? Right now? If not, move on to the next chart. If so, start looking at how a trade could be positioned. It is just as acceptable to view these retracements in thirds, so instead of the 38.2% retracement, you are viewing the market as having had a one-third retracement of its original move.

 

Let’s say your criteria are met. In order to use Fibonacci, you need to identify a predetermined price move. This is easier said than done because there are a lot of prices moves on a price chart. Everything that happens on a price chart is a price move.

 

Fibonacci Example

 

Not enough space here to get into how to define a retracement move. I have explained Fibonacci in depth here in other articles (for example, here and here). The graphic below shows how you should be looking at when using Fibonacci to scale into a position.

 

292v5z6.png

 

(Chart Source: Orbex)

 

In the chart above, we can see clearly defined Fib resistance at 1.3770 (38.2% retracement), at 1.3820 ( the 50% retracement), and at 1.3860 (the 61.8% retracement). Traders looking to enter into bearish positions could place one short entry at each of these levels (a third in each position), with a stop above the two-thirds retracement of the original decline. This would allow you to scale into your position and protect against major upside risk while using the Fibonacci retracement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I somewhat agree and disagree with your article. While I have made heavy use of scaling-in for my Hang Seng trading in the past, I do it very rarely nowadays for the following reasons:

 

  • the practice shifts the methodology focus from being right rather than towards expectancy
  • ego can become covertly intertwined with ones trade ideas because the focus is on being right
  • as mentioned, if it only fills partial size and goes to targets you only get small profits. This is a big problem for a couple of reasons. First, one needs to track which happens more often. If it is quite common to fill your first entry and then go to target this will really hurt your bottom line. Secondly, it covertly teases the mind to want to be filled on your subsequent entries so you are at full size for a good pay day. This can be a huge risk to your trading mentality.
  • to me, it isn't really following the market. The entries are out of blind faith.

 

Yes doing a scale-in approach can give an extremely nice win%, but in my personal trading it produces less money than a much lower win% method. Readers need to do the work and assess it for themselves within their own method.

 

With kind regards,

MK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • By millonmethod
      Hello everyone!
      I am an advanced trader, with many years of experience (about 15 years - 10 living exclusively from this)
      I am going to give you some tips that you must know:
      There are going to be many people who tell you that trade is easy, that with only crossiing a line  with another one you will win a lot of money.... and that´s not true.  No, Sir, reality is far away from that. Many people who start arrive here with the hope that someone "gives them" a free method, they watch youtube videos thinking that this will give them the "strategy" and in a few days they realize that it does not work for them - they lose money - and then They go looking for a new one ... and so on. YES, IT´S TRUE YOU EARN IN TRADING, A LOT. BUT THINK: for a few to win (10% + any BROKER) many others must lose (90% people). YOU MUST HAVE A MONEY MANAGMENT FORMULA ( you can email me) People study so many years to live on this, not because they are dumb, but to know what they do, when, and have absolute effectiveness. It´s very easy to get lost here: do not disperse, jumping from one to another strategy WILL NEVER give you money, it will only waste your time and make you nervous when trading. PEOPLE WHO CHANGE THEIR METHOD CONSTANTLY : LOOOOSE ALWAYS.   If you have the knowledge to develop it, take your time and do it.  Always try it first on DEMO for at least 2 weeks! If not: search to buy a solid strategy (no you tube videos pleassse ! Avoid losing money! ) This is like any business, it requires some capital to start (capital = money in the broker + solid made /purchased strategy) If you are lost: I RECOMMEND YOU NOT TO WASTE TIME IN YOUTUBE, JOIN PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO BUY A METHOD ... PLEASE !!!! DO NOT BUY 10 BAD AND CHEAP METHODS, SAVE MONEY AND BUY ONLY 1 BUT EXCLUSIVE AND MUST ALLWAYS HAVE SUPPORT !!!!!  Do not buy Signals! They never keep up with constant profits! One week will win and the next will lose. Nothing that does not depend absolutely on you will give you the money you are looking for. And if you do not have a strategy (made or purchased) do not even try PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: DO NOT USE REAL MONEY! AT LEAST 2 WEEK DEMO FREE HELP HERE!!!!!  IF YOU FOLLOW MY ADVICE YOU WILL BE PART OF THAT 10% WINNER, email me.
      Have a nice trading day
       
       
    • By jason.lee
      How to reduce eroding Forex slippages? Slippage is more likely to occur in times of higher volatility (perhaps due to market events) and it makes a market order at a specific price impossible to execute. Such times are when large orders are executed, when market orders are used and when there is not enough interest at the desired price level to keep the expected trade price. 

       
      Slippage is neither negative or positive movements, it is simply the difference between the expected purchase price and actual executed price. Since the corresponding securities are bought and sold at the most favorable price available, an order can result differently. In this situation, most forex dealers will execute the trade at the next best price.  In forex world, the market prices changes fast and the slippage happens in times of delay between the order placed and its completion. 

       
      Slippage is the difference between the expected filled price of a trade and the actual price filled. In other words, when your trade is executed at a worse price than requested, so it is “slipping” from the original order price. It happens between the time that a trader enters the trade and the time the trade is made. It can happen to everyone in any given trading market; stock, currency, or commodity.

       
      This may be caused by an ineffective broker, increased liquidity and fast market. The forex market is very liquid and there are limited amounts of slippage.

      Share your Idea Please
      Thanks!
    • By FXTechstrategyT
      EURUSD: Backs Off Lower Prices, Eyes More Strength
      EURUSD: The pair looks to extend its recovery triggered the past week in the new week. On the upside, resistance comes in at 1.1750 level with a cut through here opening the door for more upside towards the 1.1800 level. Further up, resistance lies at the 1.1850 level where a break will expose the 1.1900 level. Conversely, support lies at the 1.1700 level where a violation will aim at the 1.1650 level. A break of here will aim at the 1.1600 level. Below here will open the door for more weakness towards the 1.1550. All in all, EURUSD faces further upside pressure.
    • By trading4life
      Hello, My name is trading4life.
      I just joined this forum.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • NFLX Netflix stock, watch for a top of range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX
    • SMCI Super Micro Computer stock watch, attempting to move higher off the 34.06 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?SMCI        
    • UPST Upstart stock watch, pull back to 68.15 gap support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?UPST  
    • Why not to simply connect you account to myfxbook which will collect all this data automatically for you? The process you described looks tedious and a bit obsolete but may work for you though.
    • The big breakthrough with AI right now is “natural language computing.”   Meaning, you can speak in natural language to a computer and it can go through huge data sets, make sense out of them, and speak back to you in natural language.   That alone is a huge breakthrough.   The next leg? AI agents. Where they don’t just speak back to you.   They take action. Here’s the definition I like best: an AI agent is an autonomous system that uses tools, memory, and context to accomplish goals that require multiple steps.   Everything from simple tasks (analyzing web traffic) to more complex goals (building executive briefings or optimizing websites).   They can:   > Reason across multiple steps.   >Use tools like a real assistant (Excel spreadsheets, budgeting apps, search engines, etc.)   > Remember things.   And AI agents are not islands. They talk to other agents.   They can collaborate. Specialized agents that excel at narrow tasks can communicate and amplify one another’s strengths—whether it’s reasoning, data processing, or real-time monitoring.   What it Looks Like You wake up one morning, drink your coffee, and tell your AI agent, “I need to save $500 a month.”   It gets to work.   First, it finds all your recurring subscriptions. Turns out you’re paying $8.99 for a streaming service you forgot you had.   It cancels it. Then it calls your internet provider, negotiates a lower bill, and saves you another $40. Finally, it finds you car insurance that’s $200 cheaper per year.   What used to take you hours—digging through statements, talking to customer service reps on hold for an hour, comparing plans—is done while you’re scrolling Twitter.   Another example: one agent tracks your home maintenance needs and gets information from a local weather-monitoring agent. Result: "Rain forecast next week - should we schedule gutter cleaning now?"   Another: an AI agent will plan your vacations (“Book me a week in Italy for under $2,000”), find the cheapest flights, and sort out hotels with a view.   It’ll remind you to pay bills, schedule doctor’s appointments, and track expenses so you’re not wondering where your paycheck went every month.   The old world gave you tools—Excel spreadsheets, search engines, budgeting apps. The new world gives you agents who do the work for you.   Don’t Get Too Scared (or Excited) Yet William Gibson famously said: "The future is already here – it's just not evenly distributed."   AI agents will distribute it. For decades, the tools that billionaires and corporations used to get ahead—personal assistants, financial advisors, lawyers—were out of reach for regular people.   AI agents could change that.   BUT, remember…   We’re in inning one.   AI agents have a ways to go.   They’re imperfect. They mess up. They need more defenses to get ready for prime time.   To be sure, AI is powerful, but it’s not a miracle worker. It’s great at helping humans solve problems, but it’s not going to replace all jobs overnight.   Instead of fearing AI, think of it as a tool to A.] save you time on boring stuff and B.] amplify what you’re already good at. Right now is the BEST time to start experimenting. It’s also the best time to find investments that will “make AI work for you”. Author: Chris Campbell (AltucherConfidential)   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/     
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.