The "Flip" Trade (support and resistance changing roles)

[walterw 10]

What a day today... more flips... cheers Walter.

[Z_trade 10]

Walter, as always, your detailed explanation and road map for the *perfect flip* are excellent.

 

Today was another good day for flip trades and as Im new to the Woodie methods and his sets of CCI indicators, I m looking for the turbo CCI, mentioned by Walter and it indeed helps a lot for the zlr type of trade, if not using faster timeframe.

 

Have a good flip tades!

[walterw 10]

Yes Ztrade, I noticed that zlr type entries some times are dificult to read because the reading is based on the change of the indicators slope.... but having a cross is more easy to read... in this case I notice that with the turbo you get a very good timing of the zlr thru a 0 line cross reading wich is much easier...

 

Thanks Ztrade for interacting.... cheers Walter.

[Don4 10]

Walter, looks like u and Z had a pretty active day today!!!

[steph 10]

Walter,

 

Was short #1 an acceptable flip trade seeing how it didn’t quite make it to the resistance level I marked and it was only 1 bar?

#2 is a better one, although I didn’t take either trade because I only saw it after the fact.

 

I hope that with experience I’ll be able to:

1. recognize these setups in real time at the very edge of the chart, not the middle

2. be confident enough to take the trade(s)

 

Thanks for the help!

[walterw 10]

Walter, looks like u and Z had a pretty active day today!!!

 

Don, it was sensational ¡¡ I dont know if it was the day or if we are getting better to see more trades, how was forex my friend ?

[Don4 10]

Wasnt able to trade today,and will miss tomorrow (working some overtime at current job) but will be ready for next week. Glad to hear you had a great day!!!

[walterw 10]

Walter,

 

Was short #1 an acceptable flip trade seeing how it didn’t quite make it to the resistance level I marked and it was only 1 bar?

#2 is a better one, although I didn’t take either trade because I only saw it after the fact.

 

I hope that with experience I’ll be able to:

1. recognize these setups in real time at the very edge of the chart, not the middle

2. be confident enough to take the trade(s)

 

Thanks for the help!

 

 

HI Steph, welcome aboard ¡¡ nice chart you got there...

 

My inputs here : Your fist short to be a flip would need a previous pivot working as support on that level, so now it may become (after the break and pullback) resistance for a flip...

 

Your second short its a flip... you had a previous support pivot that defined the level, then you had a break and pullback to the level to have a flip...

 

On the same level of your second short you could had taken another flip as the level still is working as resistance...

 

Now, the "momentum flip" is the one that takes into consideration ONLY the pivots that are formed on the outerband levels to create the entire setup, from there on (see example) you expect a break of the level, then a pullback to the level and then the flip itself (bounce of level)... this "momentum flip" can have the edge of a momentum build up... in this thread I explain this potential from the keltners levels centrifugal action http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/momentum-vs-non-momentum-1763.html always momentum will show its face outside keltner... and normally cyclical and congestion action is expressed inside keltner, thats why we try to take flips on this extreme setups of the outerbands in order to have such potenciall momentum development.... sometimes it shows up, other times it simply doesnt....

 

Very nice job Steph, please keep interacting... cheers Walter.

[walterw 10]

Wasnt able to trade today,and will miss tomorrow (working some overtime at current job) but will be ready for next week. Glad to hear you had a great day!!!

 

Thanks Don, I think the flip trade its getting more clear to me at this stage... all its potential ,the good and bad aspects are showing their entire faces..

 

Kinda getting more stable on it... there is obviously more work to do, but the bases are clearly there...

 

Well next week then we will have some more forex flips... I like your charts... I already installed metatrader on my pc and created some charts exactly like yours, anyway today didnt look at them, YM kept me the entire session working...

 

Any way Don, if you want to post flips from historical data, feel free to do it, it always has a great educational value in order to internalize the concepts in the mind... good luck on work... cheers Walter

[Don4 10]

Ok walter, i hope tomorrow will be even better than today was for you!!

 

ps i believe sbfx has a unlimited demo all the others will expire after 30days

[Z_trade 10]

Morning Flip trade using one time frame and pretty basic objective rules.

The market have not crossed a white upper KC after retrace to the down side; the entry could be taken by using sound and visual alert for the turbo cci, warning for possible zlr type of trade. Exit for the ½ on the +100 cross to the downside and the last 1/2 – runner on the cross of -100.

 

Please notice that I’m using simple moving average for Keltner channel calculation.

[walterw 10]

Very good Z trade ¡¡ I see you are doing pretty good there, My question here : did you take the trade with the turbo crossing -100... ? because that could be considered agressive.. any way very nice trade ¡¡

 

On my case today I did not take the globex outerband pivot into consideration... but the first outerband pivot already on the trading session...

In this first trade the scalper exit was triggered to early...

 

On the other trades I notice runners havent been that happy, closing entire position on scalper exit would had been more rentable... when there is no momentum build up, runners are no good bussiness, now if you close entire position on scalper exit and you get a momentum build up you leave money on the table... so here there could be some discretionary considertaions as to the time of the day and the potential of building or not momentum... notice how today on the first hour we DID build up momentum, afterwards making scalp exits was the best... keep posting, and let the interaction continue... cheers Walter.

[Z_trade 10]

.. My question here : did you take the trade with the turbo crossing -100... ? because that could be considered agressive..

 

no, I did not get into trade by using -100 tcci cross, I just marked it on the chart for the research. This observation came from one of the help documents on the woodie website and looks like it gives the trade better chance.

 

Have a good flip trades!

[walterw 10]

no, I did not get into trade by using -100 tcci cross, I just marked it on the chart for the research. This observation came from one of the help documents on the woodie website and looks like it gives the trade better chance.

 

Have a good flip trades!

 

 

Ok, I see...

 

now YES, it deserves some research and thanks for bringing that valuable observation...because it called a very competitive entry... having an even better RRR....

 

Let say you had some noise (whipsaw) there, any way the RRR was competitive (would have very small loss)... should we observe that turbo coming from the 100 levels for entry triggers... obviously in a nice "flip" setup... cheers Walter.

[walterw 10]

Ok, I see...

 

now YES, it deserves some research and thanks for bringing that valuable observation...because it called a very competitive entry... having an even better RRR....

 

Let say you had some noise (whipsaw) there, any way the RRR was competitive (would have very small loss)... should we observe that turbo coming from the 100 levels for entry triggers... obviously in a nice "flip" setup... cheers Walter.

 

 

For example I attach some of todays flips if they where taken with the turbo -100 entry... nothing to be overpased... cheers walter.

[Don4 10]

Hey walter,How did it go today?

[walterw 10]

Hey walter,How did it go today?

 

 

Hi Don ¡¡ Today I didnt had so much like yesterday, but they where nice trades... I am making some comparissons with that turbo entry mentioned above from 100 levels against my 22T "very specific" entry...

 

so far the turbo can lead to bad situations of excesive noise coming from 100 levels...( would not recomend it) only for the zlr type entry the cross of 0 on turbo makes it easier... I am about to post my 22T charts with explanations... cheers Walter.

[walterw 10]

Ok... now I am going to post my 22Tick charts from today... I did not follow them today on real time as I was following the turbo cci on 55t, wich was a very interesting experience...

 

First a word about the turbo cci on the 55 Tick... taking a signal from the 100 levels can some times be sweet, on other times will be very noisy... exsesive noise... unwanted... and if you are looking to get very quirurgical entries, i would more recomend the 22 T "very specific" entry... it has much more precision as it is a 2.5/1 scale from 55T and the indicators I am trying do perform pretty nice... now what I do like from the turbo is when you have a zlr type entry on 55t and the turbo makes a 0 line cross making much easier to read the zlr...

 

Now let me go to my "very specific" timing on 22 T chart

 

I did some changes on my ergodic TSI inputs so I can have a more robust entry signal , from 3/3/3/2 i changed it to 5/2/3/10...

 

As we have now a heavier input on the indicator the signals will be very diferent... instead of taking level crosses like +-60 or 0... now the entry criteria will be the first inflection from an extreme after the bar closes...

 

It gives very nice signals... ideal for the scalper... who wants a good edge on quirurgical entries...

 

I must say that I am looking at the 55T chart to see the setup being developed... when the times comes (right after the pullback to level ) to time the trade then I look at the 22 Tick chart indications... cheers Walter.

[Don4 10]

Hey walter, hows the flips been going today?

[walterw 10]

Hello my dear fellow traders, today june 15 as the week is coming to the end we are having a very slow market, still flips have done their job but today it was clear that going for runners would not be a very inteligent idea... so I decided to close my entire positions on scalper exits...

 

"very specific" timining is the issue I am dealing at this point... I have to make clear that I am researching on this... on experimental stage... so I may post a lot of diferent alternatives as I am showing to the public my research process... once I get confortable with one criteria I may post that criteria over and over and over again, like its happening at this point with the flip setups... you look at the charts and they look so similar from day to day and from week to week.... well that happens when you get consistency on one criteria...

 

In terms of "flip" setup I find myself already consistent... in terms of "very specific timing" I am still looking for my best edge there... it may happen on the 55T chart or maybe on the 22 T chart... we will see... but have to asign a couple of weeks to get to the desired final product...

 

Anyway the overall flip aproach its growing and showing for himself that its a nice decent aproach that just about any average trader can aim to profit at least $60 per day on a consistent basis as discussed here http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f62/scalper-daily-target-1859.html even on the most sleepy days we have decent flips, maybe on this slow days I insist it can be more smart to exit entire position on scalper exit... now on strong days, you may consider even closing your entire position on the "super runner exit"... and make a big diference on your RRR for the entire week...

 

So far today I had 3 decent scalp trades... in terms of "very specific timing" I attach a second chart where I show using the turbo cci 6 crossing (not the -100) but the -50 for a nice competitive entry...

 

What I am thinking is this : if cci 14 during the pullback to level came below -50 then I will monitor cci 6 when he comes back above -50...

 

for example if cci 14 never came below 0, I am expecting a zlr type entry, so in that case I will monitor the turbo to cross the 0 line (see explanation graph)...

 

So I am still looking at the turbo (not anymore from 100 levels, to risky) but yes from some other more competitive levels like +-50 and 0.... cheers Walter.

 

 

 

PD: I have to make clear that at this point I give credit of my advances to all who are interacting here with their great inputs... special thanks to Don and Ztrade...

[Don4 10]

Yes, its very important to find that sweet point of feeling confortable with your aproach and at the same time having a good sound aproach.... sometimes we can feel confortable with something that really its not the best at the end of the tunel... nice to interact about this topic... its not easy but having this type of topic totally under control I believe its the holly grail.. cheers Walter.

 

Walter,alot of wisdom in your post, Its something that has been sticking in my head. As you may or may not know, I have been keeping a journal on a system that i came up with.For me it was the sweet point that you was talking about. It was something that i felt very comfortable with win or lose. At one point I was up over 20%,but the last month hadnt been very kind.As of now im still up a little. So as the drawdowns started to occur my confidence started to dwindle little by little,although i still continued to trade my system. Then you invited me to this thread, while interacting and learning your system i have learned so much but since my eyes arnt as keen as yours as finding the pattern(in real time),i tryed my best to make it as mechanical as possible and putting many hours into it. But could not find the right approach for my style. Although i will still be here learning and posting in this great thread i must get back to my system and put most of my focus there. You are truly a class act and i have much respect for you.

 

Don

[walterw 10]

Thanks Don for your kind words... I enjoyed interacting with you, hope we can still interact on this field, I know you have some diferent technicall aproach, I dont know if you posted some of your setup rules... maybe I can help you interacting on that... Since you showed me flips on forex I am more interested in trading forex maybe by 2008... from now on I will study apart from flip some other startegies for forex using mt4 (already have some nice cool ideas), maybe we can open a thread on that an start thinking in public...

 

I see you have a great actitude man, would love to keep working with you... cheers Walter.

[walterw 10]

The evening was also slow, but 3 flip trades where good for $80 per contract after comissions... I closed entire positions on scalper exit that was the key...

 

As "very specific timing" is under development, I experimented taking the turbo 0 line cross, no matter what cci 14 did before... (zlr or not)... they worked like a charm... cheers Walter.

[Don4 10]

Thanks Don for your kind words... I enjoyed interacting with you, hope we can still interact on this field, I know you have some diferent technicall aproach, I dont know if you posted some of your setup rules... maybe I can help you interacting on that... Since you showed me flips on forex I am more interested in trading forex maybe by 2008... from now on I will study apart from flip some other startegies for forex using mt4 (already have some nice cool ideas), maybe we can open a thread on that an start thinking in public...

I see you have a great actitude man, would love to keep working with you... cheers Walter.

 

1)Walter i struggled with this for a long time, I even started a thread about (sharing your system) and tried to get some opinions. Since my system is so specific about entry,stops,and take profit and could be easily automated I decided against it at the time but who knows i may reveal it in the future(Its so simple people would laugh)

 

2)Would love to!!!

[walterw 10]

Great Don ¡¡ I will soon open a thread on this new forex research using mt4... it will be fun...

 

 

Here I am going to post the 22T chart with the exact indicators used on the 55T chart.. wich happen to be : keltner exp 250 /1.6 - 4 atr and a CCI 35 (for the 14) and CCI 15 ( for the turbo 6)...

 

I marked the exact same turbo 0 line cross entry signals... and experimenting the use of the turbo crossing the -100 for the scalper exit... it has a quirurgical precision to see the same indicators on a smaller (not much smaller) time frame... cheers Walter.