New MP Software for Ninjatrader

[Reaver 10]

Awesome thanks! I'm starting to get the hang of it.

[cborjon 10]

I have a quick question about this NT addin from Final. It seems a few of you - Vegaspanda, Momentum, and now Reaver - are using it with Tradestation data. Before making the purchase I checked out the TS forums (I am new to TS) and found a EL addin TPO Pro5.0b https://www.tradestation.com/Discussions/Topic.aspx?Topic_ID=57275

 

Did any of you try out TPO Pro before the NT addin? Is this just one of those cases where "you get what you pay for" and the guy at Final has a better product that is worth paying for it?

[ticks 10]

Just a heads up --

 

This is "pirate software" not authorized by CBOT (license holder/owner of MP).

 

This means that the developer, who is a "one man shop" working out of Isreal, is taking a chance that he will not be "shut down" by the CBOT.

 

The CBOT requires a licensing fee for each user. So caution flag is out --before paying someone in Isreal for software that is risking being shut down.

[vegaspanda 10]

Yes, I have used TPO Pro in the past. IMHO its ugly and have no volume profile. other than that does the basis.

 

VP

[Reaver 10]

Just a heads up --

 

This is "pirate software" not authorized by CBOT (license holder/owner of MP).

 

This means that the developer, who is a "one man shop" working out of Isreal, is taking a chance that he will not be "shut down" by the CBOT.

 

The CBOT requires a licensing fee for each user. So caution flag is out --before paying someone in Isreal for software that is risking being shut down.

 

He isn't marketing it as Market Profile, I am curious how they could shut him down for infringement....and not to mention, he is in Israel...so I doubt that's gonna happen. It's not like he is sitting in Omaha on his pappy's farm where the cops can just drop by and shut him down.

[momentom 10]

Just a heads up --

 

This is "pirate software" not authorized by CBOT (license holder/owner of MP).

 

This means that the developer, who is a "one man shop" working out of Isreal, is taking a chance that he will not be "shut down" by the CBOT.

 

The CBOT requires a licensing fee for each user. So caution flag is out --before paying someone in Isreal for software that is risking being shut down.

 

 

There is a Volume Profile, works real great, not Market Profile but TPO - CBOT can't complain - there are a number of add-ins USA based - using the same TPO or similar description to avoid being in conflict with CBOT. Just look at Ensign. Totally disagree with your post. I'ma happy user.

[johnbain 10]

I have looked at NinjaTrader and it looks ok, but in order to get an indicator or strategy onto it that isn't included in the software, you have to

1) Pay someone to code it/buy it

2) Become a C programmer yourself and learn the methods used in NT to code what you want to see.

 

The Help tutorial is ok, but a lot of the links to the Microsoft site are broken, and since I'm not a C programmer anyway, it just makes it more confusing.

 

If they could make experimenting with your own indicators (programming) easier in it for non-programmers I think it would be a killer-app.

[momentom 10]

Have a look at the INDICATOR section in the NT forum. There is a ton of programming of indicators there that people have contributed translating from TS and esIG

[Sparrow 10]

I suppose it's the same with any other platform as well. Sometimes you only get what the vendor offers and nothing else. IMO scripting capability is a big plus, otherwise you won't be able to extend your platform.

Ninjatrader isn't as widely used as TS, that's why custom indicators are still rare. The INDICATORS section is still very thin, but will grow of course.

 

Paying for someone's work is fine, if it improves your betting average.

 

Ninjatrader is a dream compared to my broker's platform which can only be described as crap.

[MC 10]

OK so I'm running the demo and thinkin of buying this for Ninja which will be fed by Tradestation data.

 

Is anyone using this setup with good results?

 

Another question being I'm a noob at MP. I understand the POC and VAH/VAL areas. And I get the basic concept of virgin POC's.

Does anyone have any tricks or tips, I plan on reading the MP stickies later tonight.

 

Thanks

[ant 10]

MC,

 

Before forking gover $250 for an MP indicator, I recommend you read one of Dalton's books first, if you haven't done so already, to see if Market Profile suits your trading style. Many traders abandon MP because MP doesn't provide trade setups. It's a trade decision support tool. Just my 2c.

[MC 10]

MC,

 

Before forking gover $250 for an MP indicator, I recommend you read one of Dalton's books first, if you haven't done so already, to see if Market Profile suits your trading style. Many traders abandon MP because MP doesn't provide trade setups. It's a trade decision support tool. Just my 2c.

 

I appreciate the input.

 

MP really is for creating a value based set of pivots that take into account volume at the given prices if I understand it correctly. It seems to be a good visual for supply and demand, though I don't read it very well yet.

 

Is there any 1 book you would recommend?

I'm gonna read the MP section right now in fact.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[TinGull 10]

Hey Mike,

 

As Ant said, MP is really a tool for gauging the market's potential direction to place hi odds trades. While some people will use VAL and VAH and POC's for pivot area (I used to do that) it's not really what MP is all about. I would recommend reading Mind Over Markets and then Markets In Profile...then MoM again. MoM is an inexpensive book, and MiP is not, though MiP did provide me with a lot more understanding of what the profile tells us. MoM gave the nuts and bolts of MP.

 

Once MP and the auction theory really becomes a part of your trading, you'll know right away. For me, it came clear as day and I was able to implement it in my trading not by trading off of value areas, but by knowing that price is the market's advertising agency and price is always advertising itself to find takers. If price auctions down but on low volume, then there is a path of least resistance which would be UP. While it's really hard for some people to grasp in the beginning, it's really the best way to "know" the markets, IMO.

 

Keep in mind, I'm far from being an expert on this...just tell it like I see it.

[MC 10]

Hey Mike,

 

As Ant said, MP is really a tool for gauging the market's potential direction to place hi odds trades. While some people will use VAL and VAH and POC's for pivot area (I used to do that) it's not really what MP is all about. I would recommend reading Mind Over Markets and then Markets In Profile...then MoM again. MoM is an inexpensive book, and MiP is not, though MiP did provide me with a lot more understanding of what the profile tells us. MoM gave the nuts and bolts of MP.

 

Once MP and the auction theory really becomes a part of your trading, you'll know right away. For me, it came clear as day and I was able to implement it in my trading not by trading off of value areas, but by knowing that price is the market's advertising agency and price is always advertising itself to find takers. If price auctions down but on low volume, then there is a path of least resistance which would be UP. While it's really hard for some people to grasp in the beginning, it's really the best way to "know" the markets, IMO.

 

Keep in mind, I'm far from being an expert on this...just tell it like I see it.

 

 

Thanks for the input. I'll check the first book out asap.

I "know" the markets at least in basics. I know there is no whiz bang indicator and its all supply and demand. Now if only I can get a better grasp on this auction concept I'll be set.

 

On my paper trading the YM for the last 2 months my setups are about 70-80% accurate for reversals and/or scalps. I'd like that to be higher and think by understanding the markets value range and volume by price activity I may get better. The main reason I'm still on paper is I have on occasion let stops fly by and dug a hole, so I'm hesitant to move to live. Though I understand paper isn't the full blown emotions I take this very seriously and have lots of work to do.

 

Thanks again

[TinGull 10]

80% aint nothin to frown at, man. If I had something that was 80%...mmmm...I'd be all over that like white on chicken eggs. (the white ones that is)

[MC 10]

80% aint nothin to frown at, man. If I had something that was 80%...mmmm...I'd be all over that like white on chicken eggs. (the white ones that is)

 

The reason for that is I often cut my profit short, I wimp out for sure profit.

I end up wasting commision that way but for as new as I am, I'm ok with that. I hope having a range and knowing where the bulk of people bought will help me feel more secure to hold for better exits.

 

I usually do pretty well on paper but on occasion I let a loser run and that of course wipes all the scalping profits out. :crap:

 

I'm expecting perfection 3 months in, I really need to chill out and keep learning.

[TinGull 10]

Ahh, yea. Perfection is never attained...I've been at it a year almost with futures and while my analysis is always spot on, I'm always having troubles taking the trades. I got back into watching MP charts for that very reason. Give a little more confidence in how I'm seeing things.

[ant 10]

Ahh, yea. Perfection is never attained...I've been at it a year almost with futures and while my analysis is always spot on, I'm always having troubles taking the trades. I got back into watching MP charts for that very reason. Give a little more confidence in how I'm seeing things.

 

I can't overemphasize how true this is, at least in my experience. Trying to be a perfectionist in the market is actually a detriment, IMO. The markets never behave the same way twice and that's where trading experience makes a big difference. Also, looking for perfection will cause you to jump from one trading approach to the next - thinking that the grass is greener elsewhere. Find something that suits you with an edge and then stick with it. Develop expertise. For me, it's using price action and Market Profile. My goal is to become an expert Market Profile trader and I don't plan to deviate from that too much. The other key to trading is developing self-understanding. As TinGull pointed out, you'll find that you'll get to the point where you can analyze a market fairly accurately, but the key then becomes "TAKING THE TRADE" and letting the trade play out. MC, I know you've been trading on a simulator, and that's great to practice your strategy and learning to use your platform. But man, it's a totally different game when your money is on the line and your emotions have something to say.

 

By the way, make sure that the simulator you're using is realistic in the way it fills your orders, especially if you're scalping for ticks. You may not get those same fills in live trading. Also, don't put too much emphasis on your win/loss ratio, what really matters is your profit factor. What good is an 80% strategy if the other 20% wipes out all your gains and then some. Drawdowns could also be a big issue, but I'm assuming that that's not and issue here because you're scalping. But if you're going to use Market Profile, think in terms of points, not ticks.

 

I'm just a developing trader like many people here, but this is my current thinking.

[MC 10]

I can't overemphasize how true this is, at least in my experience. Trying to be a perfectionist in the market is actually a detriment, IMO. The markets never behave the same way twice and that's where trading experience makes a big difference. Also, looking for perfection will cause you to jump from one trading approach to the next - thinking that the grass is greener elsewhere. Find something that suits you with an edge and then stick with it. Develop expertise. For me, it's using price action and Market Profile. My goal is to become an expert Market Profile trader and I don't plan to deviate from that too much. The other key to trading is developing self-understanding. As TinGull pointed out, you'll find that you'll get to the point where you can analyze a market fairly accurately, but the key then becomes "TAKING THE TRADE" and letting play out. MC, I know you've been trading on a simulator, and that's great to practice your strategy and learning to use your platform. But man, it's a totally different game when your money is on the line and your emotions have something to say.

 

By the way, make sure that the simulator you're using is realistic in the way it fills your orders, especially if you're scalping for ticks. You may not get those same fills in live trading. Also, don't put too much emphasis on your win/loss ratio, what really matters is your profit factor. What good is an 80% strategy if the other 20% wipes out all your gains and then some.

 

I'm just a developing trader like many people here, but this is my current thinking.

 

Thanks again for the input.

 

I'm not a rookie to the market. Though I'm still quite new, I played stocks with real money for the first 8 months of my time in the market. I never paper traded before that because I know for a rookie paper trading is a joke.

I jumped in with both feet and...well check out my bio for the full story.

I think I have a fairly good grasp on emotions, especially considering I'm only in for 11 months. IMO people should trade live with limited $ at first to learn to check emotions and learn from losses. Only then does paper trading become beneficial to practice strategies. JMHO

 

As to the perfectionist thing...I don't mean that I think I'll peg bottoms and tops perfect or anything like that. Just that I want to improve my skills and keep progressing. I don't mind leaving some profit on the table, though I would like to get much better on my exits and not sell so early. Like you said I really need to "let the trade play out". In time I'll learn to trust the pivots and range. Personally I think MP will add a dimension to market range I'm lacking. I'm not jumping ship at all, I am comfortable with my setups and just looking for a supplement. I mainly need the added discipline that will come from screen time and experience.

 

I'm profitable on Ninja's demo. From what I've read and heard it puts you in the DOM and has fairly accurate fills. I also agree that 80% wins with tiny profit and 20% with good sized losses = disaster. That's not the case for me, though the fact that I'm profitable on paper may not mean anything, or it might mean my setups work. When I go live I guess we'll find out quickly how well Ninja works for simulated trading. :o

 

Have a good weekend

[mezameo 10]

Thanks again for the input.

 

I'm not a rookie to the market. Though I'm still quite new, I played stocks with real money for the first 8 months of my time in the market. I never paper traded before that because I know for a rookie paper trading is a joke.

I jumped in with both feet and...well check out my bio for the full story.

I think I have a fairly good grasp on emotions, especially considering I'm only in for 11 months. IMO people should trade live with limited $ at first to learn to check emotions and learn from losses. Only then does paper trading become beneficial to practice strategies. JMHO

 

As to the perfectionist thing...I don't mean that I think I'll peg bottoms and tops perfect or anything like that. Just that I want to improve my skills and keep progressing. I don't mind leaving some profit on the table, though I would like to get much better on my exits and not sell so early. Like you said I really need to "let the trade play out". In time I'll learn to trust the pivots and range. Personally I think MP will add a dimension to market range I'm lacking. I'm not jumping ship at all, I am comfortable with my setups and just looking for a supplement. I mainly need the added discipline that will come from screen time and experience.

 

I'm profitable on Ninja's demo. From what I've read and heard it puts you in the DOM and has fairly accurate fills. I also agree that 80% wins with tiny profit and 20% with good sized losses = disaster. That's not the case for me, though the fact that I'm profitable on paper may not mean anything, or it might mean my setups work. When I go live I guess we'll find out quickly how well Ninja works for simulated trading. :o

 

Have a good weekend

 

Wondering if your demo experience has translated into a similiar live experience as far as order entry on ninja trader goes? Am demoing it now using zenfire.

[MC 10]

Wondering if your demo experience has translated into a similiar live experience as far as order entry on ninja trader goes? Am demoing it now using zenfire.

 

NO, but not because the demo is flawed.

The demo is excellent actually.

 

When I went live I realized my "system" wasn't a system at all.

It wasn't mechanical and so my emotions would take control and I exited trades well before they were done moving. It was a user/system flaw.

 

I have a new system that is doing very well in it's first paper week. This one I think is mechanical enough that I will be able to trade it without too much stress. I'm going to try it live next week.

[mezameo 10]

ok, well I have been trading my system on spread betting brokers spreads for 6 months and have been profitable.

 

I realized just how much more I would be making if I stepped up to the plate and used a real broker, along with the higher margin requirements. I have demoed ninja trader with my system now for two weeks with real margin requirements and I expect it will be the same live but I just wanted to see if others had positive or negative experiences with the transistion.

 

Best of luck to you and your new more mechanical system!-

[azmike 10]

Just an FYI - A NinjaTrader indicator for "Value area" and POC has been posted here:

http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4466

 

I am still learning MP and have not yet tried this indicator...

 

-- Mike

[Sparrow 10]

Yep it's great that someone is willing to share an indicator that prints the VAL, VAH and POC for NT. A better price/volume histogram would be even cooler, but it's awesome to have this one already.

One caveat though, it's not calculated with tick volume but some sorta approximation, which might not make a huge difference, just mentioning it.

[mezameo 10]

Using 6.0 version still has quite a few bugs. Better than nothing but still not on par with the paid version refered to earlier in this thread (or even the ensign profile).