What's easier to do - consistent profits or spikes?

[brownsfan019 17]

Hopefully you guys can tell that I am really into the psychology of trading. I think it's much more important than any system you could possibly design. And I think the many threads here really highlight this if you look at what is really being asked...

 

With that being said, I have a question for everyone. I think there is a poll listed at the top of the thread.

 

The question is: What is easier to do - create consistent profits on a regular basis or create 'roller coaster' rides on your P&L?

[notouch 10]

Please clarify what you mean by 'roller coaster' rides on your P&L.

[brownsfan019 17]

Please clarify what you mean by 'roller coaster' rides on your P&L.

 

Larger swings up and down. Some days you can't believe how much you made and other days you aren't quite sure what happened.

 

In other words, is it easier to make a solid profit per day and be happy or go for larger dollars, up or down?

[weiwei 10]

Consistent profit over the long run is definally much harder to achieve in my opinion.

 

wanting a spike in your account is very easy. Position yourself before any major eco report. You will have a roller coaster ride. This Fri's Employment report can give you the chance to do that.

 

 

weiwei

[Guest cooter]

Yep, the roller coaster is quite easy. Especially intra-day. Make your daily goal or more in the morning, and give it away in the afternoon.

 

Gotta learn to quit when I'm still ahead, and enjoy the profits instead.

[brownsfan019 17]

Note - I'm curious to see the results/posts and I have a follow up question to this once there's some data.

[notouch 10]

I find multi-day swing trading much easier and more profitable than scalping 10 ticks here and there during the day. I also find looking for a 40 point intraday move in YM a lot easier and more profitable than trying to find 4 10 point profits.

 

I haven't voted because your question seems loaded in favour of the first option. I still don't really understand what your question is getting at.

[brownsfan019 17]

I find multi-day swing trading much easier and more profitable than scalping 10 ticks here and there during the day. I also find looking for a 40 point intraday move in YM a lot easier and more profitable than trying to find 4 10 point profits.

 

Interesting notouch!!

 

That flies in the face of active daytraders like myself, but it is something that I have looked at more and more actually.

 

It's very counter-intuitive actually - trade less, make more. Maybe even not trade during the regular session. That will mess with your mind! :rolleyes:

[Guest cooter]

 

wanting a spike in your account is very easy. Position yourself before any major eco report. You will have a roller coaster ride. This Fri's Employment report can give you the chance to do that.

 

 

weiwei

 

You want spikes? Excitement? An intense cardio workout?

 

Trade the 30 year bonds with SIZE when any econ report is out at 830 or 10am EST. Like placing a buy stop or sell stop a couple of ticks away from the bid/ask, with 25 or more cars.

 

If you don't blow out your account on a false stop spike just before the report, you could have a very healthy gain to show for it, plus a possible trip to the intensive care ward afterward in either case.

[brownsfan019 17]

I haven't voted because your question seems loaded in favour of the first option. I still don't really understand what your question is getting at.

 

I didn't mean to do that. I was just curious as to what active traders find easier to do (not necessarily what they would like to be doing) - either you find it easier to make solid money each day/week/etc or easier to go on some swings up/down.

 

Again, not necessarily what you would WANT to be doing.

[notouch 10]

It sound like you mean to ask is it easier to make profits by trading frequently looking for smaller profits or less frequently looking for a larger move. For me I've always found the latter much easier. Traditional candlestick analysis was never designed for scalping, nor was Market Profile or VSA. Longer term swing trading allows for more sober and less emotional trading.

[MrPaul 10]

I voted consistent:cool:

[notouch 10]

My profits are consistent but I go for longer term moves. I definitely don't like roller coaster rides on my P&L so I can't really answer the question.

[malvado xetra 10]

In my opinion. swing trading is a lot of easier and more profitable if you really understand how the market works. scalp trading o little profits per day (if you really get them every single day) it is for traders than dont understand the whole sense of markets. for that reason they pick and go away quickly: fear and no control of the situation make them insecure. so they face profits like something hard to get but, actually they may think. uau! lucky smiled to me lets go quick before this turns all up against my position.

 

I think like this because I used to be a scalper before I had a better knoledge of whats going on in the market.

 

sorry if my thinking dont like to everybody

[weiwei 10]

MX, I have seen day-trader made over 10K to 14K on a good day trading YM as a scalper on a consistent base, and I have seen him done it for over 2 years. So it is no luck, he can read market very well.

 

Basically, I disagree with your anology about scalper. Scalper can said the same thing about swing trader must bear the over night price shock. Like 2/27/2007 gap down. depends on one's position size, the draw down could be hugh, 30% -70% is not impossible. How about the limit up or down for several days.

 

The point being that every one has a style that fits him/her. Some is doing better at one style then other, that is all.

 

weiwei.

[Guest cooter]

Weiwei,

 

What type of size was day-trader scalping with? And for how many points per scalp?

[weiwei 10]

He scale in 5 at a time for up to 40 cars. most of time it is about 20 to 30 cars. He trades upto5 to 10 swing per day.

 

As far as how many points, he dose not have a set points for exit. he use MMath and order flow to see if he should stay for more or exit.

 

the reason that I know is he showed his P/L from his brokerage account to us to prove his points from time to time. and after 2 years trading with him, you know if he is for real or not.

 

weiwei.

[peterfx 10]

Hopefully you guys can tell that I am really into the psychology of trading. I think it's much more important than any system you could possibly design. And I think the many threads here really highlight this if you look at what is really being asked...

 

With that being said, I have a question for everyone. I think there is a poll listed at the top of the thread.

 

The question is: What is easier to do - create consistent profits on a regular basis or create 'roller coaster' rides on your P&L?

 

Obviously, the answer is that the most difficult thing is to create constant profits. This should be the trader's main goal, without considering the amount of money he earns (at least not in the beginning). I agree the psychology is the most important element in trading and the human nature is the reason why most of the accounts look like a "roller coaster". Try to earn just few dollars for 3-4 months in a row, and grow from there.

[khamore1 10]

If consistent gains were easier to make, do you think 95% of day traders would

Be losers?

[TheDude 10]

I find multi-day swing trading much easier and more profitable than scalping 10 ticks here and there during the day. I also find looking for a 40 point intraday move in YM a lot easier and more profitable than trying to find 4 10 point profits.

 

I haven't voted because your question seems loaded in favour of the first option. I still don't really understand what your question is getting at.

 

 

i like it. not that many have the patience to do that, with the view that there are more 10 point opportunities than 40 point ones. just goes to show, its all down to style.

 

on another point....

 

when i was a clerk before i started trading, there were 2 guys in my firm:

trader a. he had regular account swings day in day out. one day up 120k, then down 300k, then up 500k, down 200 etc.

trader b. most days he was up 2k, sometimes 5k. otherwise hed scratch, maybe lose 1k tops - that was rare.

 

trader a was the boss. hed always moan at trader b for not taking enough trades, not being aggressive enough etc.

 

guess which one survived and which one blew up.......

[SIUYA 11]

when i was a clerk before i started trading, there were 2 guys in my firm:

trader a. he had regular account swings day in day out. one day up 120k, then down 300k, then up 500k, down 200 etc.

trader b. most days he was up 2k, sometimes 5k. otherwise hed scratch, maybe lose 1k tops - that was rare.

 

trader a was the boss. hed always moan at trader b for not taking enough trades, not being aggressive enough etc.

 

guess which one survived and which one blew up.......

 

just throwing it out there for the New year cheer....

 

trader a - the boss blew up, but he went out swinging, moved on to bigger and better things, it was possibly Jon Corzine

trader b - consistently made small money, ended up being a customer of MFGlobal and now despite doing everything right (occasionally) wishes/wonders if he would do it differently

 

The broking/finance world is littered with very few traders.....but seems to have many mangers, many swingers and financial terrorists (in that they often blow up but at the time seem to be inspirational but are in fact frauds and cheats). The great advantage of using OPM - blowups often dont factor into the equation

[TheDude 10]

just throwing it out there for the New year cheer....

 

trader a - the boss blew up, but he went out swinging, moved on to bigger and better things, it was possibly Jon Corzine

trader b - consistently made small money, ended up being a customer of MFGlobal and now despite doing everything right (occasionally) wishes/wonders if he would do it differently

 

The broking/finance world is littered with very few traders.....but seems to have many mangers, many swingers and financial terrorists (in that they often blow up but at the time seem to be inspirational but are in fact frauds and cheats). The great advantage of using OPM - blowups often dont factor into the equation

 

Youre very close its scary!

 

trader a did go on to trade OPM but also developed a bad coke, drink and hookers habit. no idea where he is now.

trader b did continue trading his own money and i hear hes doing ok. hes quite conservative anyway. i imagine youre right in that he wishes he could take bigger risks

 

id say trader b is a happier and more content person even if hes unlikely to be mega wealthy - hes happy just being wealthy after all these years

[SIUYA 11]

saw it many times before.

the joke was always if you go down at least go down swinging. Some idiot will think you are a big swinger and figure they are smart enough to employ you and then stop you before you next blowup. In the meantime they are thinking - hell it's not my money and in a lot of this game you dont get paid to make money you get paid to move large amounts of it around and hope you are not found out before the musical chairs stop.

 

I think this is also one reason why many supposed successful firm traders dont do that well if they venture out on their own, and why you have to trade to who you are.

( I am more in the trader b category - hence I sometimes have the regrets, but am also completely happy with how things are and not a coke abuser. )

[NeoTrader 10]

This may be way too late, but the original poll question might as well say

 

Would you rather:

 

A: Eat a candy bar

 

B: Stick a fork in your eyeball

 

 

Maybe, a better question would be:

 

What is easier:

 

A: Steady small profits

B: Many small losses with occasional home-runs

 

[Landser 10]

For me stability is better than a sudden jackpot. The trading process based on sudden huge swings looks like gambling - you can earn a lot or you can lose all your money. That's why my choice is the profit for about 3-5% monthly.