Why Buy Trading Education?

[zupcon 10]

  OILFXPRO said:

Most of the forums are operated by internet marketeers , who destroy forums and supress free content , for their own pockets .In fact most of them operate several forums , they are operated in the interests of sponsors , yes they delete threads and ban members , manipulate content for screwing the members .Many traders have wasted their time on forums operated by scammers and full of idiots..

 

I think you are being a bit tough on forums. Some forums are worse than others. The t2w zoo is currently the best example of a group of internet marketers cynically manipulating the stupidity of the few to exploit the gulability and ignorance of the many. However, I, and many others wouldnt consider the time we spent posting there as "wasted".

 

I know traders who where once evangelical supporters of forex factory, elite trader, big mikes, this place etc, but who are now totally disgusted about how these places are operated, but even so, most still have no regrets about trying to help out others.

 

I dont think forum owners are getting things quite their own way. Check out the scale of the resources being wasted by management over at the zoo in a desperate and totally futile attempt to stay afloat as their site traffic drops to new lows. Its not easy to get the full picture, and I personally think the situation is a lot worse than it looks, but one things for sure, time's must be pretty desperate, and unless something changes soon, this particular market will have been juiced dry, at least by the forum business model. The zoo will probably be the first failure, but there's a few in the queue shortly behind them who wont last much longer.

 

 

However even in a place like the t2w zoo operating a proactive policy of dumbing down content, there's still quality historical content despite the sites current adgenda. Thankfully content editors on most forums are simply not capable of assessing the impact of most of the content thats posted. Good stuff does occassionally slip through the filters, and despite the abundance of dumbed down effluence thats actively promoted and hyped on most forums, I'd be hard pushed to identify a single forum that didnt contain something of value. Sure, you could write the combined output of decent stuff on the back of a small sheet of postage stamps, but there's decent nuggets of information that can be mined. I dont follow TL very closely, and their output has reduced substantially over the last couple of years, but Ive seen at least 2 posts that pretty much let the cat out of the bag for anyone that followed up ideas in those posts.

 

Im often asked for advice, and one of the very few things that Im usually prepared to say is "avoid forums like the plague", and whilst I stand by that advice, even I would be forced to admit that there's a wide spectrum of damage that forums cause, ranging from totally destructive, through to mostly harmless.

 

One of the big sticking points for me is the issue of LULZ ?

 

There's no better source of lulz anywhere on this plannet than t2w during their period of the sites decline, its pure comedy gold. Most people who want to trade for a living are going to fail, in the same way that most of us as children wanted to play football as a career failed to achieve those goals, and for precisely the same reasons. If you are going to fail, surely you might as well share a few laughs along the way ?

 

I think we need to accept that time's constantly change and whilst you might argue that the zoo contains a vast amount of seriously damaging content, most of its content is mostly harmless, and there's been no trading related content at all for the past 5 years. What harm can it really do accessing a source of entertainment (other than soiling one's pants laughing)

 

At a push, you might even argue that if a site such as the zoo is proactively censoring content, deleting posts that are damaging to its sponsors etc, then thats actually very useful information if you are lucky enough to witness that happening.

 

I know a couple of people who seriously considered paying mike baghdaddy for training, but changed their minds after seeing t2w deleting posts. If t2w handnt deleted the posts, theyd have gone ahead and wasted relatively large sums of money. It was only t2w's actions in covering up the truth that led these people to understake further due dilligence. I'm not just singling out t2w, I know of similar instances at forex factory, forex tsd and baby pips. So in some ways, the internet marketers running forums do provide useful information, if you know how to interpret it.

 

Even the frequency at which I post on this forum gives away information if you know how to interpret it !

[SpearPointTrader 10]

If this is true, about all the big forums, I wonder what would happen if someone were to start a completely open forum where a "Hands off" moderation policy was the MO? Say moderating only things like swearing, or blatant personal attacks and such.

 

  zupcon said:

I think you are being a bit tough on forums. Some forums are worse than others. The t2w zoo is currently the best example of a group of internet marketers cynically manipulating the stupidity of the few to exploit the gulability and ignorance of the many. However, I, and many others wouldnt consider the time we spent posting there as "wasted".

 

I know traders who where once evangelical supporters of forex factory, elite trader, big mikes, this place etc, but who are now totally disgusted about how these places are operated, but even so, most still have no regrets about trying to help out others.

 

I dont think forum owners are getting things quite their own way. Check out the scale of the resources being wasted by management over at the zoo in a desperate and totally futile attempt to stay afloat as their site traffic drops to new lows. Its not easy to get the full picture, and I personally think the situation is a lot worse than it looks, but one things for sure, time's must be pretty desperate, and unless something changes soon, this particular market will have been juiced dry, at least by the forum business model. The zoo will probably be the first failure, but there's a few in the queue shortly behind them who wont last much longer.

 

 

However even in a place like the t2w zoo operating a proactive policy of dumbing down content, there's still quality historical content despite the sites current adgenda. Thankfully content editors on most forums are simply not capable of assessing the impact of most of the content thats posted. Good stuff does occassionally slip through the filters, and despite the abundance of dumbed down effluence thats actively promoted and hyped on most forums, I'd be hard pushed to identify a single forum that didnt contain something of value. Sure, you could write the combined output of decent stuff on the back of a small sheet of postage stamps, but there's decent nuggets of information that can be mined. I dont follow TL very closely, and their output has reduced substantially over the last couple of years, but Ive seen at least 2 posts that pretty much let the cat out of the bag for anyone that followed up ideas in those posts.

 

Im often asked for advice, and one of the very few things that Im usually prepared to say is "avoid forums like the plague", and whilst I stand by that advice, even I would be forced to admit that there's a wide spectrum of damage that forums cause, ranging from totally destructive, through to mostly harmless.

 

One of the big sticking points for me is the issue of LULZ ?

 

There's no better source of lulz anywhere on this plannet than t2w during their period of the sites decline, its pure comedy gold. Most people who want to trade for a living are going to fail, in the same way that most of us as children wanted to play football as a career failed to achieve those goals, and for precisely the same reasons. If you are going to fail, surely you might as well share a few laughs along the way ?

 

I think we need to accept that time's constantly change and whilst you might argue that the zoo contains a vast amount of seriously damaging content, most of its content is mostly harmless, and there's been no trading related content at all for the past 5 years. What harm can it really do accessing a source of entertainment (other than soiling one's pants laughing)

 

At a push, you might even argue that if a site such as the zoo is proactively censoring content, deleting posts that are damaging to its sponsors etc, then thats actually very useful information if you are lucky enough to witness that happening.

 

I know a couple of people who seriously considered paying mike baghdaddy for training, but changed their minds after seeing t2w deleting posts. If t2w handnt deleted the posts, theyd have gone ahead and wasted relatively large sums of money. It was only t2w's actions in covering up the truth that led these people to understake further due dilligence. I'm not just singling out t2w, I know of similar instances at forex factory, forex tsd and baby pips. So in some ways, the internet marketers running forums do provide useful information, if you know how to interpret it.

 

Even the frequency at which I post on this forum gives away information if you know how to interpret it !

[Guest OILFXPRO]

  SpearPointTrader said:

If this is true, about all the big forums, I wonder what would happen if someone were to start a completely open forum where a "Hands off" moderation policy was the MO? Say moderating only things like swearing, or blatant personal attacks and such.

 

You would get more traders participating in qualitative discussions , because threads would not be polluted with biased and false information of vendors , sponsors , scammers , prop shop frauds etc etc etc.

 

There would be more visitors looking for quality stuff and analysis.More traders would post more free stuff for others to benefit and you would get more free loaders.The site traffic would increase , t2w get it by advertising their site on google , hoping for someone to fall into their trap , then they make their money.

 

On E T there are a bunch of scammers trying to sell education , trend trading course and team of rebuttal posters employed by the forum .......to aid the interests of sponsors.Not a nice place for good traders to learn for free , but pay to learn from forum failures.You get attacked by PMS , if you give away quality stuff , the stuff the scammers want to sell or trick you into buying.Eventually traders will dissapear from these places.

 

I come to this site because you have a great poster Rande Howell and I learnt a lot of good things from him .Infact I have learnt more about phsyhology from phsychologists like Andrew Menaker and Mark Douglas , really brilliant writers and phsychologist .They did not want me to post a link to Andrew Menaker's site or video on Elite trader , whose stuff is brilliant , they did not want me to post the best intraday set ups on E T.Moderators send you pms threatening you.

 

 

Which pro wants wants to waste time on these sites ?

[tradingwizzard 10]

  OILFXPRO said:

You would get more traders participating in qualitative discussions , because threads would not be polluted with biased and false information of vendors , sponsors , scammers , prop shop frauds etc etc etc.

 

There would be more visitors looking for quality stuff and analysis.More traders would post more free stuff for others to benefit and you would get more free loaders.The site traffic would increase , t2w get it by advertising their site on google , hoping for someone to fall into their trap , then they make their money.

 

On E T there are a bunch of scammers trying to sell education , trend trading course and team of rebuttal posters employed by the forum .......to aid the interests of sponsors.Not a nice place for good traders to learn for free , but pay to learn from forum failures.You get attacked by PMS , if you give away quality stuff , the stuff the scammers want to sell or trick you into buying.Eventually traders will dissapear from these places.

 

I come to this site because you have a great poster Rande Howell and I learnt a lot of good things from him .Infact I have learnt more about phsyhology from phsychologists like Andrew Menaker and Mark Douglas , really brilliant writers and phsychologist .They did not want me to post a link to Andrew Menaker's site or video on Elite trader , whose stuff is brilliant , they did not want me to post the best intraday set ups on E T.Moderators send you pms threatening you.

 

 

Which pro wants wants to waste time on these sites ?

 

I don't thing you're fair and I am telling you why. We only ban/moderate advertising as it is not fair for anyone to come and post links to this and that just like that....if you have something to share that you learned from somewhere else, you can simply open a thread and post there using your own words and not copy/paste from others and putting links for advertising purposes....

 

just saying so to be clear...

 

TW

[zupcon 10]

  SpearPointTrader said:

If this is true, about all the big forums, I wonder what would happen if someone were to start a completely open forum where a "Hands off" moderation policy was the MO? Say moderating only things like swearing, or blatant personal attacks and such.

 

The moderation policy isnt really an issue. I doubt many of these forums even have an official moderation policy, unpaid moderators are basically told to enforce site guidelines, and then allowed to do whatever they want, and by and large that works most of the time.

 

The real issue is that any successful forum will generally require someone to pay for it, and thats possibly going to cause a conflict of interest. If you are a forum owner paying for running costs from advertising revenue paid by FXLULZ, promoting FXLULZ as a preferred broker (and earning rebates on every trade made by the muppets you reffered) and awarding FXLULZ various meaningless acolades and awards to FXLULZ, promoting them as a "shining beacon" what do you do when someone posts and points out that FXLULZ is being investigated by regulatory authoraties ? or that FXLULZ has been found guilty of various misdemeanours

 

Can you really allow someone to tell the truth about FXLULZ ?

 

The most hypocritical of forums is undoubtadly the t2w zoo, but even they are honest and open enough to admit that they have banned members simply because those members make posts that are detrimental to the sites commercial interests, and that those posts cost them money. I'm not talking about someone posting a rumour, or an opinion, I'm talking about posts that refer directly to official communication by regulatory authoraties, warnings of fraudulant and illegal activities issued by FSA, NFA, CTFC etc. Those posts are being deleted simply because the company committing that fraud are an advertiser, and the forum itself (or teh office junior) is complicit in promoting that fraud to its membership for financial gain.

 

Sites such as t2w promoting a series of illegal investment schemes to its membership on the basis that "teh office junior" isnt capable of typing a company name into Google or undertaking the most basic of due dilligence into their clients really is at the thin end of the wedge, they are saints in comparision to many.

 

Even an independant small forum might think twice about allowing negative posts on reciept of solicitors letters from FXLULZ threatening legal action.

 

And what would you do for example if you found that a member of your staff, or a moderator, or site advisor was running an illegal investment scheme which had been actively promoted on your site, and those individuals where now under investigation by law enforcement. Would you really allow free and open discussion, or would you moderate 24/7 and ensure a very tight lid remained on the story.

 

Moderation is a necessary evil, and so is censorship really. If I ran a forum paid for from my own labours, I'd get a bit annoyed watching FXLULZ's customer representatives using my resources to sell their snake oil 24/7. Id have 2 options, spend time and resources stopping them (and FXLULZ has a very big marketing department and a whole army of muppets posting on their behalf, so totally removing their effluence isnt going to be easy) OR I accept payment, at which point I'm as guilty as they are, and Ive just taken my first step on the slippery slope.

 

We are operating in a fundementally dirty and corupt business, and what happens with respect to forums is just a direct consequence of that.

[MilaRose 10]

To avoid the mistake while doing in Forex trading business. By understanding the Trading Education the new trader peoples can avoid the mistakes doing the trade markets.

[fxeconomist 11]

I don't recommend to spend any money to anything indirectly related to forex. It is waste of money and in most cases is scam.

[Patuca 13]

  SpearPointTrader said:

One point in the ES (S&P 500 E-Mini) is $12.50. The automated trading system we run our managed futures program with makes maybe 15 to 16 trades a month, and has gains that often around $400.00 (32 points) So if you calculate that out over a year, that is 72K profits in a year. Sounds real nice right?

 

really? 1 pt 12.50? 32 pts 400.00?

[Tradelikespock 10]

Most of them teach you a trading system/strategy which is only 10% of the puzzle but that's what is all over pop media. My uncle paid $20,000 for a seminar lol and he still can't be consistently profitable. He's pretty good with reading charts and being able to pick which ones will go up or down.

[tradelab 10]

I think trading education is of otmost importance while trading.So to buy trading education will be quite significant.

In any type of trading we generally look for profits and to gain profit we should go to any level of learning for which we need trading education.

So in my opinion it's very imporant that we focus in trading education

Cheers

[Guest OILFXPRO]

  tradelab said:

I think trading education is of otmost importance while trading.So to buy trading education will be quite significant.

In any type of trading we generally look for profits and to gain profit we should go to any level of learning for which we need trading education.

So in my opinion it's very imporant that we focus in trading education

Cheers

 

Trading is a mental game , it is all played in the mind..Knowing is one thing but doing is another ..............................these are the famous words of a trading educator , he could not do it in real time ......................He was consistently losing 30 pips a week ......when the system gave him a 70 pips a week profit.

 

It is important we focus psychology.

[sergso 10]

Yes, it is psychology combined with math, a difficult match.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

  sergso said:

Yes, it is psychology combined with math, a difficult match.

 

psychology and maths combined is good ,and knowing psychology is good . but applying psychology and psychological techniques for improvement is not easy.It is not easy to rewire brains ie beliefs , systems and techniques , unless the the wiring is permanent and takes place at a young age.

[ankita 10]

Education is the very basic thing my mate. How can you gain more money without having any basic knowledge?? You should have some good skills about market research and for that you should have trading education for sure.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

  ankita said:

Education is the very basic thing my mate. How can you gain more money without having any basic knowledge?? You should have some good skills about market research and for that you should have trading education for sure.

 

with all the skills , why are there so many gold rush merchants in the trading gold rush?

[JohnyIve 0]

  On 12/14/2013 at 9:07 AM, Guest OILFXPRO said:

There is a lot of free educational sites , with clean clear content on trading related information.Just go to you tube and there are thousands of educational videoes , there are hundreds of free systems and methods on the internet search engines.

 

Why should you buy same or other trading education?

There is no FREE educations. If you want no learn smth you have to pay for it. It's some kind of equivalent

[zdo 20]

  On 4/1/2018 at 8:28 PM, JohnyIve said:

There is no FREE educations. If you want no learn smth you have to pay for it. It's some kind of equivalent

Thanks for the text.  We would appreciate a post. 

Here’s a sample (of size, not quality ).

By the time you are ‘mature’ (maturity can come at any age) enough to trade, you have typically completed standardized ‘education’ and should drop the model asap.  In other words, conventional education model will not be effective for learning in trading and seeking a general education in trading, whether curriculum based or not,  is a waste of time and of whatever costs are incurred.  Instead, anyone ready for trading should also be ready for SELF education. Basically , to really thrive as a trader, I blve you  move beyond the currently failing ‘educational’ paradigm founded on the premise that humans can only make sense of the world via  communication with each other.

On the objective knowledge front that means seeking out only the specific information about instruments, data, exchanges, transactions, orders, etc etc you personally need to fill gaps in your understanding.   The  beginning trader typically only has about 3 really (seemingly) ‘stupid‘ questions.  Ask them.  Get it over with.  The rest of things are easy to access and learn.  You don’t need no fkn ‘education’ in it.

On the ‘sychological’ front, that means studying the opportunities and limitations of your own neurological and temperamental tendencies,  your sympathetic and parasympathetic balance and tendencies, your own limbic system, and the degrees to which you are susceptible to each trading ‘bias’ (see Daniel Kahneman, etc.)...,  your desires and what you do with them, etc. etc.  It takes deep self-study.  Reading about, taking courses, or even getting degrees in psychology won’t help you a fkn bit.  

On the methods front, that means getting in the cockpit and getting real experience with real money so you will actually learn what methods best suit your true nature.  Do that before any outside training.  Once you have almost mastered your method then you will also know what exactly what you need to work on.  Get sufficient experience in your own best method(s), then seek an expert in that method for further increases in leverage.   

With trading educators there is no transference of ability or capacity.  As I’ve said many times now, a teacher can never really teach you his method because there is simply too much differences between your perceptual maps and cognitive processes and his.  He will be unconsciously competent at things that he will never be able to ‘share’ with you, etc etc.   Wycoff could not teach you wycoff, etc.  Their  students can certainly not teach you wycoff, elliot, whoever. etc.   Trust serendipity / synchronicity -"when the student is ready, the teacher will appear".  ‘Education’ becomes a useless relic. 

The ‘voice of trading’ IS trading education that says you need to move more and more into just running scripts instead of ‘playing’ at trading ‘creatively’ .    If you think you’re the special exception that can pull off changing yourself to match up with a ‘system’, which likely you do if you’re reading this, go for it - odds be damned.  Fail forward as fast as you can.  Maybe then you’ll realize you need to get beyond ‘education’. Maybe it will dawn on you that the ‘voice of trading’ has vast areas that nothing is allowed to be spoken about.  But, YOU need not to wait until old ‘voice of trading’ deteriorates completely and new media, etc. emerges.  

Sorry I don’t have time to be queer this up or make it gender indeterminate for our precious ‘student’ snowflakes... or to be very respectful.

 Bluntly -  if you have to be ‘educated’, you’re not ready to trade.

[Derrick Owen 0]

You don't need to spend some money to learn especially in Forex, for almost the platforms available nowadays caters online educational materials in which you can use in order to gain knowledge in whatever you need to do.

[Donald 5]

I agree with zdo, if you need to be educated you're not ready to trade. But after all, the education is mostly for beginners who are not ready anyway. I buy education as well, just because I like to have everything in one place and most importantly from a reliable source. Youtube nowadays is just full of opinions, but no real easy to follow guides, or some good tests for example that I like. A well educated person will always be one step ahead in my opinion.

Now other thing to mention by the way. You also pay for your time when buying education. Searching the internet for hours is just a pain. You lose time, and you can also get a misconception about trading, which will then again lose more time for you, and could even lose you money.

Let me know what you think about my opinion.

[Ulino 1]

I don't think you need to buy expensive books and courses to understand anything. You can study and gather knowledge about anything in this age of internet. It is just a misconception brought into the mind of people that it costs only money to be successful.

[Donald 5]

I see what you mean, but you actually do need money to start off of anything, and you need even more money to be considered as successful.
I am not against webfinds, but a good lecture can surely only help. At least I have been purchasing educational material myself and trading is not the first on this list. That's why I say it's worth it.

[Jason Solomon 5]

The idea of cutting your learning time many hours is valuable for me. I like saving time so I can spend it with family, relaxing, etc. Also like learning from less source and not seeking among hundreds of answers but using a reliable source. Maybe one doesn't have to invent every rule on his/her own but use the knowledge of others. I mean maybe you are not da Vinci, but you can still make a living by doing what he does.

[zupcon 10]

  On 6/26/2018 at 7:56 AM, Jason Solomon said:

The idea of cutting your learning time many hours is valuable for me. I like saving time so I can spend it with family, relaxing, etc. Also like learning from less source and not seeking among hundreds of answers but using a reliable source. Maybe one doesn't have to invent every rule on his/her own but use the knowledge of others. I mean maybe you are not da Vinci, but you can still make a living by doing what he does.

The problem is there are NO reliable sources. I could probably teach most people to trade, but I wont because its not in my interests to do so, how much could I charge ? and how many students could I handle simultaneously ? Its just not a scalable business proposition compared to trading, and frankly, most people arent remotely interested in trading, they just want to make money.

The other issue is you cant take "knowledge" from multiple sources and combine it. Trading systems are highly synergistic, and in order that they function, each and every element within that system needs to be somewhere near in harmony with every other element. You cant mix and match random approaches and ideas and expect things to work out.

There's no shortage of evidence that shows that most people cant even profit from trading positive expectancy simulations that are deliberately set up to return a profit. The learning time has very little to do with learning a system, its required to experience and manage the reality of handling almost random returns, and sadly that takes time however you decide to approach it 

[Donald 5]

I hear what you are saying, but still you need to take that knowledge, and you need to know about different methods and ideas in order to be able to pick and use any.
And to get to this point you need to be educated in some ways. Whatever source that is. On the other hand, what do you think of the funding offers from these educational sites? 

[divyanshisharma 2]

You can't buy education of trading instead you find the right person who actual do trading and stay under  him/her and learn as much as you can.