Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

jpennybags

Trading for All?

Recommended Posts

How would it would it work if we (USA) were to set up a training program that would teach people to trade? Given the jobs programs that are available and the costs. Give them 5K... let em go (after training). Would folks make the most of it? What would be the percentage that would make it after a year? (their losses (or profits) getting eaten by you and me) Odd question... I know. Could anyone be able to receive training that would allow them to scalp for small profits... supplement their income... nothing else... or something much more? No going large...

 

Really odd question...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it would be a lot more lucrative just to let them get drunk, fly them to a casino, and let them gamble with the $5K - I honestly believe their odds of making any real money would be a lot higher than with trading as rookies that under cap'd with a tiny account and trying to compete with the algo super-puters and hedge funds.

 

If they were holding for long term of at least say about 60 days the odds start to go a lot higher they may prosper.

 

Aloha,

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  jpennybags said:
How would it would it work if we (USA) were to set up a training program that would teach people to trade? Given the jobs programs that are available and the costs. Give them 5K... let em go (after training). Would folks make the most of it? What would be the percentage that would make it after a year? (their losses (or profits) getting eaten by you and me) Odd question... I know. Could anyone be able to receive training that would allow them to scalp for small profits... supplement their income... nothing else... or something much more? No going large...

 

Really odd question...

 

We have already done a version of this. A lot of these traders live near me. We didn't give them $5,000 directly; instead, we gave their firms, collectively, something to the tune of $800,000,000,000. We called it TARP. Each employee of these firms received as much as an average of $2,800,000 each if you include the mailroom clerks.

 

They didn't use the money to trade; in fact, they used it to pay back the high interest portion of their TARP loans so that they can be free to pay themselves bonuses with the rest of the money. These bonuses allowed them to continue to live near me. I think the money has taught them to have a sense of entitlement. I don't think a sense of entitlement is a good trait for a trader to have.

 

Overall, it was a bad idea. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" Would folks make the most of it? What would be the percentage that would make it after a year?"

 

My guess is the % would be the same anyways.

no need for the govt to give people money to trade. They are already happy to throw it away in the market themselves.....all such a system would do is be another subsidy for the brokerage firms.

plus there is no real infrastructure or skills build and its most likely going to end in the pockets of a few anyways....may as well give everyone simulators, let them trade and the few winners get to keep 50% of the overall pool, the govt saves 50% of their original budget, and saves on brokerage.

 

what you are assuming is a couple of things....

one - trading can be taught to just anyone

two - $5k is enough to not be undercapitalised

three - there is a prescribed method for teaching and strategy that works that can be universally applied to everyone

 

it would make for good headlines.....'government training to encourage speculation'....isn't that how many people lost jobs in the first place? :doh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have people ask me all the time if I can teach them how to trade. I usually shirk the question, by laughing and saying… "You couldn't afford me"… I then go on to gently explain that I would have no way to be compensated for the money I would be missing out on. I can't believe that people ask… seems more appropriate to ask how you got started…

 

Recently though, a family member asked… I said "no" straight away. Being as it was family it got me to thinking about it. She is a teacher, and has the summer months off. She just wants to make enough to supplement her income during the time that she has off… no interest in making a living.

 

I could teach her to trade one simple set up. Get the trading platform set up with attached orders and an automated "move to break even" designed to scalp 10 ticks. I could have her averaging $150 per day on 3 contracts in no time. I think the rub is going to be getting her to sit on her hands and wait for a single setup… maybe restrict her to just a few hours per day. Start out in simulation until she gets it.

 

I'm going to have to think about it more, but I think it's possible to get it done in the evenings, maybe 6 sessions (though I could spend more time… it's family). Maybe I'll start a thread about the experience this summer.

 

The notion of training "all" to trade floated out of this. Of course it's absurd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  jpennybags said:
How would it would it work if we (USA) were to set up a training program that would teach people to trade? Given the jobs programs that are available and the costs. Give them 5K... let em go (after training). Would folks make the most of it? What would be the percentage that would make it after a year? (their losses (or profits) getting eaten by you and me) Odd question... I know. Could anyone be able to receive training that would allow them to scalp for small profits... supplement their income... nothing else... or something much more? No going large...

 

Really odd question...

 

some time ago I read the "Market Wizzards" written by Schwagger, and at some chapter (I don't remember being in the first edition of the second one), one of the people that has been interviewed said that regardless the effort (time and money) he put it, human nature prevailed and none (or maybe 1 if I remember correctly) managed to be sucsessful in the long run..........

 

if I am mistaken and somebody knows better please intervene

 

TW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  tradingwizzard said:
some time ago I read the "Market Wizzards" written by Schwagger, and at some chapter (I don't remember being in the first edition of the second one), one of the people that has been interviewed said that regardless the effort (time and money) he put it, human nature prevailed and none (or maybe 1 if I remember correctly) managed to be sucsessful in the long run..........

 

if I am mistaken and somebody knows better please intervene

 

TW

 

I know... that's what is eating at me. Love my family... do I really want to go down this road. LOL... maybe I'll just put her on the payroll and have her run errands for me... mow the freakin lawn... here's the grocery list. Dunno!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  jpennybags said:

 

I'm going to have to think about it more, but I think it's possible to get it done in the evenings, maybe 6 sessions (though I could spend more time… it's family). Maybe I'll start a thread about the experience this summer.

 

That would actually be pretty interesting, I reckon. Does she have any idea at all about trading or what you do, or would she be a complete, start from the first step novice?

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You say she is a family member so I guess you know her pretty well. Then you say a scalping method is that because you think it would be easy to teach or because it would suit her the best. Whatever she learns, it has to suit her personality....I don't think you'd have her do your errands for you, you need someone to talk to - remember ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JP - when ever someone asks me about earning 'supplemental income' I give them a list of books to read.....market wizards, reminiscences of a stock operator...blah blah.

A few simple enjoyable ones.....

then I say when you have read those come back to me and if you are still interested I will help you.

 

The number of people who have asked that question, read those books and come back and asked questions - 1 out of about 20 who have asked.

That one person has gone on to develop his own style (more long term swing and trend following) and is making a full time living from it, and I never really needed to do much more than push him in the right direction.

 

So rather than duck the question....test their commitment first. (Then do what Mits suggests...SIM trading to most likely humble them) :))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies. I'm already off the hook because my answer was "no". This is just bad... can't believe I even entertained the idea. I think I'm done with it though.

 

If she wants to do this, I need to treat this as if she were an actual student, and teach her to trade. Where would we be after a couple of months... who knows. I don't really want to devote that much time to what may turn into a lost cause. I would have to methodically sit down go through all the decisions I make during the day and figure out how to explain it all. I'd probably mess myself up... geez... then my account would be leaking.

 

I do believe my answer has changed from "no" to "Oh, hell no". Love you... get a part time job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 1st April 2025.   Will Gold’s Rally Hold Strong as New Trade Tariffs Take Effect Tomorrow?   Gold continues to increase in value for a sixth consecutive day and is trading more than 17% higher in 2025. Amid fear of higher inflation, a recession and the tariffs war escalating investors continue to invest into Gold pushing demand higher. The trade policy from April 2nd onwards continues to be a key factor for the whole market. Can Gold maintain its upward trend? Trade Policy From Tomorrow Onwards Starting as soon as tomorrow, a 25% tariff will be imposed on all passenger cars imported into the United States. While this White House policy is anticipated to negatively affect European industrial performance, it will also lead to higher transportation and maintenance costs for everyday American taxpayers. The negative impact expected on both the EU and US is one of the reasons investors continue to buy Gold. Additionally, last month, President Donald Trump announced reciprocal sanctions against any trade partners that impose import restrictions on US goods. Furthermore, tariffs on products from Canada and the EU could increase even more if they attempt to coordinate a response. Overall, investors continue to worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures, particularly from China, the Eurozone, and Japan. Any retaliation is likely to escalate the trade conflict and prompt another reaction from the US. Experts at Goldman Sachs and other investment banks warn that this will lead to rising inflation and unemployment. They also caution that it could effectively halt economic growth in the US.   XAUUSD 1-Hour Chart   The Weakness In The US Dollar Another factor which is allowing the price of XAUUSD to increase in value is the US Dollar which has been unable to maintain any bullish momentum. Despite last week’s Core PCE Price Index rising to its highest level since February 2024, the US Dollar has been unable to see any significant rise in value. Due to the US Dollar and Gold's inverse correlation, the price of Gold is benefiting from the Dollar weakness. Investors worry that new trade barriers will prompt retaliatory measures from China, the Eurozone, and Japan, potentially escalating the conflict. Experts at The Goldman Sachs Group Inc. believe that such actions by the US administration will drive rising inflation and unemployment while effectively halting economic growth in the country. Can Gold Maintain Momentum? When it comes to technical analysis, the price of Gold is not trading at a price where oscillators are indicating the instrument is overbought. The Relative Strength Index currently trades at 68.88, outside of the overbought area, since Gold’s price fell 0.65% during this morning’s session. However, even with this decline, the price still remains 0.40% higher than the day’s open price. In terms of fundamental analysis, there continues to be plenty of factors indicating the price could continue to rise. However, the price movement of the week will also partially depend on the employment data from the US. The US is due to release the JOLTS Job Vacancies for February this afternoon, the ADP Non-Farm Employment Change tomorrow, and the NFP Change and Unemployment Rate on Friday. If all data reads higher than expectations, investors may look to sell to lock in profits at the high price. Key Takeaway Points: Gold’s Rally Continues – Up 17% in 2025 as investors seek safety from inflation, recession fears, and trade tensions. Trade War Impact – New US tariffs and potential retaliation from China, the EU, and Japan drive uncertainty, boosting Gold demand. Weak US Dollar – The Dollar’s struggle supports Gold’s rise due to their inverse correlation. Gold’s Outlook – Uptrend may continue, but US jobs data could trigger profit-taking. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 31st March 2025.   Trump Confirms Tariffs on All Countries, Sending Stocks Lower.   The NASDAQ continues to trade lower due to the US confirming the latest tariffs will be on all countries. In addition to this, bearish volatility also is largely due to the higher inflation data from Friday. The NASDAQ declines to its lowest price since September 11th 2024. Core PCE Price Index - Inflation Increases Again! The PCE Price Index read 2.5% aligning with expert forecasts not triggering any alarm bells. However, the Core PCE Price Index rose from 0.3% to 0.4% MoM and from 2.7% to 2.8% YoY, signalling growing inflationary pressure. This increases the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will maintain elevated interest rates for an extended period. The NASDAQ fell 2.60% due to the higher inflation reading which is known to pressure the stock market due to pressure on consumer demand and a more hawkish Federal Reserve. Boston Fed President Susan Collins recently commented that tariffs could drive up inflation, though the long-term impact remains uncertain. She told journalists that a short-term spike is the most probable outcome but believes the current pause in monetary policy adjustments is appropriate given the prevailing uncertainties. Although, certain investment banks such as JP Morgan actually believe the Federal Reserve will be forced into cutting rates. This is due to expectations that the economy will struggle under the new trade policy. For example, JP Morgan expects the Federal Reserve to delay rate cuts but will quickly cut towards the end of 2025. Market Risk Appetite Takes a Hit! A big factor for the day is the drop in the risk appetite of investors. This can be seen from the VIX which is up almost 6%, Gold which is trading 1.30% higher and the Japanese Yen which is the day’s best performing currency. Most safe haven assets, bar the US Dollar, increase in value. It is also worth noting that all indices are decreasing in value during this morning's Asian session with the Nikkei225 and NASDAQ witnessing the strongest decline. Previously the stock market rose in value as investors heard rumours that tariffs would only be on certain countries. This bullish swing occurred between March 14th and 25th. Over the weekend, President Donald Trump indicated that the upcoming tariffs would apply to all countries, not just those with the largest trade imbalances with the US. NASDAQ - Technical Analysis In terms of technical analysis, the NASDAQ continues to obtain indications that sellers control the price action. The price opens on a bearish price gap measuring 0.30% and trades below all Moving Averages on all timeframes. The NASDAQ also trades below the VWAP and almost 100% of the most influential components (stocks) are declining in value.     The next significant support level is at $18,313, and the resistance level stands at $20,367.95. Key Takeaway Points: NASDAQ falls to its lowest since September 2024 as the US confirms tariffs on all countries, adding to inflation concerns. Core PCE inflation rises to 0.4% MoM and 2.8% YoY, increasing the likelihood of prolonged high interest rates. Investor risk appetite drops as VIX jumps 6%, gold gains 1.3%, and safe-haven assets outperform. NASDAQ shows strong bearish momentum, trading below key technical levels with support at $18,313 and resistance at $20,367.95. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • PM Philip Morris stock, top of range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?PM
    • EXC Exelon stock, nice range breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?EXC
    • UTZ Utz Brands stock, watch for a bottom breakout at https://stockconsultant.com/?UTZ
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.