Volume Based Charts Request for HELP

[Guest cooter]

Here's another very important reason for my concern in case the entire picture is not clear (and for future readers of this thread):

 

When just ONE candle is off due to a charting error in how the VBC is handled, everything else you may use is now off - whether that be moving averages, indicators, other candles that then show up, etc.

 

For example - in looking at a TS chart side-by-side to a Multi chart, I was getting VERY different signals and setups throughout the ENTIRE day. It's amazing how just one little difference can alter the appearance of your chart dramatically.

 

EVERYTHING is off as soon as ONE candle is not correct. If you think trading is hard, try doing it with a chart that isn't being displayed the way you thought it was...

 

If that's your concern, you really ought to give Ensign a second look. They've been there, done that on the Volume-Based charting issues, so hopefully they'll have mitigated your concerns already.

[bh_trade 10]

Little stuff, like accurate charting, I suppose. So what exactly are you using TS for, may I ask?

 

Um, I use TS to actually trade futures for a living, not to worry about the relatively minor semantics of volume bar shortcomings. And yes, I have traded using volume bars, but I mainly use tick bars with Tick Delta as my volume indicator. Regardless, a price chart is a price chart.

[brownsfan019 17]

Um, I use TS to actually trade futures for a living, not to worry about the relatively minor semantics of volume bar shortcomings. And yes, I have traded using volume bars, but I mainly use tick bars with Tick Delta as my volume indicator. Regardless, a price chart is a price chart.

 

bh - the 'shortcomings' you refer to are specific to TS. If you are using tick bars then this does look like a small thing. It'd be the same if you said your 233 tick chart is actually displaying 233-500 ticks each bar and you have no idea whether it will be 233 or up to 500 each bar. Would that impact your decision making? Could that possibly create scenarios where your setups either do not appear, appear to late, or appear when they should not?

 

If so, that's the issue at hand here. Just b/c you do not use them does not mean this is a non-issue. It's a non-issue to you and you are attempting to discredit the importance of this simply b/c you don't 'get it'. Like I said, if your tick bars were off by as much as 30%, you'd probably care then.

[momentom 10]

Browns, TS uses the volume from entire trades. If you are charting, say, 500V bars and the bar is up to 499, and the next trade is 127 contracts, you will get a 626V bar. They don't split trades.

 

If you want Easylanguage compatability and EXACT volume bars and don't mind a work in progress, have a look at MultiChats (Trading and Charting Software for FOREX, Stock, Future and Option Markets) . They are great people behind it. MC has some issues so I'd suggest you read their forum but you can port all your TS stuff over easily, take a 30day free trial and run it off your TradeStation data feed. MC supports about 10 other data feeds.

 

I use it, eSignal and TS and prefer MC. Still trying to wean myself of the other two.

[Guest cooter]

bh - the 'shortcomings' you refer to are specific to TS. If you are using tick bars then this does look like a small thing. It'd be the same if you said your 233 tick chart is actually displaying 233-500 ticks each bar and you have no idea whether it will be 233 or up to 500 each bar. Would that impact your decision making? Could that possibly create scenarios where your setups either do not appear, appear to late, or appear when they should not?

 

If so, that's the issue at hand here. Just b/c you do not use them does not mean this is a non-issue. It's a non-issue to you and you are attempting to discredit the importance of this simply b/c you don't 'get it'. Like I said, if your tick bars were off by as much as 30%, you'd probably care then.

 

Very well, put, Brownsfan019.

 

Did you get a chance to look at Ensign yet?

[walterw 10]

Brown : your issue is very serious and has to be dwelt professionaly... TS doesnt have the apropiate volume information (period).... from My experience esignal would be the best alternative in that aspect and in terms of service... hope you can migrate nice and smooth to the right change.... cheers Walter.

[notouch 10]

Brownfan, how much do you really need EasyLanguage? Do you program your own unique indicators with it? If not I would choose Ensign over MultiCharts. There's so much functionality within Ensign that unless you really do have some unique indicators, you probably won't need to do any coding. Volume based charting is really Ensign's niche and they have some features not found elsewhere. Having tried out the various options I would say Ensign is the best charting program and eSignal is the best data provider. I found MultiCharts buggy and Investor/RT was the worst piece of software ever (on a Windows PC - I understand it was designed for the mac).

 

Best idea would be to get a free trial of eSignal Premier and also a free trial of Ensign and MultiCharts then you can test them all out on eSignal data for free.

[bh_trade 10]

bh - the 'shortcomings' you refer to are specific to TS. If you are using tick bars then this does look like a small thing. It'd be the same if you said your 233 tick chart is actually displaying 233-500 ticks each bar and you have no idea whether it will be 233 or up to 500 each bar. Would that impact your decision making? Could that possibly create scenarios where your setups either do not appear, appear to late, or appear when they should not?

 

If so, that's the issue at hand here. Just b/c you do not use them does not mean this is a non-issue. It's a non-issue to you and you are attempting to discredit the importance of this simply b/c you don't 'get it'. Like I said, if your tick bars were off by as much as 30%, you'd probably care then.

 

No, I understand what you guys are saying about the volume bars. And I also said I *have* used and traded from volume bars. My main trading vehicle is ER2 so the volume bar differentials are very minor. I suppose if you are charting equities which can have wider per tick volume differential then I can see where your larger 20% error factor comes in. Now I guess what I dont "get" is how or why a 500 volume bar vs a 600 volume bar is such a big deal when making your trading decisions. I mean price is what it is - right?

[brownsfan019 17]

Great ideas guys, thank you.

 

I am testing Multi now and will take a look at some of the others as well. Multi came recommended from a few others using volume based charts. One nice thing I like about Multi is that you can buy it outright and then just pay for data. Not too bad in my opinion if you decide that software is for you. I'll have to read into how that works more, but never had that option with TS or ESignal.

[brownsfan019 17]

No, I understand what you guys are saying about the volume bars. And I also said I *have* used and traded from volume bars. My main trading vehicle is ER2 so the volume bar differentials are very minor. I suppose if you are charting equities which can have wider per tick volume differential then I can see where your larger 20% error factor comes in. Now I guess what I dont "get" is how or why a 500 volume bar vs a 600 volume bar is such a big deal when making your trading decisions. I mean price is what it is - right?

 

bh - the problem with 'randomly' based VBC charts is simple - I have no idea if my setup is legit or not when taking a trade. Again, as stated above, as soon as ONE candle is off, everything after that is off.

 

Since I use candlestick analysis, having candles that aren't even true is completely misleading. Having a hammer on a true VBC chart is much different than a completely random TS chart.

 

I can see at face value how a difference of 500 vs 600 does not seem like much, but you have to remember that EACH candle is COMPLETELY different in terms of how much volume is actually represented there. I mean, I have NO idea if the next candle will have 500, 600 or 700 contracts represented. With that info, plus knowing that my candlesticks are completely inaccurate, does that make sense?

[bh_trade 10]

bh - the problem with 'randomly' based VBC charts is simple - I have no idea if my setup is legit or not when taking a trade. Again, as stated above, as soon as ONE candle is off, everything after that is off.

 

Since I use candlestick analysis, having candles that aren't even true is completely misleading. Having a hammer on a true VBC chart is much different than a completely random TS chart.

 

I can see at face value how a difference of 500 vs 600 does not seem like much, but you have to remember that EACH candle is COMPLETELY different in terms of how much volume is actually represented there. I mean, I have NO idea if the next candle will have 500, 600 or 700 contracts represented. With that info, plus knowing that my candlesticks are completely inaccurate, does that make sense?

 

BrownsFan: Ok, I admit, not a candlestick guy, never have been. More of a price structure (higher highs, lows, trendlines, etc) guy.

 

TS works for me and I don't pay for the platform because I do in excess of 100 RT's per month. They have some quirks for sure, but then again, every platform will. If precise volume bars are important to you then you probably need to swith platforms. BTW, no offense was ever intended. Best of luck in your trading.

[ezduzzit 10]

Great ideas guys, thank you.

 

I am testing Multi now and will take a look at some of the others as well. Multi came recommended from a few others using volume based charts. One nice thing I like about Multi is that you can buy it outright and then just pay for data. Not too bad in my opinion if you decide that software is for you. I'll have to read into how that works more, but never had that option with TS or ESignal.

 

Browns... I would think twice about migrating over to Multi as many say it is full of basic bugs and slow as molasses compared to TS. I have run volume based charts on both ESignal and Ninja Trader and had no problems whatsoever. Ensign is certainly another strong contender for what you desire. ESignal just never stops increasing its prices and in fact recently announced an upcoming price increase again for July 1, but I will say that it does provide a reliable and clean datafeed compared to most.

 

Good luck in your transition.. I too would make a changeover if I were wishing to use volume bars and got what TS provides you.

 

Happy Trading

[brownsfan019 17]

Browns... I would think twice about migrating over to Multi as many say it is full of basic bugs and slow as molasses compared to TS. I have run volume based charts on both ESignal and Ninja Trader and had no problems whatsoever. Ensign is certainly another strong contender for what you desire. ESignal just never stops increasing its prices and in fact recently announced an upcoming price increase again for July 1, but I will say that it does provide a reliable and clean datafeed compared to most.

 

Good luck in your transition.. I too would make a changeover if I were wishing to use volume bars and got what TS provides you.

 

Happy Trading

 

ez - I will be trying multi this upcoming week and will be sure to let everyone know how it goes. It appears to have what I need (which is not much to begin with) so we will see. I demo'd ESignal again today and just not impressed with it. Some basic features that I have grown accustomed to are not there. Ensign will be a consideration if there's any issues with Multi.

[walterw 10]

let me add that esignal as software its not very nice, the data service from esignal is very good, you have a great amount of softwares compatible with their data feed,about prices, if you are not a ts acct customer esignal is much cheaper.... cheers Walter.

[brownsfan019 17]

Here's what I found out about pricing so far:

Multi is $49/mo

 

Data feeds vary:

IQfeed.net is $99/mo for the data I need

eSignal is $115/mo for the exact same data

TS data is also $115/mo or higher

 

I think the difference is that iqfeed.net is just a data provider, not also a charting company (I think).

 

The other nice thing about Multi is you can buy it outright for $799 right now. Apparently that price has gone up in the last few months, so it's like 'act now, or else' type thing. But at $800 = 16 mo's of service at $50/mo, so in month 17 it has 'paid for itself'. Assuming of course you like the software. I am going to use it for a few months and then consider purchasing.

[BlowFish 10]

I have used multicharts for a while on and off. It has great promise but ultimately it ends up with me tearing my hair out. Basically there are a bunch of irritating little bugs and it just feels 'clunky'. I hope it works out for you but I'd try and give it a good long trial.

 

I hope that they get there eventually but it seems to take an awful long time to fix the most basic things. I actually bought it when it was $295 so no great shakes but I have wasted an awful lot of time (which is far more valuable).

 

Cheers,

Nick.

[brownsfan019 17]

So far, so good with MultiCharts and TS data. I am using TS data for now since I am paid for April. I just requested a trial from iqfeed.net for data as I plan to use that for data since they are less expensive than carrying a TS account as well.

 

Will keep everyone posted but I haven't really found any 'bugs' as others have reported based on how I use the charts. Mine are pretty simple though.

[brownsfan019 17]

4/16/07 Update - Running MC today with TS and IQfeed.net data and all worked as planned. Nice, smooth constant candles. It's actually very different to view the charts in constant fashion vs. the sporadic movements on TradeStation. Much easier on the eyes and easier to trade in my opinion.

 

Moral of the story - if using VBC charts, ensure that your charting platform is using 'constant' VBC's where each and every candle is the amount you set, not some randomly generated number.

[torero 10]

Brown, I think you can set constant in TS, in the properties field where you keep the chart prices fixed.

 

A quick question, on MC, are there an order entry like a Matrix or DOM? What broker are you using to do the trades?

[torero 10]

Brownfan, how much do you really need EasyLanguage? Do you program your own unique indicators with it? If not I would choose Ensign over MultiCharts. There's so much functionality within Ensign that unless you really do have some unique indicators, you probably won't need to do any coding. Volume based charting is really Ensign's niche and they have some features not found elsewhere. Having tried out the various options I would say Ensign is the best charting program and eSignal is the best data provider. I found MultiCharts buggy and Investor/RT was the worst piece of software ever (on a Windows PC - I understand it was designed for the mac).

 

Best idea would be to get a free trial of eSignal Premier and also a free trial of Ensign and MultiCharts then you can test them all out on eSignal data for free.

 

notouch, does Ensign have Equivolume? TS doesn't provide it and I like to use it in the morning trades. I ran a trial in the past with them, but don't remember seeing that option. How's the coding structure, complex or simple like EasyLanguage?

[brownsfan019 17]

Brown, I think you can set constant in TS, in the properties field where you keep the chart prices fixed.

 

A quick question, on MC, are there an order entry like a Matrix or DOM? What broker are you using to do the trades?

 

tor - you cannot do constant in TradeStation. They do volume charts, but it is subject to their 'interpretation'. Basically, if you set something at 500 for example when it reaches 499 and if an order for 100 hits, your new candle is now 599. And it will change all day long.

 

See my screenshot for explanation. Here I created a little tracker at the bottom that shows how much each candle represented there was over my threshold setting. For each larger yellow bar you see, that volume represented in that candle is OVER my setting, in this case a 5000 setting on the ES. The extremes you see here are over by 665, 670, etc. In those extreme candles, that's more than 10% of my setting...

 

In summary, TradeStation does not support Constant Volume Charting and for anyone reading this, you would be wise to look for alternatives if you would like your chart to be formatted correctly. I personally do not see the value of random, periodic spikes on your chart. You have no idea when they will show up or by how much over they will be, they just simply show up.

[brownsfan019 17]

notouch, does Ensign have Equivolume? TS doesn't provide it and I like to use it in the morning trades. I ran a trial in the past with them, but don't remember seeing that option. How's the coding structure, complex or simple like EasyLanguage?

 

tor - test out MultiCharts as well. They support EasyLanguage. They actually call it EasyLanguage. Basically, it looks like Multi is a TS knockoff with some more features. Just take a look at their web url: http://www.tssupport.com/products/multicharts/

[subq 10]

I know this thread is old, but I talked to Linnsoft a while back about this issue because of another thread and they now have true constant volume bars, if you have IRT slap the volume on there and you should see everything correctly.

 

Just thought I would comment that it is fixed in IRT now.

[LS_Chad 10]

So, I am asking for help of those using something other than TS for charting - if you could be so kind as to first see if your charting platform supports Volume Based Charts (aka Share Bars) and then add a volume histogram to the bottom of it and see if the volume is nice and uniform or if it is like my pic above. Please post all feedback here so we can help each other out!

 

brownsfan,

 

Here's a chart showing 500 volume bars in Investor/RT.

 

http://www.charthub.com/images/2008/02/06/RegressionBands_2.png

 

 

About a year ago, I changed the way our volume bars divided up the contracts. We were creating bars that were at least 500 contracts, but could exceed the 500 based on the size of the last trade that completed the bar. Now, we split the last trade up between bars if needed, so that each bar is exactly the volume called for. Theoretically, a single tick could create many bars (one tick of 2500 would result in 5 volume bars of 500).

[brownsfan019 17]

Thanks for the updates guys, good stuff!

 

Now that Open ECry also supports constant volume charts, I am content with using their charts.