Any DAX and/or STOXX traders here

[Guest Tresor]

Have you tried using Firefox? I think they have a built in RSS feed links. Also, I think they have some add ons you could use also. Just an idea.

 

Hi trader 273,

 

I am using Firefox. It is a good browser. You can e.g. subscribe to RSS feed for CBOT's separate products, like mini-sized dow or big dow, etc.

 

The problem, as I found out today, with Eurex is their RSS policy. They do not communicate extraordinary events via RSS. I have exchanged a few e-mails with a nice lady from this exchange and she advised me to regularily check their website for pdf circulars on such extraordinary occurances. All to make a trader's life even more complicated. Why not just simply put it on RSS :crap: ?!

[Guest Tresor]

Could someone please say what daytrade and overnight margins and commissions (in $) of Eurex most traded contracts are? No need to write exact values, just region of:

 

FESX

FDAX

FGBS

FGBM

FGBL

FSMI

 

Thanks

[rsi77 10]

This will certainly vary hugely from broker to broker. I trade DAX quite a bit and have information for this market only.

 

TradeStation requires something on the order of 14k maintenance for the DAX, while Infinity AT Brokers require something closer to 1k. Commissions can range from $3.50 to $7.00 (or more) a round turn.

 

You need to contact your a specific broker to find out what you will be paying.

 

Ron

[AgeKay 10]

Could someone please say what daytrade and overnight margins and commissions (in $) of Eurex most traded contracts are?

 

I know of a U.S. broker that currently has the following margins and commissions:

 

Contract | Commission per round trip | Intraday margin | Overnight margin

FESX | <= 2.5€ | 800€ | 14700€

FDAX | <= 2.5€ | 3500€ | 3300€

FGBS | <= 1.9€ | 100€ | 400€

FGBM | <= 1.9€ | 200€ | 800€

FGBL | <= 1.9€ | 400€ | 1400€

FSMI (not available)

 

PM me if you want to know the name of the broker.

[Sanka 10]

I know of a U.S. broker that currently has the following margins and commissions:

 

Contract | Commission per round trip | Intraday margin | Overnight margin

FESX | <= 2.5€ | 800€ | 14700€

FDAX | <= 2.5€ | 3500€ | 3300€

FGBS | <= 1.9€ | 100€ | 400€

FGBM | <= 1.9€ | 200€ | 800€

FGBL | <= 1.9€ | 400€ | 1400€

FSMI (not available)

 

PM me if you want to know the name of the broker.

 

I think, that 14700€ overnight margin for FESX is nonsense. Maybe, If will swap with FDAX overnight margin, it´ll be possible

[AgeKay 10]

I think, that 14700€ overnight margin for FESX is nonsense. Maybe, If will swap with FDAX overnight margin, it´ll be possible

 

You're right, I mixed those two up when I copied it from their webpage. FESX overnight margin is 3300€ and FDAX overnight margin is 14700€.

[programmer 10]

I just read through this thread.

As an experienced programmer and trader, I would suggest that all wannabe Dax traders avoid this market until they have at least 1 year of demo trading it! I am not kidding, this market is unique and crazy.

 

There recently have been some spikes on dax that could set you back 30-50 points in a couple of seconds . These spikes can be explained logically, however, day traders can get their accounts wiped out very quickly if using leverage on this contract.

 

It seems that the more retail traders play these markets, the more these markets become unstable and dangerous.

I would avoid Infinity or any other brokers that is not located directly in Europe, in lieu of delay from server to server US/EU can cause very bad fills.

 

Also, do not trade this market if the depth is weak, I would wait for 50 plus on both sides of the depth to even start looking at a possible trade.

 

As for auto trading and systems programming for the dax. Well I coded it all for the dax and would say that absent a true manual edge and Volume analysis nothing will work consistantly, and even if something will , recent spikes in price suggest that a nominal ratio of 1 lot to 15k is the max you should risk on that contract.

 

To sum up, do not trade this contract if you don't know what you are doing and absent at least a year of demo trading!

You really have to be a pro to cash on this one !

[AgeKay 10]

There recently have been some spikes on dax that could set you back 30-50 points in a couple of seconds . These spikes can be explained logically, however, day traders can get their accounts wiped out very quickly if using leverage on this contract.

 

So what is the logical explaination for these spikes?

[BlowFish 10]

 

There recently have been some spikes on dax that could set you back 30-50 points in a couple of seconds . These spikes can be explained logically, however, day traders can get their accounts wiped out very quickly if using leverage on this contract.

 

 

I am not sure whether it was this thread but I have said much the same in the past. I have seen price marked up 40 odd points...then back to where is started.... then down 40 points and finally back to where it started again to carry on 'normally'.

 

AK not sure there is a logical explanation except it can be thin at times so easy to move.

[programmer 10]

It would be nice to reply to a thread more politely...

SO...X.... is not very nice....

 

As for your q:

The answer lies mainly in volume.

The spikes are massive orders coming into the market.

The cause is the Market structure:

The orders must "meet partners" in a zero sum game....

If you want to understand this fully read how the exchnage is built, and mainly the rounds of orders circulated.

This information is freely available on any exchange.

 

In essence market makers bomb the market in rounds of 5 mins, to round hour.

The bigger the volume, the less likely it is a market order.

TRO's idea to straddle the 1hr open range expansion is a nice idea to try to bank on this idea, however, market makers know this now, hence the unusual spikes at unexplained intervals out of the order.

Hence, why the more small retail player play games like "tro's" 1ST HR RANGE EXPANSION, THE MORE It HURTS THE MARKETS...

 

PS - No offence to TRO, or his ways, or his donational indicators...

 

Hope you understand now :>

 

So what is the logical explaination for these spikes?

[monad 10]

programmer,

 

Which trading platform you use for trading Dax and also what timeframe intraday.

 

Have you tried futuresbetting.com in London, unlike spreadbetting, the orders go through the normal exchange, however the advantage is on capital gains tax.

[programmer 10]

programmer,

 

Which trading platform you use for trading Dax and also what timeframe intraday.

 

Have you tried futuresbetting.com in London, unlike spreadbetting, the orders go through the normal exchange, however the advantage is on capital gains tax.

 

I use use my own coded direct to API platform .

No I have never used Futuresbetting.com, I use IB since I also manage a "small" fund and IB are to be trusted with this !

Edited May 2, 2009 by programmer

[AgeKay 10]

Blowfish, I remember the FDAX was extremely correlated to the FESX. How can they move the FDAX without moving FESX?

 

Programmer, sorry, your response does not make any sense to me because there are no traditional market makers in FDAX.

[BlowFish 10]

I guess simply by bidding up the price. If there are enough stops these would 'cascade' as they turn to market orders triggering more stops. It's Not hard to imagine that as the DAX is now overvalued compared to the ESX that the same guys are selling into the surge. This is supposition but seems reasonable.

 

I have noticed that instruments with thinner order books and more granularity often whip around a lot more than 'heavier' correlated contracts. This used to be noticeable even with the S&P and the ES when it was first introduced.

[programmer 10]

I guess simply by bidding up the price. If there are enough stops these would 'cascade' as they turn to market orders triggering more stops. It's Not hard to imagine that as the DAX is now overvalued compared to the ESX that the same guys are selling into the surge. This is supposition but seems reasonable.

 

I have noticed that instruments with thinner order books and more granularity often whip around a lot more than 'heavier' correlated contracts. This used to be noticeable even with the S&P and the ES when it was first introduced.

 

Yes Blowfish, tnx.

Just observe the Dax when the depth is weak, you will see that the surges appear quite near that time. Its massive dumping of orders in search for a zero sum game partner, hence the strange price spikes.

Imagine a whirlpool of orders if you may...

 

If one would want to avoid these, just wait for the depth to get some bulk (I have coded an alert into my depth (my own platform) to warn me when such an occurance i.e. blank depth [is current] to avoid trading the dax at that time.

 

The Fesx will rarely show this, since its volume is massive compared to the Dax. Actually if you have a very good signal ,I would trade the Fesx with some more juice to compensate for the shorter move.

[monad 10]

Programmer,

on dax, the market is thin in the first hour prior to opening of the Cash market, then next couple of hours from 9-10.30,11, there is enough liquidity.

Vol peters out during the lunch period before picking up as US session opens.

Once again 14hr-16.30, enough liquidity and then vol decreases.

 

So really trading during those 2 periods of nearly 90-120mins should be no problem.

Edited May 3, 2009 by monad

[BlowFish 10]

Programmer,

on dax, the market is thin in the first hour prior to opening of the Cash market, then next couple of hours from 9-10.30,11, there is enough liquidity.

Vol peters out during the lunch period before picking up as US session opens.

Once again 14hr-16.30, enough liquidity and then vol decreases.

 

So really trading during those 2 periods of nearly 90-120mins should be no problem.

 

It's still relatively thin. At times (even prime time) the order book just goes beserk. I haven't traded it for a while but 5 points slippage can easily occur. I am trying to remember the worse slippage I had....can't off hand. Do you trade it monad? It can be brutal and whoever advised the inexperienced to stay away was spot on.

[Jaap 10]

Daily volume of Dax future is about 150 k.

Daily volume of FESX future is about 1000 k.

Daily volume of FGBL future is about 600 k.

 

Jaap

[BlowFish 10]

One thing I noticed with the DAX that there seems to be some pretty big block trades that are presumably negotiated off the exchange and then reported as a block. This seems particularly prevalent as you approach expiration. That skews things too and is essentially liquidity that is not accessible.

[programmer 10]

One thing I noticed with the DAX that there seems to be some pretty big block trades that are presumably negotiated off the exchange and then reported as a block. This seems particularly prevalent as you approach expiration. That skews things too and is essentially liquidity that is not accessible.

 

No one knows, but something is quite out of the ordinary.

You can see that all the Euro indices are out of Sync, it seems that post the recent mega eco plague the market balance has gone wrong. Usually the Dollar Index was a guide in the loom,but now, I look into the Swiss and Cable float the get some info on the Greenbuck.

EW analysis is also almost rare even in sync, usually wave 4,5 or the ABC's were a given post a good wave three but now even that is out.

If I were to predict, which I never do whiule trading, It seems that another earthquake is in the making, the current "quiet" is fake . I think the Euro guys are rebuilding the export/import equations with less dollar in the formula's thus pushing the Fed to extreme measures of convertion bombs all over Europe...This is unstable and will Blow the Euro Dollar Sync and all the Indices correlated.

The pragmatic result of my blabber is that swings are shorter and targets are vague more than ever.

 

We need to find a new link...

[monad 10]

Anybody interested in Eurostoxx, seminar being held by folks at Infinity using Market Profile and Price Action,

 

Contact www. Infinity.com

 

To start in about 10min last for 90min 7th May.

[monad 10]

Looks like Eurex is going to launch Dax mini, 1pt = 5 euro. perhaps volume will pick up then.

[AgeKay 10]

Looks like Eurex is going to launch Dax mini, 1pt = 5 euro. perhaps volume will pick up then.

 

Do you have a link to that?

[monad 10]

One of the chief representative of the Eurexchange was in the webinar held by Infinity on Eurostoxx and she stated that there were plans to launch Dax emini which would be 1/5 the size of the full contract , she did not mention the exact date, presume they want to see more liquidity in that market compared to what it is now.

[AgeKay 10]

If that mini DAX has the same volatility as the FDAX now, then that 1 mini Dax contract would be identical to a 1 FESX contract. Be prepared to see heavy computerized trading (auto spreading).