Applying Joe Ross Trading Methods

[tradingwizzard 10]

BlueHorseshoe,

 

Attached is the tick chart you wanted to see. I wait for the bar to close and then I place a limit order in my DOM. When placing this resting order at the open of the next bar, my order sits on the DOM until price hits my entry. I am then filled or not. If I am filled, then I am in the trade. Since I use a limit order instead of a market order, there is no slippage.

 

 

As you can see, I was filled at 106.13 which was 7 seconds after the open of that 5 minute bar that you saw in the other chart. On this trade, I traded a 10 lot. The red arrows are my short contracts at 106.13. Looks like price went against me initially and then proceeded to hit my target at 106.03 for +10 ticks.

 

I hope that answers any questions you might have.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

 

hi handle,

 

I saw you always go for 10 ticks.......why is that?

[Patuca 13]

Patuca,

 

The heat in this kitchen is not hot. However, the purpose of this thread was to keep myself disciplined and focused as well as invite constructive discussion and comments. I have found another forum that suits my goals as this forum has not.

 

I thought that Trader's Laboratory was a good place for traders to complement each other, not ridicule each other. The market is hard enough on us traders, we don't need more negativity from each other.

 

Tony

True true true..but a little fun now and then? Come on...along with the sunshine theres got to be a little rain sometime...

 

I thought forums were to help each other....?..socialize...? Have a little fun? A yellow legal pad could have served your purpose of staying disciplined as the info you were sharing..well i didn't see much value to traders in it...bot at x price sold at x made 10 ticks...sorry but no other info could i really see except your pieces of chart with no expanation of why entry and exit or otherwise...

 

Come on over to beyond taylor thread where you have my permission insult me ...mock me...laugh at me ..as long as done in a decent way..as i attempt to apply taylors strategies live to the ES...it may be a real big failure but i don't care..it will be fun and perhaps we will all learn something. I do not know if taylor will work with the ES or not. I know it does with stocks. Anyway..happy trading..

Edited September 9, 2013 by Patuca

[tradingwizzard 10]

True true true..but a little fun now and then? Come on...along with the sunshine theres got to be a little rain sometime...

 

I thought forums were to help each other....?..socialize...? Have a little fun? A yellow legal pad could have served your purpose of staying disciplined as the info you were sharing..well i didn't see much value to traders in it...bot at x price sold at x made 10 ticks...sorry but no other info could i really see except your pieces of chart with no expanation of why entry and exit or otherwise...

 

Come on over to beyond taylor thread where you have my permission insult me ...mock me...laugh at me ..as long as done in a decent way..as i attempt to apply taylors strategies live to the ES...it may be a real big failure but i don't care..it will be fun and perhaps we will all learn something. I do not know if taylor will work with the ES or not. I know it does with stocks. Anyway..happy trading..

 

great post Patuca.....a big like from me....I know nothing about Taylor......looking forward to see it

[handle 10]

hi handle,

 

I saw you always go for 10 ticks.......why is that?

 

For day trading, Joe teaches to scalp. 10 ticks is a good scalp amount in CL.

[RickW00716 10]

For day trading, Joe teaches to scalp. 10 ticks is a good scalp amount in CL.

 

Would you recommend Joe Ross's daytrading the emini book?

 

I was wondering if it could be useful.

 

thank you

[zdo 20]

handle,

 

I appreciate the way you have handled the off topic bulsht in your thread.

 

If by some small chance you do persist here, you might reconsider and more openly discuss some of the Ross methods / patterns themselves. ... possibly even contacting Joe for permission. The fact is - and quite contrary to what others have posted above - most of Ross's setups have either been contributed by him into the public domain or have been disclosed elsewhere - if no where else, in his books. I'm almost certain you could discuss the actual patterns / knowledge without dislosing any of the wisdom and understanding you garnered from your face to face work with him and without violating any NDA you agreed to with him.

 

all the best,

 

zdo

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

 

I hope that answers any questions you might have.

 

That answers my question very thoroughly - thanks!

 

Regards,

 

BlueHorseshoe

[clmacdougall 11]

Funny story...... bought and read 4 of Joe Ross' books. Sold them off through amazon, one of the people who bought one of his books from me was Conrad Black!!! Had to send it to him while he was in prison in Florida. Hope it works for him!!

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Handle,

 

Please give TL another shot, I think everyone here had realized their mistakes and we will moderate better in the future

 

thx

MMS

[handle 10]

Would you recommend Joe Ross's daytrading the emini book?

 

I was wondering if it could be useful.

 

thank you

 

Yes! One of my favorite books by Joe Ross.

[RickW00716 10]

Yes! One of my favorite books by Joe Ross.

 

Thanks handle. Would you say it has good entries for someone who has a good understanding of intraday support and resistance but who has trouble finding the right place and time to enter?

 

i am very good at finding intraday levels but when the price reaches them, i have no idea how to confirm that the level is holding or when to enter(without being too late)

 

For example: today when the ES pulled back to 1683.50 around 12noon EST, my analysis said that as long as 1683 holds, the trade should be good for a long. I was thinking it might pullback to 1683 but it didn't so I didn't know how to handle that situation.

 

Thanks again

[Patuca 13]

Thanks handle. Would you say it has good entries for someone who has a good understanding of intraday support and resistance but who has trouble finding the right place and time to enter?

 

i am very good at finding intraday levels but when the price reaches them, i have no idea how to confirm that the level is holding or when to enter(without being too late)

 

For example: today when the ES pulled back to 1683.50 around 12noon EST, my analysis said that as long as 1683 holds, the trade should be good for a long. I was thinking it might pullback to 1683 but it didn't so I didn't know how to handle that situation.

 

Thanks again

My understanding is that Mr Ross does not believe in support and resistance...now than is a concept that chews up traditional and present day thinking...

 

Mr handle might clarify that?....

[handle 10]

My understanding is that Mr Ross does not believe in support and resistance...now than is a concept that chews up traditional and present day thinking...

 

Mr handle might clarify that?....

 

Pauca,

 

What he taught me is that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work. Since there is no real edge to S/R, then don't use them. He teaches the Law of Charts and uses that as the basis for his trading methods.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[handle 10]

My understanding is that Mr Ross does not believe in support and resistance...now than is a concept that chews up traditional and present day thinking...

 

Mr handle might clarify that?....

 

For example, look at CL today. Yesterday's high (resistance?) was 108.09. Market shot right through it 3:19 AM (PST) went to 108.58.

 

Then at 6:26 AM (PST) it blasted right through 108.09 (resistance turned support??) to 107.83.

 

At 6:35 AM (PST) 108.09 held and chopped until it blasted through 108.09 (resistance?) again at 6:46 AM (PST) and chopped until 8:06 AM (PST) where it shot up to 108.64.

 

So I'm not sure that there is an edge in support and resistance. Of course it's only one day, but you get the point. No edge. IMHO. But if you have a method that works for S/R, then you are the man!!

[johnw 10]

Thanks handle. Would you say it has good entries for someone who has a good understanding of intraday support and resistance but who has trouble finding the right place and time to enter?

 

i am very good at finding intraday levels but when the price reaches them, i have no idea how to confirm that the level is holding or when to enter(without being too late)

 

For example: today when the ES pulled back to 1683.50 around 12noon EST, my analysis said that as long as 1683 holds, the trade should be good for a long. I was thinking it might pullback to 1683 but it didn't so I didn't know how to handle that situation.

 

Thanks again

 

Hello Rick,

 

Your analysis was good, the pullback to 83.50 was in an uptrend that showed no signs of weakness and so the pullback was a BUY.

However, you were hoping/assuming that the price would fall to your level of 83.00, but it didn't... this is not a clever thing to do, since you are giving away control of the trigger.

Remember that price controls direction, but you control the trigger ...this is important.

 

What you are lacking is a Traders Mind ...ie what am I going to do when price reaches a supply/demand zone

I say 'zone' rather than 'level' because when price reaches a supply/demand area things can get messy as it shakes out the weak Players and tries to trap other Players on the wrong side.

 

This is the essence of Trading.

What you need to contemplate, is entering after a return to upward momentum (in this example) or a retest of the low of the zone.( offering a better entry and a tighter stop)

Your stop size is critical.

Also, if you have any thoughts of win/loss ratios, I would place them gently to one side and retrain yourself to think in terms of hold/scratch ... in other words, once you are in the market your options then become ... will I continue (hold this trade) or will I scratch this entry and look for better one.

The next entry might be in a minute into the same price wave, in which case it may well yield an extra tic or three to cover your scratch trade, or you may miss this price wave and wait for the next one.

 

Add up your scratch trades each day and when the total is close to zero, or better still, it is positive, it means that your trading style of entry is exactly on the money.

 

Focusing on staying in a winning trade without being prematurely 'shaken out' is another subject.

[RickW00716 10]

Hello Rick,

 

Your analysis was good, the pullback to 83.50 was in an uptrend that showed no signs of weakness and so the pullback was a BUY.

However, you were hoping/assuming that the price would fall to your level of 83.00, but it didn't... this is not a clever thing to do, since you are giving away control of the trigger.

Remember that price controls direction, but you control the trigger ...this is important.

 

What you are lacking is a Traders Mind ...ie what am I going to do when price reaches a supply/demand zone

I say 'zone' rather than 'level' because when price reaches a supply/demand area things can get messy as it shakes out the weak Players and tries to trap other Players on the wrong side.

 

This is the essence of Trading.

What you need to contemplate, is entering after a return to upward momentum (in this example) or a retest of the low of the zone.( offering a better entry and a tighter stop)

Your stop size is critical.

Also, if you have any thoughts of win/loss ratios, I would place them gently to one side and retrain yourself to think in terms of hold/scratch ... in other words, once you are in the market your options then become ... will I continue (hold this trade) or will I scratch this entry and look for better one.

The next entry might be in a minute into the same price wave, in which case it may well yield an extra tic or three to cover your scratch trade, or you may miss this price wave and wait for the next one.

 

Add up your scratch trades each day and when the total is close to zero, or better still, it is positive, it means that your trading style of entry is exactly on the money.

 

Focusing on staying in a winning trade without being prematurely 'shaken out' is another subject.

 

Thank you very much for the advice . It is very much appreciated!

[Patuca 13]

Pauca,

 

What he taught me is that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work. Since there is no real edge to S/R, then don't use them. He teaches the Law of Charts and uses that as the basis for his trading methods.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

well he is correct about that. Price doesn't see our horizontal lines or MA lines however institutions do and they make the price or get the ball rolling so to speak. Some manage to blast price right thru our lines. Others institutions manage to defend the levels. I think it better to weigh the pressures bullish/bearish that have been in play prior to a level being reached. It can give some indication if price will go thru the level or be rejected at the level.

[johnw 10]

For example, look at CL today. Yesterday's high (resistance?) was 108.09. Market shot right through it 3:19 AM (PST) went to 108.58.

..........................................................

So I'm not sure that there is an edge in support and resistance. Of course it's only one day, but you get the point. No edge. IMHO. But if you have a method that works for S/R, then you are the man!!

 

Hi Handle

 

Try looking inside your 5 minute charts, rather just focusing on the daily lines

 

They are there

[MidKnight 12]

Speaking of S/R. I've long long being a serious advocate of S/R zones. However, in an attempt to learn something new I read a book that challenged the usefulness of S/R. I was gobsmacked at the suggestion! But I persevered with his exercise, and that is; open a chart and hide your price bars, draw some lines at random on the chart and now make your price bars visible. My world just fell apart. I often saw the same interactions on these random lines as I did on my S/R lines. Do the exercise a few dozen times, change the symbols, change the timeframe - same result from my study.

 

:doh: WOWSERS! :doh: :doh: :doh: :crap:

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

PS: The book is: The Art & Science of Technical Analysis by Adam Grimes

[tradingwizzard 10]

Speaking of S/R. I've long long being a serious advocate of S/R zones. However, in an attempt to learn something new I read a book that challenged the usefulness of S/R. I was gobsmacked at the suggestion! But I persevered with his exercise, and that is; open a chart and hide your price bars, draw some lines at random on the chart and now make your price bars visible. My world just fell apart. I often saw the same interactions on these random lines as I did on my S/R lines. Do the exercise a few dozen times, change the symbols, change the timeframe - same result from my study.

 

:doh: WOWSERS! :doh: :doh: :doh: :crap:

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

PS: The book is: The Art & Science of Technical Analysis by Adam Grimes

 

I never thought about that......I will definitely try :crap:

[johnw 10]

Speaking of S/R. I've long long being a serious advocate of S/R zones. However, in an attempt to learn something new I read a book that challenged the usefulness of S/R. I was gobsmacked at the suggestion! But I persevered with his exercise, and that is; open a chart and hide your price bars, draw some lines at random on the chart and now make your price bars visible. My world just fell apart. I often saw the same interactions on these random lines as I did on my S/R lines. Do the exercise a few dozen times, change the symbols, change the timeframe - same result from my study.

 

:doh: WOWSERS! :doh: :doh: :doh: :crap:

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

PS: The book is: The Art & Science of Technical Analysis by Adam Grimes

 

Hello MK,

 

There are many instances of these mental experiments and they do make us think ... as indeed they should.... in many human endeavours, especially those that require one Learned Soul passing un(semi) quantifiable to a hungry Student, it works.

 

However Trading is as quantifiable as it gets ... just look at your daily Brokerage Statement.

It is even more exact than being the World's fastest man... even if you run the 100M in the fastest recorded time, there is always the suspicion of drugs hanging over the Runners head.

 

Trading is brutally honest.

 

And so when People tell us things like 'S&R doesn't really work" they are demonstrating the limits of their range of their thoughts or assumptions on the subject.

 

When I say to Handle 'the supply/demand zones exist intraday CL' ... I say this because I can see them.

I do not say to Handle that if he doesn't use them then he must be nuts, because that would be a presumption on my part... Handle is a Trader and answers only to himself.

S&D zones are the result of Longs and Shorts doing battle and the Winner controls the next Price Wave ... to me this is the very essence of market structure and it is the guts of trading.

The Zones will be as long as your bars are small ... it is your choice entirely how you choose to exhibit your price information.

Once we accept these concepts, then we can decide how we are going to build a mathematical edge that is applied consistently.

Without this edge we are dog tucker.

Without this edge, Retail Traders who are well funded will take longer to go broke than Traders with smaller balances.

However the Trader who grasps the structure of the market and who builds a mathematical edge will grow their account.

 

In short ...

It doesn't matter what you do, so long as you grow your account.

This means that any/all experiences, opinions, thoughts and assumptions should be embraced openly and put to the test mathematically before any decision is taken.

 

This is a brutally honest game ... and I mean that we have to be brutally honest with ourselves in every respect.

[zdo 20]

johnw, best post ever...thx

[handle 10]

Yup

And within the context of TL going into decline(?) probably what we need is quality rather than quantity.....

 

mitsubishi,

 

I agree with that. And a penalty for lack of quality...

[handle 10]

Hello MK,

 

There are many instances of these mental experiments and they do make us think ... as indeed they should.... in many human endeavours, especially those that require one Learned Soul passing un(semi) quantifiable to a hungry Student, it works.

 

However Trading is as quantifiable as it gets ... just look at your daily Brokerage Statement.

It is even more exact than being the World's fastest man... even if you run the 100M in the fastest recorded time, there is always the suspicion of drugs hanging over the Runners head.

 

Trading is brutally honest.

 

And so when People tell us things like 'S&R doesn't really work" they are demonstrating the limits of their range of their thoughts or assumptions on the subject.

 

When I say to Handle 'the supply/demand zones exist intraday CL' ... I say this because I can see them.

I do not say to Handle that if he doesn't use them then he must be nuts, because that would be a presumption on my part... Handle is a Trader and answers only to himself.

S&D zones are the result of Longs and Shorts doing battle and the Winner controls the next Price Wave ... to me this is the very essence of market structure and it is the guts of trading.

The Zones will be as long as your bars are small ... it is your choice entirely how you choose to exhibit your price information.

Once we accept these concepts, then we can decide how we are going to build a mathematical edge that is applied consistently.

Without this edge we are dog tucker.

Without this edge, Retail Traders who are well funded will take longer to go broke than Traders with smaller balances.

However the Trader who grasps the structure of the market and who builds a mathematical edge will grow their account.

 

In short ...

It doesn't matter what you do, so long as you grow your account.

This means that any/all experiences, opinions, thoughts and assumptions should be embraced openly and put to the test mathematically before any decision is taken.

 

This is a brutally honest game ... and I mean that we have to be brutally honest with ourselves in every respect.

 

Thank you.

 

One thing I would add is that they always "work" and they don't always "work" depending on your target and stop.

 

An infinite stop and a small target will surely "work" on a particular trade regardless of method. Just like a infinite target and small stop will never "work" on a particular trade. But in the long run, you will see your results in black and white.

 

P/L is the true judge in this game.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Hi, nice of you to post your log....what would also help struggling traders is if you would provide an approximate budget...so that they can have a realistic idea of what an effective education costs....

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

Priceless cause he can compound and be a billionaire .