Applying Joe Ross Trading Methods

[johnw 10]

Well there you have it.

Two well written posts .......Mr Patuca , on scalping/ short term trading

And Mr Horseshoes on longer term/ end of day trading.

Maybe this should be moved to a new thread to allow others to comment

regards

bobc

 

If you are determined to intraday trade the ES, you will find over time that most (if not all) of your thoughts towards trading will melt away as they are replaced by thoughts that are particular towards your new found interest

 

Words like 'noise' will cease to exist ... win/loss ratio will fade away as you focus on entry continuance or scratch.

You lose interest in R/R but you might be heavily attracted to moving averages of High/Low and whether they are traveling in near straight lines from time to time and whether your bar entry lies inside/outside the last bar mov av. of High/Low.

RTH Open will be a fat line across your chart together with Yesterday's Close ...2,3 day high/low plus other lines dragged forward from significant recent and not so recent turning points.

 

Trend and momentum merge (who cares what to call the next few minutes) ..either you have bought in or sold in to the developing price wave... you are either long or short on an OCO trade and your management requires you to drag the stops around the DOM, or hit the Flatten button when you want out.

Trailing Stops are for other People.

 

This style of trading is not everyone's cup of tea quite frankly .... it is best treated as a game IMO and as such we train for it ... and train hard.

 

We all need a realistic understanding of our appetite to stress and our ability to react immediately.

The rewards are good, because you are doing the same thing several times each day, (although your no. of lots keeps increasing) ... and over time you will come to understand that the price is repeating patterns but not always in the same order.

 

That is why People hold the believe that the market is random.

 

Remember that 'No. of Lots"' does the heavy lifting ... you just need to provide stability.

 

Lastly, it is a simple game and you must keep it that way ... there is no time for complexity

[handle 10]

quick question and I admit I didn't read all the answers on the thread......is the entry being made at the opening of the candle?

 

tradingwizzard,

 

I place the order at the start of the new candle / bar.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[zdo 20]

Hi handle

....Your method is nonsense.Nothing personal.

...

You might even want to change your method after reading about Gann trading.

regards

bobc

 

Not everyone can trade/stick with Ross methods. Not everyone could trade / stick with Gann methods…

 

Between posters taking shts on other people’s systems and the posters, (so far only anticipated in this thread, but blve me they are their way here) who fling ‘it’s all in the edge’ - deniers of the REQUIREMENT that an edge be compatible with it’s user, it’s no small wonder to me that handle shares anything at all. Bobc I really appreciate your contributions across time, but that post – I don’t think that one helped you or anyone else. Instead of honoring his proximity to finding a self compatible system ,. You’re overlaying your own filters on it and calling ‘nonsense’ ???

 

The differences between ross methods and gann methods (in this case) abound in both structure and perceptual acuities required. The skill an eyeball Ross trader must develop (across time) is knowing those situations to stay out. This is really what separate Ross from ross traders … meanwhile most Gann methods need to be applied on every setup. … Gann found ‘no noise’ ie his 'inner geometry' tended to see and treat all pa as signal. Ross 'acknowledges' noise. His methods search for signal(s) in heavy noise… I haven’t the time to continue any comparisons in more depth...

 

…If nothing else, Ross methods are 20 – 30 times more ‘algorithmically- friendly’ than anything Gann… especially for short holding periods.

 

My point to noobs reading this - No method or edge in situ is "nonsense". Edges, in order be applied consistently across time, need to be matched to you, the individual trader. You're not just looking for an edge / method. You're looking for a method that matches well with your true nature.

[bobcollett 10]

tradingwizzard,

 

I place the order at the start of the new candle / bar.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

 

Hi Handle

Double dog nonsense. (patent Patuca)

Your RED / GREEN arrows show where you entered.

You must have the highest slippage in the world

Remember......novice traders come looking for help on TL.

And they are eager to accept anything.

And they will accept your posts as gospel

I think your posts are morally wrong.

But everybody else seems to accept your posts as genuine

So I guess I am wrong..... me and Galileo.

No regards

bobc

[Patuca 13]

Hi Handle

Double dog nonsense. (patent Patuca)

Your RED / GREEN arrows show where you entered.

You must have the highest slippage in the world

Remember......novice traders come looking for help on TL.

And they are eager to accept anything.

And they will accept your posts as gospel

I think your posts are morally wrong.

But everybody else seems to accept your posts as genuine

So I guess I am wrong..... me and Galileo.

No regards

bobc

Uh we have problem houston....entry into the atmosphere is not where originally projected at....what shall we do...over..commander cap Bob.

[tradingwizzard 10]

Hi Handle

Double dog nonsense. (patent Patuca)

Your RED / GREEN arrows show where you entered.

You must have the highest slippage in the world

Remember......novice traders come looking for help on TL.

And they are eager to accept anything.

And they will accept your posts as gospel

I think your posts are morally wrong.

But everybody else seems to accept your posts as genuine

So I guess I am wrong..... me and Galileo.

No regards

bobc

 

Bob,

 

I agree with you.....however, let the man do the job and will pinpoint some things by the time we have more history.....agree?

[bobcollett 10]

Uh we have problem houston....entry into the atmosphere is not where originally projected at....what shall we do...over..commander cap Bob.

 

Hi Patuca

Its supper time

A nice fillet steak and some dry white wine will help

In the mean time

I'll be back

The Terminator

[Patuca 13]

If you are determined to intraday trade the ES, you will find over time that most (if not all) of your thoughts towards trading will melt away as they are replaced by thoughts that are particular towards your new found interest

 

Words like 'noise' will cease to exist ... win/loss ratio will fade away as you focus on entry continuance or scratch.

You lose interest in R/R but you might be heavily attracted to moving averages of High/Low and whether they are traveling in near straight lines from time to time and whether your bar entry lies inside/outside the last bar mov av. of High/Low.

RTH Open will be a fat line across your chart together with Yesterday's Close ...2,3 day high/low plus other lines dragged forward from significant recent and not so recent turning points.

 

Trend and momentum merge (who cares what to call the next few minutes) ..either you have bought in or sold in to the developing price wave... you are either long or short on an OCO trade and your management requires you to drag the stops around the DOM, or hit the Flatten button when you want out.

Trailing Stops are for other People.

 

This style of trading is not everyone's cup of tea quite frankly .... it is best treated as a game IMO and as such we train for it ... and train hard.

 

We all need a realistic understanding of our appetite to stress and our ability to react immediately.

The rewards are good, because you are doing the same thing several times each day, (although your no. of lots keeps increasing) ... and over time you will come to understand that the price is repeating patterns but not always in the same order.

 

That is why People hold the believe that the market is random.

 

Remember that 'No. of Lots"' does the heavy lifting ... you just need to provide stability.

 

Lastly, it is a simple game and you must keep it that way ... there is no time for complexity

trend on a daily TF is noise on a weekly or monthly TF. it is all noise...yes ALL noise...moves..and noise...some with drum rolls...trading is noisy...now what noise is easier to predict?.....

 

Even the pit is noisy....posters are noisy.. People are noisy and nosey....i have to go fishing to get away from the noise...

 

PS NOISE =$$$$

 

Thanks Patuca :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

PPSS Waves are BS. Its more like currents...

[Patuca 13]

Hi Patuca

Its supper time

A nice fillet steak and some dry white wine will help

In the mean time

I'll be back

The Terminator

you may be stopping your arteries with steak and deadening your brain with wine...both will affect your training..Fish and orange juice on the other hand......

[bobcollett 10]

you may be stopping your arteries with steak and deadening your brain with wine...both will affect your training..Fish and orange juice on the other hand......

 

I burst into laughter when I read this.

OK , I'll compromise , fish and wine

bobc

 

PS "both will affect your training" :confused:

I hope you haven't been at the cherry bottle

[handle 10]

Hi Handle

Double dog nonsense. (patent Patuca)

Your RED / GREEN arrows show where you entered.

You must have the highest slippage in the world

Remember......novice traders come looking for help on TL.

And they are eager to accept anything.

And they will accept your posts as gospel

I think your posts are morally wrong.

But everybody else seems to accept your posts as genuine

So I guess I am wrong..... me and Galileo.

No regards

bobc

 

bobc,

 

I am not experiencing slippage on my entries. I am not sure why in one post you want me to share Joe Ross's methods and in another you claim the posts are morally wrong. Joe Ross has been adopting these strategies for over 50 years. He taught them to me and others and they work.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[handle 10]

Not everyone can trade/stick with Ross methods. Not everyone could trade / stick with Gann methods…

 

Between posters taking shts on other people’s systems and the posters, (so far only anticipated in this thread, but blve me they are their way here) who fling ‘it’s all in the edge’ - deniers of the REQUIREMENT that an edge be compatible with it’s user, it’s no small wonder to me that handle shares anything at all. Bobc I really appreciate your contributions across time, but that post – I don’t think that one helped you or anyone else. Instead of honoring his proximity to finding a self compatible system ,. You’re overlaying your own filters on it and calling ‘nonsense’ ???

 

The differences between ross methods and gann methods (in this case) abound in both structure and perceptual acuities required. The skill an eyeball Ross trader must develop (across time) is knowing those situations to stay out. This is really what separate Ross from ross traders … meanwhile most Gann methods need to be applied on every setup. … Gann found ‘no noise’ ie his 'inner geometry' tended to see and treat all pa as signal. Ross 'acknowledges' noise. His methods search for signal(s) in heavy noise… I haven’t the time to continue any comparisons in more depth...

 

…If nothing else, Ross methods are 20 – 30 times more ‘algorithmically- friendly’ than anything Gann… especially for short holding periods.

 

My point to noobs reading this - No method or edge in situ is "nonsense". Edges, in order be applied consistently across time, need to be matched to you, the individual trader. You're not just looking for an edge / method. You're looking for a method that matches well with your true nature.

 

Thank you zdo!! Just trying to keep it real.

[Patuca 13]

I burst into laughter when I read this.

OK , I'll compromise , fish and wine

bobc

 

PS "both will affect your training" :confused:

I hope you haven't been at the cherry bottle

capt bob did i say train? Yes, i did.. I mean't trade..but since i said train lets discuss train...j. ross friend..or disciple...handle is trying to train us via his blog even though he would never say that..please be friendly..the course is free you know....eat 3 times as much fish as wine if you must...beer would be better for you..vit B you know....

[Patuca 13]

See did you hear that capt bob the man has no slippage....we best make haste and advance to module two of the free course....for a considerable consideration you may even be able to get a diploma w/o finishing the course..

 

is this happy training/trading or happy hour? Zdo are you smoking something? John w zip drive left alarmed at all the noise..

[johnw 10]

tradingwizzard,

 

I place the order at the start of the new candle / bar.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

 

Good for you handle for applying Joe's methods on the odd occasion when you get a signal.

There is nothing wrong watching the price all day as you learn.

If you are not doing so already, pay careful attention to the LH and HL ... how they are formed and where they are formed and where the next bar starts in relation to the previous HL and LH.

After awhile you will begin to see where the market is being pushed.

Edited September 5, 2013 by johnw

[steve46 12]

Not everyone can trade/stick with Ross methods. Not everyone could trade / stick with Gann methods…

 

Between posters taking shts on other people’s systems and the posters, (so far only anticipated in this thread, but blve me they are their way here) who fling ‘it’s all in the edge’ - deniers of the REQUIREMENT that an edge be compatible with it’s user, it’s no small wonder to me that handle shares anything at all. Bobc I really appreciate your contributions across time, but that post – I don’t think that one helped you or anyone else. Instead of honoring his proximity to finding a self compatible system ,. You’re overlaying your own filters on it and calling ‘nonsense’ ???

 

The differences between ross methods and gann methods (in this case) abound in both structure and perceptual acuities required. The skill an eyeball Ross trader must develop (across time) is knowing those situations to stay out. This is really what separate Ross from ross traders … meanwhile most Gann methods need to be applied on every setup. … Gann found ‘no noise’ ie his 'inner geometry' tended to see and treat all pa as signal. Ross 'acknowledges' noise. His methods search for signal(s) in heavy noise… I haven’t the time to continue any comparisons in more depth...

 

…If nothing else, Ross methods are 20 – 30 times more ‘algorithmically- friendly’ than anything Gann… especially for short holding periods.

 

My point to noobs reading this - No method or edge in situ is "nonsense". Edges, in order be applied consistently across time, need to be matched to you, the individual trader. You're not just looking for an edge / method. You're looking for a method that matches well with your true nature.

 

ZDO

 

This I think is one of your best posts.....especially the last paragraph

 

What I observe about handle (more than just the trades he posts) is his approach to the "Profession" of trading....it seems to me that at some point, he made the decision to obtain the best tools he could find....in addition (to what you have pointed out) clearly he is taking personal responsibility for following the system....this is what you have to do, if you want to reach your goals....Clearly the result is excellent...now the only questions are....will the system hold up and can the operator continue to execute in a disciplined manner....

 

I hope struggling traders find it inspiring...

[handle 10]

See did you hear that capt bob the man has no slippage....we best make haste and advance to module two of the free course....for a considerable consideration you may even be able to get a diploma w/o finishing the course..

 

is this happy training/trading or happy hour? Zdo are you smoking something? John w zip drive left alarmed at all the noise..

 

Patuca,

 

I use limit orders. There is no slippage with limit orders. However, there is the risk that the market will fly right past you without filling your order; but there is no slippage. I only post the trades I am filled on.

 

You are welcome to take the course through Joe Ross or try and get some perspective by reading his books. I needed the private sessions since I had no background in trading. But an expert such as yourself might be able to just read the books.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[handle 10]

ZDO

 

This I think is one of your best posts.....especially the last paragraph

 

What I observe about handle (more than just the trades he posts) is his approach to the "Profession" of trading....it seems to me that at some point, he made the decision to obtain the best tools he could find....in addition (to what you have pointed out) clearly he is taking personal responsibility for following the system....this is what you have to do, if you want to reach your goals....Clearly the result is excellent...now the only questions are....will the system hold up and can the operator continue to execute in a disciplined manner....

 

I hope struggling traders find it inspiring...

 

Steve,

 

Thank you for your comments. My goal with this post is to keep me disciplined. I was hoping that students of Joe Ross would comment on any setups I may have missed or trades I executed incorrectly. Unfortunately, that has not been the case.

 

Tony

[handle 10]

Good for you handle for applying Joe's methods on the odd occasion when you get a signal.

There is nothing wrong watching the price all day as you learn.

If you are not doing so already, pay careful attention to the LH and HL ... how they are formed and where they are formed and where the next bar starts in relation to the previous HL and LH.

After awhile you will begin to see where the market is being pushed.

 

johnw,

 

One of the main tenants of Joe Ross is that markets are manipulated. Looking at the formation of the bars gives clues as to where the market makers want to take the market. The key is getting on board behind them when they do. Like remoras do with sharks.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[steve46 12]

Steve,

 

Thank you for your comments. My goal with this post is to keep me disciplined. I was hoping that students of Joe Ross would comment on any setups I may have missed or trades I executed incorrectly. Unfortunately, that has not been the case.

 

Tony

 

Well....I am guessing that YOU will know more about the setups and about Joe's concept than most members here....my own experience is limited however one of the things that appeals to me about this system is that it relies on the time tested behavior of traders....The "Hook" as I recall was developed by Joe after he read a comment by a trader named Kneafsy...Joe decided to do the same thing and his "Ross Hook" is essentially a pattern that makes use of his philosophy that markets are moved by professional interests, and having moved those markets, at intervals they will want to take profits....the correction that occurs as they do this is the "hook". Personally I like the idea of trading based on human behavior.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Patuca,

 

I use limit orders. There is no slippage with limit orders. However, there is the risk that the market will fly right past you without filling your order; but there is no slippage. I only post the trades I am filled on.

 

You are welcome to take the course through Joe Ross or try and get some perspective by reading his books. I needed the private sessions since I had no background in trading. But an expert such as yourself might be able to just read the books.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

 

Hi Handle,

 

Would it be possible to post two charts for your next entry, one with a five minute chart, and another with your entry price marked on a tick chart with a volume pane beneath?

 

Many thanks,

 

BlueHorseshoe

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

....i have to go fishing to get away from the noise...

 

Do you fish with a Joe Ross Hook on the end of your line, Patuca?

 

 

BlueHorseshoe

[handle 10]

Hi Handle,

 

Would it be possible to post two charts for your next entry, one with a five minute chart, and another with your entry price marked on a tick chart with a volume pane beneath?

 

Many thanks,

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

BlueHorseshoe,

 

I am sure if you are interested in a tick chart, you are welcome to post one here if you like. I use a bar chart so that is what I post. Keeping it simple...

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[tradingwizzard 10]

..............are you Joe Ross?

[zdo 20]

..............are you Joe Ross?

 

Soultrader, are you Joe Ross?

Edited September 6, 2013 by zdo