Applying Joe Ross Trading Methods

[handle 10]

Starting on Tuesday, September 3, I will be including an additional method as I learned it from Joe Ross. If anyone has learned from Joe Ross, please provide feedback and input.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[handle 10]

Trade:

Contract: GC

Entry Signal: Long

Entry Price: 1402.6 (green triangle)

Exit Price: 1403.6 (red triangle) Target

Entry Time: 6:40 PST

Ticks: +10

 

 

Trade Results: 8 Trades. 7 Wins / 1 Loss. Ratio: 87.5%. Ticks: +56

[Patuca 13]

Trade:

Contract: GC

Entry Signal: Long

Entry Price: 1402.6 (green triangle)

Exit Price: 1403.6 (red triangle) Target

Entry Time: 6:40 PST

Ticks: +10

 

 

Trade Results: 8 Trades. 7 Wins / 1 Loss. Ratio: 87.5%. Ticks: +56

Zzzz..zzzzz.. Yes? ...zzzz...zzz what? Did you say wake up a J Ross trade just took place....did you get it on video...zzzz...i'm going back to sleep...zzzz..zzz..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Well done mr handle...pay no attention to patucas humor. He is at the complete idiot level you know..per zdo..

 

Patuca

[tradingwizzard 10]

Zzzz..zzzzz.. Yes? ...zzzz...zzz what? Did you say wake up a J Ross trade just took place....did you get it on video...zzzz...i'm going back to sleep...zzzz..zzz..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Well done mr handle...pay no attention to patucas humor. He is at the complete idiot level you know..per zdo..

 

Patuca

 

have to work more than that to even consider a raise :rofl:

[Patuca 13]

have to work more than that to even consider a raise :rofl:

LOL LOL :rofl: :rofl:

[bobcollett 10]

OK handle

Enough

You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

Explain your entry / exit strategy and I will teach you the Ambush method.

regards

bobc

[Patuca 13]

have to work more than that to even consider a raise :rofl:

I thought you were the founder..now you are a super moderator? Does anyone ever notice these changes besides me? I thought traders were supposed to be an observant bunch? :haha:

[handle 10]

Trade:

Contract: GC

Entry Signal: Short

Entry Price: 1393.3 (red triangle)

Exit Price: 1392.3 (green triangle) Target

Entry Time: 6:22 PST

Ticks: +10

 

 

Trade Results: 9 Trades. 8 Wins / 1 Loss. Ratio: 88.9%. Ticks: +66

[handle 10]

OK handle

Enough

You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

Explain your entry / exit strategy and I will teach you the Ambush method.

regards

bobc

 

bobc,

 

I'm sorry bobc but the purpose of this thread is to help me stay disciplined and not to teach or share the setups. You are welcome to contact Joe Ross yourself but I have no permission to share his methods publicly.

 

Are you having success with the Ambush method? Do you post your trading log anywhere so we can see how you perform with it?

 

Thank you,

 

Tony

[handle 10]

Zzzz..zzzzz.. Yes? ...zzzz...zzz what? Did you say wake up a J Ross trade just took place....did you get it on video...zzzz...i'm going back to sleep...zzzz..zzz..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Well done mr handle...pay no attention to patucas humor. He is at the complete idiot level you know..per zdo..

 

Patuca

 

Patuca,

 

Wake up. There was another!

 

mr handle

[handle 10]

have to work more than that to even consider a raise :rofl:

 

tradingwizzard,

 

I would like to make more trades but this approach is slow and steady. I am able to feed my family on it. But if you see setups that I am missing, please share.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

[bobcollett 10]

bobc,

 

I'm sorry bobc but the purpose of this thread is to help me stay disciplined and not to teach or share the setups. You are welcome to contact Joe Ross yourself but I have no permission to share his methods publicly.

 

Are you having success with the Ambush method? Do you post your trading log anywhere so we can see how you perform with it?

 

Thank you,

 

Tony

 

Hi handle

No problem with the disclosures.Your method is nonsense.Nothing personal.

You can determine my performance on the Gold thread.

You might even want to change your method after reading about Gann trading.

regards

bobc

[tradingwizzard 10]

keep it cool guys....I know nothing about Joe Ross or what the heck is the name, but if I see a good pattern/strategy you have my attention......for far I didn't, but, Tony, please keep post them as I will look into the subject and let you know my findings.......

[Patuca 13]

Patuca,

 

Wake up. There was another!

 

mr handle

oh ...yawn....you just won't let me sleep..will you?

 

One thing mr handle you are 8/1. Maybe 9/1 soon so if it is nonsense it has a high win rate...all you have to do is up size and some decent money can be made...

 

 

Question for all traders: is it easier to predict probable price 5 miniues from now or one day from now? Or is it equallly as difficult?

 

Patuca

[bobcollett 10]

oh ...yawn....you just won't let me sleep..will you?

 

One thing mr handle you are 8/1. Maybe 9/1 soon so if it is nonsense it has a high win rate...all you have to do is up size and some decent money can be made...

 

 

Question for all traders: is it easier to predict probable price 5 miniues from now or one day from now? Or is it equallly as difficult?

 

Patuca

 

Hi Patuca

Its much easier to predict the price 5 minutes from now.

You dont lose so much money when you are wrong

regards

bobc

[tradingwizzard 10]

You dont lose so much money when you are wrong

 

bobc

 

it depends on your stop loss

[Patuca 13]

Consider this: the longer time frame the more variables enter into the picture.. War...news...traders sentiment...fed reserve....hft jolts...algo's..etc.

 

A cursory look to the left will have a high probability of telling you where prices will go in the next five minutes...therefore, why do so many want to make big gains by attempting to play for larger moves? The larger moves, by definition, are harder to "anticipate" (since the word "predict" sends many traders into mental convulsions) thus causing the probability of success to be less. I know one is looking for a bigger RR thinkng higher RR is the key to mega $$$ rolling in to ones account. However, once one gets REALLY GOOD at anticipating 5 minute moves it is entirely possible to have an actual RR of 8:1 or 10:1 and on top of that a high win rate.

 

Consider this: a trader only has to average a consistent 2 points per day in the ES and simply up the size to 5 lots. In a year he will have made 120,000.00 - 24,000.00 aproxRT commisions assuming 4 trades per day to get the 2 points. In actuality, many days 1 trade will get the 2 points but just saying if it takes up to 4 trades to net 400.00 per day trading 5 lots. Point to be made is several fold.

 

First, It is easier to anticipate a 1 or 2 point move in the ES over the next 5 to 15 minutes than a 10 to 15 point daily move.

 

Second, you can mathematically have a very good positive traders equation and a very good RR once you get sharp at predicting 2 point moves on 5 minute chart.

 

Third, it is achievable to have a very high win rate doing this.

 

Fourth, many days there will be 4 or 5 or more points gained which will more than make up for losing days.

 

Now, throw in the NQ together with ES and trading 5 lots and capturing 5 point moves (net) day...add this to the points net on the ES......well you get the picture....

 

 

It is easier to make many base hits than home runs in the markets...

 

Of course, I am at the complete idiot level so you might want to take what i say with a grain of salt. It certainly isn't for everyone but with those so inclined it just might work for them if they can get good at it. Many times the points can be made within 30 minutes of the open....

 

Just another dipstick viewpoint.....

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Consider this: the longer time frame the more variables enter into the picture.. War...news...traders sentiment...fed reserve....hft jolts...algo's..etc.

 

A cursory look to the left will have a high probability of telling you where prices will go in the next five minutes...therefore, why do so many want to make big gains by attempting to play for larger moves? The larger moves, by definition, are harder to "anticipate" (since the word "predict" sends many traders into mental convulsions) thus causing the probability of success to be less. I know one is looking for a bigger RR thinkng higher RR is the key to mega $$$ rolling in to ones account. However, once one gets REALLY GOOD at anticipating 5 minute moves it is entirely possible to have an actual RR of 8:1 or 10:1 and on top of that a high win rate.

 

Consider this: a trader only has to average a consistent 2 points per day in the ES and simply up the size to 5 lots. In a year he will have made 120,000.00 - 24,000.00 aproxRT commisions assuming 4 trades per day to get the 2 points. In actuality, many days 1 trade will get the 2 points but just saying if it takes up to 4 trades to net 400.00 per day trading 5 lots. Point to be made is several fold.

 

First, It is easier to anticipate a 1 or 2 point move in the ES over the next 5 to 15 minutes than a 10 to 15 point daily move.

 

Second, you can mathematically have a very good positive traders equation and a very good RR once you get sharp at predicting 2 point moves on 5 minute chart.

 

Third, it is achievable to have a very high win rate doing this.

 

Fourth, many days there will be 4 or 5 or more points gained which will more than make up for losing days.

 

Now, throw in the NQ together with ES and trading 5 lots and capturing 5 point moves (net) day...add this to the points net on the ES......well you get the picture....

 

 

It is easier to make many base hits than home runs in the markets...

 

Of course, I am at the complete idiot level so you might want to take what i say with a grain of salt. It certainly isn't for everyone but with those so inclined it just might work for them if they can get good at it. Many times the points can be made within 30 minutes of the open....

 

Just another dipstick viewpoint.....

 

Hi Patuca,

 

I disagree with this, although I have respect for the argument you make.

 

Certainly, if you can predict short term price movements with any accuracy then, to put it simply, you'll have a much smoother ride than any longer term trader. If this weren't the case, then all those HFT firms wouldn't bother.

 

But is this possible? If not, then the very first premise of your argument is flawed . . .

 

The more variables that enter into the picture (especially those with high granularity as opposed to major fundamental events like wars), then the more "smoothed" their effect will be. If you look at a weekly chart and there's an uptrend, then this uptrend is the result of opinion in spite of whatever short term fluctuations the influences you list may generate.

 

The shorter the timeframe, the lower the signal to noise ratio.

 

For me, this has a clear consequence: you can trade against short term noise in favour of the long term trend.

 

Example: long term uptrend but news (it's just noise) causes a three day sell-off = buy.

 

Example: long term downtrend but war (it's just noise) causes a brief rally = short.

 

Trade the trend, and fade the noise for great entries!

 

As soon as you move to intraday the difficulty is that the trend (?) is just the noise from the higher timeframes. I imagine there is some sophisticated way to assemble all this (some incredibly complex fractal hedging in multiple timeframes?), but I have stopped looking for it - end of day works well enough.

 

The point should also be made (so I'll make it!) that I may just be cynical because shorter term trading isn't something I myself have had any success with.

 

Finally, a R:R of 1:1 is fine if you have a high win rate.

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Patuca 13]

Hi Patuca,

 

I disagree with this, although I have respect for the argument you make.

 

Certainly, if you can predict short term price movements with any accuracy then, to put it simply, you'll have a much smoother ride than any longer term trader. If this weren't the case, then all those HFT firms wouldn't bother.

 

But is this possible? If not, then the very first premise of your argument is flawed . . .

 

The more variables that enter into the picture (especially those with high granularity as opposed to major fundamental events like wars), then the more "smoothed" their effect will be. If you look at a weekly chart and there's an uptrend, then this uptrend is the result of opinion in spite of whatever short term fluctuations the influences you list may generate.

 

The shorter the timeframe, the lower the signal to noise ratio.

 

For me, this has a clear consequence: you can trade against short term noise in favour of the long term trend.

 

Example: long term uptrend but news (it's just noise) causes a three day sell-off = buy.

 

Example: long term downtrend but war (it's just noise) causes a brief rally = short.

 

Trade the trend, and fade the noise for great entries!

 

As soon as you move to intraday the difficulty is that the trend (?) is just the noise from the higher timeframes. I imagine there is some sophisticated way to assemble all this (some incredibly complex fractal hedging in multiple timeframes?), but I have stopped looking for it - end of day works well enough.

 

The point should also be made (so I'll make it!) that I may just be cynical because shorter term trading isn't something I myself have had any success with.

 

Finally, a R:R of 1:1 is fine if you have a high win rate.

 

BlueHorseshoe

Like i said it isn't for everyone. A RR 1:1 is bare min. Many times i get RR Like 8:1, 9:1 and more. It all comes down to precise picking where actual risk is so low that it makes the RR ratio very high. Many times, probally aprox 30%, of my trades end up having a 0 risk. Many more end up have a .25 pt or .50 pt actual risk.

 

For instance, say i make 4 points on an ES TRADE. Say after entry the market only actually goes against me by .25 pts before giving me the 4 pts. What is my actual RR ratio? See what i mean?

 

However, initial risk should be at least with a RR 1:1 and better if 2:1 because depending on skills in picking trades math can still take a trader to the cleaners...and will on bad initial RR.

 

High actual RR in short term trading is indicative of good precise picking of trades. In the end what counts mathematically in terms of risks and an account growing is ones actual risk as opposed to ones initial risk. Actual RR ratio trumps initial RR IMO. Math is relentless and in the end determines an account growing or being whittled away.

 

Long term trading generally has a 40% probability of success. Short term can be 60% or 70% and at times more. I actually have a very high win rate.

 

I understand what you are saying on noise. My argument is that noise can be anticipated and is actually easier to predict than longer term price action...because of the fact that it is noise and shows up a such in a chart...that is why reversion systems work on the ES for short term trading...it tends to revert quiet often...

 

Plus on short term trading with size you can make your money and be done very quickly for the day. Many times in the first hour of trading. Not so with end of day trading.

 

My thinking on it is thus: the longer I am in the markets the more risks i assume in terms of probabilities of the market going against me as time slithers by (not dollar risk as that is fixed if i don't move my SL). I am ONLY at risk when i am in the market.

 

Anyway there are generally several ways to skin a cat.......so to speak.....trading also needs to fit ones personality...glad EOD works good for you.. Not sure i could handle it. My main point is that not trying for big move does not exclude one making good money from the markets. Paul Rotter comes to mind who made 65 million or more per year for 10 years scalping 2 to 5 ticks. But again that kind of trading isn't for everyone. I personally like to scalp 1 to 4 points and occasionally will let it run more if PA doesn't indicate large pullbacks. The larger scalps i call swing scalps (when more than one leg..i.e. i hold thru at east one PB)

Edited September 5, 2013 by Patuca

[bobcollett 10]

Well there you have it.

Two well written posts .......Mr Patuca , on scalping/ short term trading

And Mr Horseshoes on longer term/ end of day trading.

Maybe this should be moved to a new thread to allow others to comment

regards

bobc

[Patuca 13]

Sorry handle did not mean to your thread..blog... ...carry on....Patuca

 

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OOhvX9JQ_WI[/ame]

[handle 10]

Sorry handle did not mean to your thread..blog... ...carry on....Patuca

 

Kansas Carry on my Wayward son Lyrics. - YouTube

 

Thank you for being considerate.

 

Tony

[handle 10]

Trade:

Contract: GC

Entry Signal: Short

Entry Price: 1391.6 (red triangle)

Exit Price: 1390.6 (green triangle) Target

Entry Time: 5:50 A.M. (PST)

Ticks: +10

 

 

 

Trade Results: 10 Trades. 9 Wins / 1 Loss. Ratio: 90%. Ticks: +76

[tradingwizzard 10]

Trade:

Contract: CL

Entry Signal: Short

Entry Price: 106.13 (red triangle)

Exit Price: 106.03 (green triangle) Target

Entry Time: 8:00 AM CST

Ticks: +10

 

 

Trade Results: 2 Trades. 2 Wins / 0 Losses. Ratio: 100%. Ticks: +20

 

quick question and I admit I didn't read all the answers on the thread......is the entry being made at the opening of the candle?

[tradingwizzard 10]

meaning bar, not candle.....:crap: