Trading Mindsets is 80 % of Success

[zdo 20]

the intellectal of non misinformation that lurk on forums

 

 

 

in a world where information matters and its truthfullness doesn’t , mercun means https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=+m...L8bF7AbH74GQCQ

…bbbut doesn’t mean https://www.google.com/#q=mercun+

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

… ps …mercun is jank for American… be careful

Nature Publishing Group : science journals, jobs, and information

 

CBS DC

 

Retraction Watch | Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process

 

Latest news, world news, sport and comment from the Guardian | theguardian.com | The Guardian

 

re: “‘cover up’ / obfuscate / cloud your access”

science talks… a word like ‘biases’ will be described as if it is the center of the constructs everyone should utilize… when actually it is helpful to only a few, neutral to most, and harmful to some… be careful…

 

 

 

pps

 

re statements like "seeking profits, not truth"

c’mon peeps -if truth doesn’t matter to you any more, why would you ever bother to post in this thread?

 

Unveiling The Delusion Of Disruption - disinformation

[SIUYA 11]

Zdo - I like Mr Bass, and denial is strong in the human race, so is optimism - we need them both to survive.

 

however we should not forget the old saying which still reigns true....

 

"borrow $1mil and cant repay, you are in trouble.....borrow $100mil and cant repay its the lender who is in trouble"

[Guest OILFXPRO]

I have added more reasons why mindsets is more important and is 80 % accountable for trader success.

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/psychology/16031-why-traders-continue-fail-when-they-10.html#post185865

 

Most people find it difficult to follow rules

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op9D2SsIfGE]Develop Your Mental Edge by Dr. Andrew Menaker - YouTube[/ame]

 

BenchMark Trader - forex, âàëóòíà òúðãîâèÿ, àêöèè, èíäåêñè, ïåòðîë, çëàòî, îïöèè

[wmck6167 10]

If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.

– Warren Buffett

 

If discipline was all there was to the stock trading, would the Wall Street be occupied all by soldiers?

 

Cheers and have a fun in trading.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.

– Warren Buffett

 

If discipline was all there was to the stock trading, would the Wall Street be occupied all by soldiers?

 

Cheers and have a fun in trading.

 

No .There is more to trading than just discipline.It is the test of character . phsyche and resilience of the individual.Traders have to use their brains on multiple tasks simultaenously .

 

Training the mind is not the only task that needs to make a successful trader , the trading job is several jobs put together and all these other skills need to be gained.These skills and jobs include the jobs of chartists , analyst , buddhist monk (meditation), trader , risk manager , researcher ,systems developer , tester , masochist , psychologist ,trainer , mathematician ,antagonist (fighting the trading gold rush merchants selling picks ,shovels and maps to the trading gold) ,emotional regulator ,hunter/stalker ,programmer and trade executor .

 

Go to Goldman Sachs and they will have different psychologists , chartists , traders , analysts , risk managers , researchers , trainers and coaches .Go to a hospital , you will see receptionist , nurse , registrar ,doctor , surgeon specialist , radiographer ,supervisor and other specialists.We are expecting a one man band to do all those jobs simultaneously .

 

Science facts: Our brains are bombarded by an estimated 2,000,000 bits of information every second. Processing such a huge amount of information would cause the brain to “freeze”. Therefore, we delete, distort and generalise most of it down to around 134 bits of information.What this means is that we choose only a tiny proportion of the total amount that is available to us, and those 134 bits of information we allow in to our brains are the things that determine what we call reality.Most traders will continue to fail , as we are not capable of doing several jobs at the same time , and react in nano seconds and execute trades perfectly with precise timing .In hindsight all patterns and all trading looked okay , in real time it does not work .

 

Trading requires experience and successful trading is learnt by intuition , because you need the experience to know when to be in the market and when not to , you need to avoid profitable set ups as the risk is greater in certain situations.

 

 

Multiple tasks and jobs create distractions and lack of clear focus , your mind is overloaded to work effectively.Overload creates fatigue and loss of focus.The demands of watching the screen hour after hour make it difficult to be sharp, creating fatigue effects that are well-known to pilots, car drivers, and soldiers

 

Most traders brains are overloaded , Many traders freeze in real time , and suffer uncertainty and past history , and are unable to trade effectively.

[MightyMouse 12]

No .There is more to trading than just discipline.It is the test of character . phsyche and resilience of the individual.Traders have to use their brains on multiple tasks simultaenously .

 

These skills and jobs include the jobs of chartists , analyst , buddhist monk (meditation), trader , risk manager , researcher ,systems developer , tester , masochist , psychologist ,trainer , mathematician ,antagonist (fighting the trading gold rush merchants selling picks ,shovels and maps to the trading gold) ,emotional regulator ,hunter/stalker ,programmer and trade executor .

 

 

I always thought those bald guys in robes sitting crisscross apple sauce were contemplating emptiness. Now I realize that, instead, they are planning their next trade.

[wmck6167 10]

No .There is more to trading than just discipline.It is the test of character . phsyche and resilience of the individual.Traders have to use their brains on multiple tasks simultaenously .

 

 

Trading requires experience and successful trading is learnt by intuition ....

 

You seems to know a lot in this trading world. If the trading can be learnt by intuition, will the success for an intuition trader to be the lucky? I would like to listen to your opinions regarding to how to justify a successful trader? or or even a nature-born trader? Tks.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

You seems to know a lot in this trading world. If the trading can be learnt by intuition, will the success for an intuition trader to be the lucky? I would like to listen to your opinions regarding to how to justify a successful trader? or or even a nature-born trader? Tks.

 

 

The instituitional trader is highly educated and a quick learner , he has done a degree or two and often been picked from a top university .He has quality people around him of a high calibre , and he starts on an already establised path/system/structure of on organisation.Thry have limited skills , but the total skills of the team around them are encouraging.

 

It has more to do with luck than skill .The educated idiots happened to be in the right place at the right time.Most actress jobs go to the lady sitting on the producer's laps and in the financial industry you need to sit on Goldman's lap.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Most people are not successful when it comes to trading. Why?

 

I can answer that question on a number of levels. At the most basic level, people must trade by processing information. Unfortunately, we're not very efficient information processors. We have a lot of biases which enter into trading decisions.Our brains are bombarded by an estimated 2,000,000 bits of information every second. Processing such a huge amount of information would cause the brain to “freeze”.Traders have to use their brains to process information on multiple tasks simultaenously .

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brain+processing+information&client=firefox-a&hs=lQ2&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=np&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Crw-UqTUCcnX0QXM_IGIAw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=598&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=6MUwSNsC3PLefM%3A%3BHVJUEJ26vt1rJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcdn.articulate.com%252Fimages%252Fblogs%252Frel%252Fuploads%252F2007%252F10%252Fbrain32.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.articulate.com%252Frapid-elearning%252Fhow-to-get-your-learners-to-remember-more%252F%3B550%3B392

 

Trading Psychology Expert Van Tharp

[johnw 10]

No .There is more to trading than just discipline.It is the test of character . phsyche and resilience of the individual.Traders have to use their brains on multiple tasks simultaenously .

............................................................................................................

Most traders brains are overloaded , Many traders freeze in real time , and suffer uncertainty and past history , and are unable to trade effectively.

 

gm OILFXPRO,

 

You have just written the ROAD TO FAILURE ..

 

Now how about balancing this well written piece by writing THE ROAD TO SUCCESS.

[MightyMouse 12]

The instituitional trader is highly educated and a quick learner , he has done a degree or two and often been picked from a top university .He has quality people around him of a high calibre , and he starts on an already establised path/system/structure of on organisation.Thry have limited skills , but the total skills of the team around them are encouraging.

 

It has more to do with luck than skill .The educated idiots happened to be in the right place at the right time.Most actress jobs go to the lady sitting on the producer's laps and in the financial industry you need to sit on Goldman's lap.

 

I really do not think you know how an institutional trader trades or what their function is at a trading firm.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

I really do not think you know how an institutional trader trades or what their function is at a trading firm.

 

Do they actually trade or do they rob pensions or assets under management by repacking toilet paper cdos?They nick a few points off every trade that goes in with hft.I am glad you know and I don't know.

 

Jeff Schweitzer: The Big Lie Exposed: Wall Street as Institutionalized Fraud

[Guest OILFXPRO]

gm OILFXPRO,

 

You have just written the ROAD TO FAILURE ..

 

Now how about balancing this well written piece by writing THE ROAD TO SUCCESS.

 

I don't know when , but when that happens , I will be too busy spending it.Here is how mindsets affect the trader putting on entries , here the trader misses the entry looking for a channel to enter.The entire week's profit thrown away.The idiot is still looking for an entry.

 

It is not the system , trading is 80 % the phucked mindsets of traders.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

I always thought those bald guys in robes sitting crisscross apple sauce were contemplating emptiness. Now I realize that, instead, they are planning their next trade.

[ATTACH]37066[/ATTACH]

 

He does not make his money from trading , on this occasion he is trying to meditate away from any trading.

 

He possibly makes his money being a guru , mentor , trading educator selling price action courses , systems , eas , indicators ,operating forums , advertising , writing books from free material on the internet or acting or pretending to be a trader.

 

He is certainly not trading , but meditating away from trading.

[zupcon 10]

Most people are not successful when it comes to trading. Why?

 

Most people are not successful at anything.

 

Most people starting a business fail. Most people fail to get a decent education, most people in employment fail to achieve promotions etc, most people can't play football, etc etc

 

There's no shortage of stories about the majority of traders failing even when playing a simulated game with positive expectancy, and they fail for all of the usual reasons, discussed ad nauseam

 

Why would anyone want this to change ?

[zdo 20]

Most people are not successful at anything.

 

Most people starting a business fail. Most people fail to get a decent education, most people in employment fail to achieve promotions etc, most people can't play football, etc etc

 

There's no shortage of stories about the majority of traders failing even when playing a simulated game with positive expectancy, and they fail for all of the usual reasons, discussed ad nauseam

 

Why would anyone want this to change ?

 

Great post, zupcon

 

Re: failure

To succeed you must first improve

To improve you must first practice

To practice you must first learn

To learn you must first fail

 

And

Re “Why would anyone want this to change ?”

Peeps really don’t want this to change. But these ‘anyones’ do want to change their own level from generalized failure to generalized success. They work on 'themselves' and / or their skills – and not necessarily in that order…Most of the ppl. who are ‘working’ on their trading ‘believe’ themselves (correctly or incorrectly) to be at or near the threshold of success … and many of them turn to the promises of ‘self improvement’, ‘real’ psychology, ‘pop’ psychology, neuroscience, etc, etc…to maybe fix that mindset. … generally, to maybe fix that neural net ... "it's all good "

 

 

(… and ‘fixing’ the neural net - at least getting real performance increases out of the neural net work is possible .… but, in my own long journey, I’ve discovered a factor that is so neglected, yet it makes the difference btwn whether ‘neural net’ work is virtually impossible and unproductive or relatively seamless… I’ve threatened several times to write an article about it… but haven’t been convinced even one person in here would really benefit from it... maybe someday...)

Edited September 23, 2013 by zdo
many of them turn to the promises

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Most people are not successful at anything.

 

Most people starting a business fail. Most people fail to get a decent education, most people in employment fail to achieve promotions etc, most people can't play football, etc etc

 

There's no shortage of stories about the majority of traders failing even when playing a simulated game with positive expectancy, and they fail for all of the usual reasons, discussed ad nauseam

 

Why would anyone want this to change ?

 

we are comparing non footballers with being professional footballers , it requires one to be be skilled

[daytrader50 10]

We'd like to believe trading is 805 mindset so it makes the thought of being a pro easier to believe. I am telling you now as a 15yr+ veteran. Its BS. It sells a looooot of books and courses. Ever notice all the software and courses they sell all tell you "Once you have the mindset down" the rest comes with time>" More BS! Does that mean if we all meditate and take lessons in zen we can become pro sports players not in our chosen sport...but in ANY sport? Of course not. Still think its true? You can PM me and if I have time I can tell you more.

[zupcon 10]

We'd like to believe trading is 805 mindset so it makes the thought of being a pro easier to believe. I am telling you now as a 15yr+ veteran. Its BS. It sells a looooot of books and courses. Ever notice all the software and courses they sell all tell you "Once you have the mindset down" the rest comes with time>" More BS! Does that mean if we all meditate and take lessons in zen we can become pro sports players not in our chosen sport...but in ANY sport? Of course not. Still think its true? You can PM me and if I have time I can tell you more.

 

I think there's two ways in which the importance of psychology manifests itself. In the first instance, right at the start of the journey it's psychology that differentiates those prepared to put in the work, from those looking for easy answers. It's the same in sport, people need tenacity and determination to put in the training to differentiate themselves above those with similar levels of natural talent. That's the barrier that stops the significant majority from succeeding

 

If we take sports, then its beyond doubt that psychology can have a major impact on performance, and that's applicable across all levels of skill, from school children to Olympic athletes

 

In my limited experience, I've always found that traders who took the time to develop their own edges, struggled less with psychological issues than those who don't. Having said that I'm concluding this from a very small sample size.

 

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation. ZDO's comment is getting somewhere closer to the truth. However its the" failing in order to learn" bit that causes the practical difficulties

 

To succeed you must improve

To improve you must practice

To practice you must first learn

To learn you must first fail

 

I don't want to get too off topic but most traders of my acquaintance wouldn't know if they where failing or not. They equate failure with a reduction in their account balance, which given the complexity of the task we are undertaking, isn't necessarily the right dependent variable that should be observed.

 

In addition, the RANDOM distribution of gains and losses make the evaluation of failure or success more difficult to gauge

 

A series of trades which looks like WWWWWWW may possibly be just as much of a failure as a series of trades which looks like LLLLLLLLL

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Myeperience is similiar to this economist ...as per my first post in this thread.

Edited October 25, 2013 by OILFXPRO

[Guest OILFXPRO]

I just fired two more idiots acting like in the first post.They had demons in their heads , that led to execution errors.

[johnw 10]

I think there's two ways in which the importance of psychology manifests itself. In the first instance, right at the start of the journey it's psychology that differentiates those prepared to put in the work, from those looking for easy answers. It's the same in sport, people need tenacity and determination to put in the training to differentiate themselves above those with similar levels of natural talent. That's the barrier that stops the significant majority from succeeding

 

If we take sports, then its beyond doubt that psychology can have a major impact on performance, and that's applicable across all levels of skill, from school children to Olympic athletes

 

In my limited experience, I've always found that traders who took the time to develop their own edges, struggled less with psychological issues than those who don't. Having said that I'm concluding this from a very small sample size.

 

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation. ZDO's comment is getting somewhere closer to the truth. However its the" failing in order to learn" bit that causes the practical difficulties

 

To succeed you must improve

To improve you must practice

To practice you must first learn

To learn you must first fail

 

I don't want to get too off topic but most traders of my acquaintance wouldn't know if they where failing or not. They equate failure with a reduction in their account balance, which given the complexity of the task we are undertaking, isn't necessarily the right dependent variable that should be observed.

 

In addition, the RANDOM distribution of gains and losses make the evaluation of failure or success more difficult to gauge

 

A series of trades which looks like WWWWWWW may possibly be just as much of a failure as a series of trades which looks like LLLLLLLLL

 

Nice piece of work Zupcon ..very nice indeed.

 

If People come into trading with no prior experience of what it takes to struggle and persevere in an individual effort such as Arts, Sport, Disability/Injury then they will naturally take the course of trying to match their academic firepower against the Market.

I don't think that it is arrogance that causes this, but rather it is the result of a complete and utter lack of understanding of how we function as Humans and what our potential really is.

 

I thought your posts were very clear and refreshing .... "most people fail"

Edited September 30, 2013 by johnw

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Most people are not successful at anything.

 

Most people starting a business fail. Most people fail to get a decent education, most people in employment fail to achieve promotions etc, most people can't play football, etc etc

 

There's no shortage of stories about the majority of traders failing even when playing a simulated game with positive expectancy, and they fail for all of the usual reasons, discussed ad nauseam

 

Why would anyone want this to change ?

 

That is not a like for like comparison , compare it wit h doctors , accountants ,plumbers , shopkeepers etc

 

traders suffer from anylysis paralysis

 

Analysis paralysis is when you analyze every small move, compare with a long history of movements, and basically just analyze over and over again, without placing a trade for ages due to fear of losses etc

 

Do other professions suffer analysis paralysis or head issues in real time ?

[SIUYA 11]

 

Do other professions suffer analysis paralysis or head issues in real time ?

 

ever had or heard of......

 

a doctor with no bedside manner?

a nurse that forgets to check something, but gets away with it.

a miss diagnosis

 

a plumber who fixes a leak but does not fix it.

a restaurant that closes down after 3 months, 3 years, 5 years

a builder who quotes a job and then cuts corners

 

an accountant who gives you advice that turns out to be wrong

a politician that gives an answer because it political expedient or popular rather than dealing with the problem.

 

......the only difference IMHO is that trading gives immediate results - pass, fail and that you cant hide from it except through deceipt and denial.

 

If you dont think that most other professions have high failure rates and poor decision making then you are living in denial. Most other professions if you deal with them long enough from a traders perspective simply dont admit they are wrong as often they pass on the risks to their clients.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Herebelow are real examples of trading idiots and idiocyand how many screw up in real time execution.There might be something to learn for some reader and maybe quite true for many trading failures.

 

.

 

Most traders screw up in real time due to missed trades , timing is out . execution errors . second guessing systems and set ups , using biasis not to enter trades , unable to accept a loss and running losses and adding to losing positions , personality traits , fear , greed , emotions , revenge trades , misreading charts , etc etc etc

 

The easiest one is cockups in execution in real time.

Edited October 25, 2013 by OILFXPRO