Trading Mindsets is 80 % of Success

[Guest OILFXPRO]

you mean trading can be tought? ....aren't you supposed to have the necessary skills?

 

Trading is the hardest profession to be taught , but it can be split into several different tasks for several people , it can enabled to be done profitably.There are too many tasks on a trader's mind to cope with , to trade profitably and successfully.Trading is a multi task job done under stress and duress and the psyche part can not be taught or mental skills are difficult to master.

[tradingwizzard 10]

what is wrong with you? ....you have a profitable system and you need a coach to help you do what?....can't you deal with yourself?

[SIUYA 11]

I have spent 3 years of my life on developing automated systems , and I have 44 expert profitable advisors , so knowledge on this subject is good .Trading is an art , the art can be best traded by visualization .A picture is worth a thousand words , and trading set ups are worth thousands of words , with context and confluence , by the time the codes are input , there are too many conflicting lines of code to make it work with precise entries and timing.In fact computers work on historical information , by the time the set up appears valid on a software , the information does not allow precisely timed entries..

 

There are so many contradictions here ....its confusing.

You have 44 profitable automated strategies - but you cant use them on a computer?

You need context, there are too many conflicting lines of code and by the time a computer picks it up its too late???........by the time the codes are input....ummmm???

 

That would mean they are not automated, they require a lot of discretion and hence you are back where you started. Having to hire people not to follow rules but to allow for context and discretion.

Plus I thought previously you thought people were unable to process the information in the markets.... and hence the original post?

 

 

 

As regards the the pay and staff , I am taking on a fifth person to oversee the the other four.This is working reasonably at present and should progress this week.after training.

 

Once the above is set up and running by itself , I want to rent an office in London and work with a private coach /trader , here I unveil my £2k profit per day trading method.That is £500 k profit annually(without compounding) on a £100 k account ( my backer wired already ).I want a trainer /mentor during live stressful pip match , to help me stay disciplined during the pip fights.

 

 

Oilfx

 

Again confusing....

Its working, but you dont yet have an office

once its setup and running by itself....then you unveil your method....WTF??:spam:

Your backer --- I thought you were the backer?...

You want a trainer to stay disciplined - I thought the automated strategies were easy to follow any idiot could do it.... ---- what about the other four plus overseer?

Already I think you have blown most of your winning trading budget on data, computers, office, salaries, trainer, overseers.

 

 

............................

I am always happy to give the benefit of the doubt that you are not scamming anything, but the only other option I can conclude from this is that you are a dreamer. (nothing wrong with that, but dreams and trading are a dangerous mix)

 

Not to discourage you but you might want to give this some more thought before committing money to such a venture.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

There are so many contradictions here ....its confusing.

You have 44 profitable automated strategies - but you cant use them on a computer?

You need context, there are too many conflicting lines of code and by the time a computer picks it up its too late???........by the time the codes are input....ummmm???

 

That would mean they are not automated, they require a lot of discretion and hence you are back where you started. Having to hire people not to follow rules but to allow for context and discretion.

Plus I thought previously you thought people were unable to process the information in the markets.... and hence the original post?

 

 

 

 

 

Again confusing....

Its working, but you dont yet have an office

once its setup and running by itself....then you unveil your method....WTF??:spam:

Your backer --- I thought you were the backer?...

You want a trainer to stay disciplined - I thought the automated strategies were easy to follow any idiot could do it.... ---- what about the other four plus overseer?

Already I think you have blown most of your winning trading budget on data, computers, office, salaries, trainer, overseers.

 

 

............................

I am always happy to give the benefit of the doubt that you are not scamming anything, but the only other option I can conclude from this is that you are a dreamer. (nothing wrong with that, but dreams and trading are a dangerous mix)

 

Not to discourage you but you might want to give this some more thought before committing money to such a venture.

 

The automated systems I have made 20 % a year , but in last 4 years returns have dropped to 10 % , so they are hardly worth trading.........day in day out for a meager 10 % a year.I don't use them.

 

The system has been unveiled to the 4 staff who work online from abroad , in my skype room and on team viewer.They work remotely as remote assistants.I also want an office in London for the next stage , where you are my trainer and mentor , whilst I am slugging pips and punches with the market .Your reward will be 20 % of my $500k.

 

Are you ready for this , or are you going to pull me two steps back , every time I go I step forward?Do you know what I have or don't you ?If u have not realized it , you are not fit to be my trainer in the pips slugging ring,Either you want to sit behind me or on Zuppy"s lap and we can be gay and happy.

 

Last week I made 100 pips , the assistants made 30 pips , so the cost is recovered by the pips they make .My target using three systems is 250 pips a week , to pay for the assistants and give me a profit.

 

It is easy to make 20 pips a day @ $100 per pip or $10,000 per week or $500 k a year.

 

Already I have blown my budget on data , overseer and other 4 tells me you do not have a clue about my trading.

 

I will hire you today , if you can demonstrate proof of your qualities on paper actual trade results .I will give you 20 % of my profits , paid every week by direct debit to your account.

 

You do not know , that I can buy you and your services with just a wink.If you need a beaver , I will throw in Zupcon as your bait , both of u will be merry and happy.

Edited July 20, 2013 by OILFXPRO

[SIUYA 11]

Do you know what I have or don't you ?

.................

You do not know , that I can buy you and your services with just a wink.If you need a beaver , I will throw in Zupcon as your bait , both of u will be merry and happy.

 

I appreciate the response, but I just disagree with you in what you think you have, and your last comment tells me all I need.

Good luck and good bye.

[zupcon 10]

The automated systems I have made 20 % a year , but in last 4 years returns have dropped to 10 % , so they are hardly worth trading.........day in day out for a meager 10 % a year.I don't use them.

 

What's the max drawdown on those systems ?

[Guest OILFXPRO]

What's the max drawdown on those systems ?

 

10 % .

 

If I tripled my risk to 30 % , then possibly earn 30 % .The manual trading ,with human assistants instead of robots , has 10 % draw down and reward of 75 % plus , the cost of humans being 15 %., triple the risk and you get 225 %.vs 30 %.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

I appreciate the response, but I just disagree with you in what you think you have, and your last comment tells me all I need.

Good luck and good bye.

 

Good luck to you as well .I just trained a complete new trader within 3 weeks , he had never traded in his life , he had no knowledge .If someone new can make 120 pips in a day , there is not any trading skills around.

 

He came with a clean mind and skills from another profession.

[Guest m2fs]

It was a bad start to the August series with the Nifty falling for the third successive session Friday,weighed down by PSU banks on rising bad loans and metals stocks.

 

Stock market update:- on Friday market nifty closed down 21.30 points or 0.36% at 5886.20. it was touched high levels 5944.50 and touched low levels 5869.50. the BSE Sensex closed down 56.57 points or 0.29% at 19748.19. it was touched high levels 19907.45 and touched low levels 19699.76. the BSE Midcap and Smallcap down nearly 1 per cent.... Read More

More News:- Nifty future call tomorrow

[Guest OILFXPRO]

If trading was not 80 % psychology , why do we engage in self destructive behavior?

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/forex-trading-laboratory/16508-why-do-people-engage-self-destructive.html

[wmck6167 10]

If trading was not 80 % psychology , why do we engage in self destructive behavior?

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/forex-trading-laboratory/16508-why-do-people-engage-self-destructive.html

 

Trading Mindsets is 80 %. But the 20% part sometimes also can help. For example, focus a better choice to follow…. In this case, I would not like to focus on how to prevent mind go weird from self-destructed or why people do it. I would rather focus on how to build up a righteous attitude and find a root cause why I cannot adapt to a better habit or strategy during trading? So, back to 80% mindset again. Just provide my opinion and Cheers.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Emotions and reactive behaviors are the chief reasons why traders engage in self destructive behaviors.

 

http://www.carlsonschool.umn.edu/assets/128887.pdf

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Despite having a good profitable system , trader is unable to make money .

 

Analysis paralysis

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/trading-psychology/2962-analysis-paralysis-fear-losing.html

 

Analysis Paralysis Definition | Investopedia

[wmck6167 10]

"Emotions and reactive behaviors are the chief reasons why traders engage in self destructive behaviors"

So even in the process destructive, you still need to focus on what’s the right, instead of focus on how to prevent destructive. When your mind looks at the negative direction, you will have a lot of chance to have “Analysis Paralysis” from my point of view.

 

“Despite having a good profitable system ……. In my opinion, I would rethink about it twice from mindset point of view. Are you the one to be “in control to have profitable results” in an interaction system?

 

I am a leaner and new to the world of Game. I may be wrong, but I like to think. Cheers.

[72black 10]

There are hundreds of free systems out there on the internet , and there are thousands of videos for learning systematic stuff , and plenty of free literature on technical analysis..We still have more losers , about 99 % of them .

 

Loads of good articles and videos pointing out why .....mindset is 80 % , despite the presence of all these great systems for free.Our brains are not wired to trade.

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/#sthash.nA0BQjlL.dpbs

 

Psychology

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/#sthash.q4XIhjAk.dpbs

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/#sthash.ZqIR0NRg.dpbs

 

 

This I agree with. Our state of mind is in control of the trade.

 

I personally struggled on shorter time frames due to the desire for action of a work like attitude where actions are rewarded with pay - as I discovered trading is anything but. Now I stand back and trade a longer time (day) which is producing returns I never thought possible as I follow the rules & do not outsmart my systems rules. Over my morning coffee I check positions (did prior to coming here) & look for new entries, correcting as necessary then close my platform. If I sit & stare at my charts my mind will envisage what it wants to see which is dangerous.

 

I studied Van Tharp's Peak Performance (twice to date) & doing this course forced me to take real hard look at myself which not only benefited my trading but also my personal life & outlook. Or was that my personal outlook improved which resulted in better trading? I believe the latter is true.

 

Having a clear mind set without worry over bills & payments due cannot be part of the mindset of trading as this can produce negative influence. I believe a successful trader has zero external influence.

 

We mere humans are by nature hard wired to self protect & trading goes against our natural tendency to self protect as we expose all that we are; overcome this & you will prosper.

 

Do exactly what the chart tells you to do & do not under any circumstances second guess.

[wmck6167 10]

“Having a clear mind set without worry over bills & payments due cannot be part of the mindset of trading as this can produce negative influence. I believe a successful trader has zero external influence. “

 

You are right. But is it a good enduring training and a plus for trading power if you can handle the trades well under this situation? If you worry bills & payment, then you care of your money during your trading with great pressure, in my opinion, it is a good force to make the person successful in the trading process. Furthermore, I can have experience to care my money in my heart, then I would learn to care about other people's money and more risk perceptions in my trading or for other. Am I right?

 

 

“Do exactly what the chart tells you to do & do not under any circumstances second guess. “

I just have a funny question, Do we believe what we see or what we hear in the trading world? Will we be deceived by ourselves or others sometimes? Thanks and Cheers,

[zdo 20]

“Do exactly what the chart tells you to do & do not under any circumstances second guess. “

 

sounds like

 

"The market always tells you what to do. It tells you: Get in. Get out. Move your stop. Close out. Stay neutral. Wait for a better chance. All these things the market is continually impressing upon you, and you must get into the frame of mind where you are in reality taking your orders from the action of the market itself -- from the tape." ~ Richard D. Wyckoff

 

Furthermore, I can have experience to care my money in my heart, then I would learn to care about other people's money and more risk perceptions in my trading or for other. Am I right?

 

Not really... if you cannot fully reconcile and embrace that you are in this game to TAKE opm, then you won't last long

 

 

 

“ I just have a funny question, Do we believe what we see or what we hear in the trading world? Will we be deceived by ourselves or others sometimes? Thanks and Cheers,

 

 

 

"We don’t see things the way they are.

We see things the way we are." Talmud

 

 

 

___________________________________________________________

 

ps Use your will to condition your choices… instead of trying to use your choices to condition your will…

[wmck6167 10]

sounds like

 

"The market always tells you what to do. It tells you: Get in. Get out. Move your stop. Close out. Stay neutral. Wait for a better chance. All these things the market is continually impressing upon you, and you must get into the frame of mind where you are in reality taking your orders from the action of the market itself -- from the tape." ~ Richard D. Wyckoff

 

 

Thanks for your comment. It's great to have chance to know Mr. Wyckoff. There is something interesting I found from him. "Mr. Wyckoff felt that an experienced judge of the market should regard the whole story that appears on the tape as though it were the expression of a single mind." This is what I am thinking recently and I felt so excited to have similar thinking process with Mr. Wyckoff. Thanks again for introducing this gentleman to me. Cheers.

[72black 10]

“Having a clear mind set without worry over bills & payments due cannot be part of the mindset of trading as this can produce negative influence. I believe a successful trader has zero external influence. “

 

You are right. But is it a good enduring training and a plus for trading power if you can handle the trades well under this situation? If you worry bills & payment, then you care of your money during your trading with great pressure, in my opinion, it is a good force to make the person successful in the trading process. Furthermore, I can have experience to care my money in my heart, then I would learn to care about other people's money and more risk perceptions in my trading or for other. Am I right?

 

 

“Do exactly what the chart tells you to do & do not under any circumstances second guess. “

I just have a funny question, Do we believe what we see or what we hear in the trading world? Will we be deceived by ourselves or others sometimes? Thanks and Cheers,

 

At the end of the day it's up to the individual. I have added to this discussion based on my own experiences & for me fiscal worry will have me see what I want to see & do perhaps what I should not. True some people find fiscal worry a motivator. I had many experiences with this as a mortgage broker, the most come work group for debt motivation was sales. In particular high end sales managers.

 

Trading is a business & for me must be viewed separately from personal financial matters, I pay myself a % salary of capital earnings & care deeply about my personal money. I needed to separate my emotional attachment - it was a long road. Stepping away inside my mind was necessary for my trading business to move forward. Still a work in progress & will continue to be.

 

As for hearing what goes on in the world I do not. I do exactly what my system tells me. I do not pay attention to commentators on TV, radio, news paper on the net or a friend with their worldly words of wisdom. If price action is below my trigger I short if price action is above my trigger I go long. Again this is what I had to do to step away emotionally.

 

If anyone truly desires to succeed long term in any endevour the individual must adopt a mindset that works for them.

[wmck6167 10]

I found a lot of people used to use non-interacted thinking to solve the interacted system problem. Can Game theory successfully predict the future without the right mindset? Just curious. Cheers and have a peace trade for everyone.

[Guest OILFXPRO]

sounds like

 

"The market always tells you what to do. It tells you: Get in. Get out. Move your stop. Close out. Stay neutral. Wait for a better chance. All these things the market is continually impressing upon you, and you must get into the frame of mind where you are in reality taking your orders from the action of the market itself -- from the tape." ~ Richard D. Wyckoff

 

 

 

Not really... if you cannot fully reconcile and embrace that you are in this game to TAKE opm, then you won't last long

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We don’t see things the way they are.

We see things the way we are." Talmud

 

 

 

___________________________________________________________

 

ps Use your will to condition your choices… instead of trying to use your choices to condition your will…

 

We see biased view .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMqDIXsLm8

[MightyMouse 12]

We see biased view .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMqDIXsLm8

 

If your bias is in the right direction, then embrace it. When you review your trade data , if you are objective enough, you'll find trades that made you money that you should not have entered (you misread the data and entered in error). Yet, you made money.

 

We are seeking profits, not truth.

[zdo 20]

We see biased view .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMqDIXsLm8

 

Be careful… mercun science talk(s) can ‘cover up’ / obfuscate / cloud your access to as many 'biases' as they reveal…

[Guest OILFXPRO]

Be careful… mercun science talk(s) can ‘cover up’ / obfuscate / cloud your access to as many 'biases' as they reveal…[/quote

 

the intellectal of non misinformation that lurk on forums

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=+mercun+science+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp&gws_rd=cr&ei=92k3UqTcL8bF7AbH74GQCQ

[Guest OILFXPRO]

If your bias is in the right direction, then embrace it. When you review your trade data , if you are objective enough, you'll find trades that made you money that you should not have entered (you misread the data and entered in error). Yet, you made money.

 

We are seeking profits, not truth.

 

Most hindsight traders do exactly just that , where most real traders struggle is in real time trading , because real time our biases come into what we see on charts.

 

Hindsight traders don't suffer the effects of reality , like human errors and execution.