True Genius Resides in Simplicity

[Gekko78 10]

Someone sent me a chart the other day that was filled with so much "stuff" that it looked like either a schematic for a nuclear power plant or his chart was having a heart attack so I decided to write this.

 

I came across the saying while reading a book about a week ago. If this is true then why , do people make everything so complex and difficult? It is actually quite simple. Average people like complexity because it essentially gives them and excuse to fail. This saying, and the thinking that accompanies it , could not be more true in trading. If you have ever researched trading online you will come across many charts that are filled with all kinds of indicators , oscillators, trend lines, shapes , colors and everything else else under the sun that will fit on a chart . So why do these people use all this “stuff”?

 

The reason is simple. It shifts the blame away from themselves onto the “stuff”. They will blame the “stuff” instead of themselves. Human beings do not like to be wrong and when they are , they will look for the nearest thing to blame. They will say things like ” well it was not my fault , the lines crossed so it was the lines that were wrong and not me. ” They think that having all this “stuff” on their screen will help them make better trading decisions when in reality it actually makes things much worse. The problem is that when you have to much “stuff” on your charts it starts to create many barriers to entry and it makes you second guess yourself to much. When you have 15 different indicators on your charts and you will not take a trade until they all line up , you miss to many trades and you start making exceptions to your own rules and taking trades when you should not be. I learned a few years ago that all these things do is cloud your judgement and make your emotions run wild and assist you in losing your hard earned cash.

 

One of the first things you must learn about trading is that you will lose money. Let me repeat that, YOU WILL LOSE MONEY. You cannot avoid it. Even the best traders lose money. Losing is OK it is a part of the game you have to accept that in order to succeed. If you cannot accept that you should not trade , hand your money over to someone who is not afraid to lose your money.

 

Remember that true maturity is accepting responsibility for your actions no matter what the outcome is. So the next time you pull a chart up and you are ready to start adding a bunch of indicators and the latest one that you bought because some guy sent you a "special secret" email with the REAL indicators............... remember this:

 

True genius resides in simplicity:)

 

 

 

 

PS: Looking forward to the chicken hawks attacking this

Edited June 29, 2013 by Gekko78

[bobcollett 10]

”

 

True genius resides in simplicity:)

 

PS: Looking forward to the chicken hawks attacking this

 

Hi Gekko

Why would the gorrilas attack something that makes sense?

And your highlight "YOU WILL LOSE MONEY"is the holy grail.

Accept and understand that fact and you will prosper.

It does take a while.

regards

bobc

[Gekko78 10]

Hi Gekko

Why would the gorrilas attack something that makes sense?

And your highlight "YOU WILL LOSE MONEY"is the holy grail.

Accept and understand that fact and you will prosper.

It does take a while.

regards

bobc

 

Thanks for the reply and I agree with you. The psychological barrier is usually the reason more most peoples failure in trading (and life in general)

 

Why would the gorillas or chicken hawks attack this? Because that's what they do. There are many on this site, and other sites, that live to counter everything they can get their hands on. Up is down , black is white , left is right and so on. Sometimes I enjoy their banter but often it is just hot air spewed from failures and such.

[steve46 12]

Simplicity is so important (consider the titles of my threads)

 

Simplicity (in terms of screen display) is the minimum necessary to (quickly) make profitable decisions.

 

 

 

Boom

[zdo 20]

Yum! …chicken.

 

A trader can very easily simplify himself right out of business.

(…I sincerely hope not while morphing and weaving ‘simplicity’ into trading psychology lessons about loss avoidance biases, responsibility, etc. in the process…)

 

True Genius Resides in Complex-ifying as much as is needed and Simplifying as much as possible – not in weighting one and discounting the other for everyone by edict.

 

Ie

 

True genius is staying near your own sweet optimal spot ‘btwn’ weird complexity and utter simplicity.

 

[Gekko78 10]

Yum! …chicken.

 

A trader can very easily simplify himself right out of business.

(…I sincerely hope not while morphing and weaving ‘simplicity’ into trading psychology lessons about loss avoidance biases, responsibility, etc. in the process…)

 

True Genius Resides in Complex-ifying as much as is needed and Simplifying as much as possible – not in weighting one and discounting the other for everyone by edict.

 

Ie

 

True genius is staying near your own sweet optimal spot ‘btwn’ weird complexity and utter simplicity.

 

 

Simplicity , in my terms , has nothing to do with loss avoidance or anything like that. It simply refers to people who feel that indicators or anything like them will give them an edge.

 

They try to complicate a ham sandwich (the market) instead of accepting it for what it really is : an auction.. the market is not to far away from ebay if you actually take it for what it is:

 

You have a seller with his offer

You have people who are offering to buy at a certain price ( bid) and will not go higher.

You have people who do not care what price is they just have to have the thing so they "BUY IT NOW" same as a market order.

You have spoofing on ebay and bid retracting just like the financial markets.

 

Stop trying to complicate a ham sandwich.

[zdo 20]

"Simplicity , in my terms , has nothing to do with loss avoidance or anything like that."

 

Yet we got the following…’in your terms’

So why do these people use all this “stuff”?

 

The reason is simple. It shifts the blame away from themselves onto the “stuff”. They will blame the “stuff” instead of themselves. Human beings do not like to be wrong and when they are , they will look for the nearest thing to blame. They will say things like ” well it was not my fault , the lines crossed so it was the lines that were wrong and not me. ” They think that having all this “stuff” on their screen will help them make better trading decisions when in reality it actually makes things much worse. The problem is that when you have to much “stuff” on your charts it starts to create many barriers to entry and it makes you second guess yourself to much. When you have 15 different indicators on your charts and you will not take a trade until they all line up , you miss to many trades and you start making exceptions to your own rules and taking trades when you should not be. I learned a few years ago that all these things do is cloud your judgement and make your emotions run wild and assist you in losing your hard earned cash.

 

One of the first things you must learn about trading is that you will lose money. Let me repeat that, YOU WILL LOSE MONEY. You cannot avoid it. Even the best traders lose money. Losing is OK it is a part of the game you have to accept that in order to succeed. If you cannot accept that you should not trade , hand your money over to someone who is not afraid to lose your money.

 

Remember that true maturity is accepting responsibility for your actions no matter what the outcome is. So the next time you pull a chart up …

 

no lesson comingling there ?

And you're asking us to “Stop trying to complicate a ham sandwich.”

 

and

"You have a seller with his offer

You have people who are offering to buy at a certain price ( bid) and will not go higher.

You have people who do not care what price is they just have to have the thing so they "BUY IT NOW" same as a market order.

You have spoofing on ebay and bid retracting just like the financial markets."

 

One man’s “simplicity” is another man’s “noise”

and … why are you complicating things with bid and offers? In liquid markets ...

[Gekko78 10]

"Simplicity , in my terms , has nothing to do with loss avoidance or anything like that."

 

Yet we got the following…’in your terms’

 

 

no lesson comingling there ?

And you're asking us to “Stop trying to complicate a ham sandwich.”

 

and

"You have a seller with his offer

You have people who are offering to buy at a certain price ( bid) and will not go higher.

You have people who do not care what price is they just have to have the thing so they "BUY IT NOW" same as a market order.

You have spoofing on ebay and bid retracting just like the financial markets."

 

One man’s “simplicity” is another man’s “noise”

and … why are you complicating things with bid and offers? In liquid markets ...

 

Well that didn't take long. Less than 5 days before the chicken hawks came over. You would think I would have learned my lesson the last time I posted on this site.

 

Obviously Mr. Market Wizard sir , you do not understand simplicity for which it was intended in that post.

 

If you find the term bid and offer complicating then you should just stop trading entirely( if you actually trade or perhaps you claim to) Those are so basic it is sickening.

 

One man’s “simplicity” is another man’s “noise” That's the problem , there is no such thing as noise. It all has relevance. But its fine.

 

I guess I will take the road that many have before me on this site and refrain from posting and find a new home .It is a shame to , I remember when this site actually had something to offer and now it seems it is full of people who cannot trade but try and teach others how to as if they know and who wait for new posts to go up only to shoot them down as best they can.

 

I had stayed away from this site because this same thing happened a long time ago. I had hoped maybe some better people found their way here but , no.

 

They give the title of "market wizard" to anyone just because they post a lot regardless of whether it is nonsense or something of value.

 

Lesson Learned

 

Good luck to everyone.

[zdo 20]

Thanks for sharing.

 

Sad fact is 'ET' is everywhere ... I was protesting the paucity of the OP...

 

True genius does not "reside" in simplicity.

 

All the best,

 

zdo

[jpennybags 11]

I guess I will take the road that many have before me on this site and refrain from posting and find a new home .It is a shame to , I remember when this site actually had something to offer and now it seems it is full of people who cannot trade but try and teach others how to as if they know and who wait for new posts to go up only to shoot them down as best they can.

 

You've posted about trading a single contract, and being satisfied with making a meager living (keeping it simple). There are people on this site who make a decent living, support their family, and have a satisfying career. If you want to throw in the towel over a few critical words then... stop posting. You wont be missed.

[Gekko78 10]

You've posted about trading a single contract, and being satisfied with making a meager living (keeping it simple). There are people on this site who make a decent living, support their family, and have a satisfying career. If you want to throw in the towel over a few critical words then... stop posting. You wont be missed.

 

Ah tisk tisk, yet another shark coming out of the water. I love the misquotes.

 

Yes I did post about trading one contract(glad to see you read it) which was a long time ago. It was just a thought I had after talking with someone who was just starting. That is what a forum is right>? A place to share ideas? I do not recall saying that I make a living trading one contract. I said that there is nothing wrong with trading one contract and supplementing income for whatever one chooses to use it for.

 

Yep there are successful traders out there making a decent living and supporting their families but I doubt they reside on this site anywhere. I am sure that professional traders who make really good money cannot wait until they get home so they can jump on this site and post!! I guess it depends on what you consider a decent living that will be different for everyone.

 

Missed? You do not even know me , why would you or anyone miss me?

 

I left this site a while back because the caliber of most ( not all , there are a few good people on here) is really quite sad. I have seen the jackals chase away some good ones.

 

I forgot about this site until last week when I received an email about an old thread that I had posted in a while back. So I figured I would give it another try but , unfortunately they let anyone with an email address register for these sites. I get it , web owners need to pay bills to.

 

Thanks again for reading my posts , it lets me know you care

[Gekko78 10]

Thanks for sharing.

 

Sad fact is 'ET' is everywhere ... I was protesting the paucity of the OP...

 

True genius does not "reside" in simplicity.

 

All the best,

 

zdo

 

The main reason I titled the articles this was that a method that was shown to me , which I have been using for about 3 months , by a professional floor trader is so ridiculously simple it's disgusting. I took him all of about 4 minutes to explain it to me. I said " That's it?" He said " Yep , guys like us use don't use indicators, lines or or anything you can purchase other than what is required by your broker, we do not have charts on the floor , we have price and that is it"

 

It requires nothing other than what is already provided with Ninja trader( or any other broker)

 

You do not need to buy the chart trader package either. There is no need for it. The free edition works perfectly.

 

Does it work 100% of the time? Nope , does not need to.

 

I have only shared it with one other person. A single mom with 3 kids who I have known for about 10 years . She is now supplementing her income for what her dead beat ex is not paying her.

 

I sell nothing , offer nothing and promise nothing.

 

We agree to disagree . When you are ready to admit I was right you know how to contact me .

Edited July 2, 2013 by Gekko78

[SIUYA 11]

Why would the gorillas or chicken hawks attack this? Because that's what they do. There are many on this site, and other sites, that live to counter everything they can get their hands on. Up is down , black is white , left is right and so on. Sometimes I enjoy their banter but often it is just hot air spewed from failures and such.

 

Not singling you out Gekko as this can apply to anyone - but this is an open internet for discussion- you wont get any group think here, dissension is usually the norm.

If you want opinions presenting one side of the coin and a bunch of yes men then talk to a broker.

 

You got what you asked for - you presented something then practically asked people to attack it......if its that simple and that good it should stand on its own two feet and folks may or may not agree you with you......simple right.

 

Getting you knickers in a knot will just frustrate you and distract you from trading - there are a million other sayings such as if you cant stand the heat ....blah blah. ..... but as in markets - in forums we all get what we want from them.

 

You asked, you received and then you get upset at it......you are making a simple thing complex.

 

...and so far you admit to sharing the system with only one other person.....i am surprised 100s of folks are not sending you PMs now. :

 

....................

As for simplicity...

I agree with what you say - often its over complicated, but you have to understand the complexities of a system before you can simplify it.

[jpennybags 11]

Ah tisk tisk, yet another shark coming out of the water. I love the misquotes.

 

Yes I did post about trading one contract(glad to see you read it) which was a long time ago. It was just a thought I had after talking with someone who was just starting. That is what a forum is right>? A place to share ideas? I do not recall saying that I make a living trading one contract. I said that there is nothing wrong with trading one contract and supplementing income for whatever one chooses to use it for.

 

Yep there are successful traders out there making a decent living and supporting their families but I doubt they reside on this site anywhere. I am sure that professional traders who make really good money cannot wait until they get home so they can jump on this site and post!! I guess it depends on what you consider a decent living that will be different for everyone.

 

Missed? You do not even know me , why would you or anyone miss me?

 

I left this site a while back because the caliber of most ( not all , there are a few good people on here) is really quite sad. I have seen the jackals chase away some good ones.

 

I forgot about this site until last week when I received an email about an old thread that I had posted in a while back. So I figured I would give it another try but , unfortunately they let anyone with an email address register for these sites. I get it , web owners need to pay bills to.

 

Thanks again for reading my posts , it lets me know you care

 

If seemed to you that I was piling on… not the case. There really is no need for all the name calling. I may have been a bit blunt with my reply, and for that I would apologize. Now that you've blasted TL and it's patrons, I suppose it's time to move on… best of good fortunes to you.

 

Oh yes, and just for the record: It is possible to make a decent living trading a single contract; kinda have to know what you're doing though.

[Enigmatics 10]

...and so far you admit to sharing the system with only one other person.....i am surprised 100s of folks are not sending you PMs now. :

 

This is just an observation since I've begun participating on this site more ..... but it seems like most (not all) aren't willing to share actual details. Lots of roundabout talk about what people "need" to do though.

[Gekko78 10]

This is just an observation since I've begun participating on this site more ..... but it seems like most (not all) aren't willing to share actual details. Lots of roundabout talk about what people "need" to do though.

 

What details do you want exactly? You want the strategy? You want account statements? You want screenshots? What details are you asking for ?

 

Does not matter anyway. I have seen conversations like this where someone asks for an account statement proving they are successful Statement is produced only to hear" That could be photo shopped"

 

Provide a screenshot and you will hear " Those are cherry picked trades after the fact"

 

 

Provide the strategy and you will hear " After running through XYZ backtesting and algo testing , this strategy is not viable long term" as if math is the answer.

 

 

I planned on not sharing it with anyone. I shared it wither her because I happen to talk to her and she told me what a hard time financially she was having due to her ex not paying her the support he was supposed to. She was not even aware that I trade.

I felt bad so I told her.

 

I am sure I am not the only one that the floor trader told about this strategy. He told me most of them still use it now and it was shown to him back in the 80's. Most people think the market has changed , it hasn't only you have changed the market is the same which is why it still works and I am sure it will continue to work for many years,

 

I am not special I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

[Gekko78 10]

If seemed to you that I was piling on… not the case. There really is no need for all the name calling. I may have been a bit blunt with my reply, and for that I would apologize. Now that you've blasted TL and it's patrons, I suppose it's time to move on… best of good fortunes to you.

 

Oh yes, and just for the record: It is possible to make a decent living trading a single contract; kinda have to know what you're doing though.

 

I suppose you are right . There is no need to ridicule people on here , they tend to do it to themselves anyway.

[Gekko78 10]

Not singling you out Gekko as this can apply to anyone - but this is an open internet for discussion- you wont get any group think here, dissension is usually the norm.

If you want opinions presenting one side of the coin and a bunch of yes men then talk to a broker.

 

You got what you asked for - you presented something then practically asked people to attack it......if its that simple and that good it should stand on its own two feet and folks may or may not agree you with you......simple right.

 

Getting you knickers in a knot will just frustrate you and distract you from trading - there are a million other sayings such as if you cant stand the heat ....blah blah. ..... but as in markets - in forums we all get what we want from them.

 

You asked, you received and then you get upset at it......you are making a simple thing complex.

 

...and so far you admit to sharing the system with only one other person.....i am surprised 100s of folks are not sending you PMs now. :

 

....................

As for simplicity...

I agree with what you say - often its over complicated, but you have to understand the complexities of a system before you can simplify it.

What if the method is not complex? What if it is a simple as buy here , sell here done. what then?

 

I understand what you are saying and I agree. I guess I would have hoped the intelligence level of people responding would have been a bit higher. I have no problem with intelligent and rational debating of topics in fact, I enjoy it. However, the way that most people respond to posts is not that way.

 

I get it though , naysayers nay. That's what they do . Failures are failures for a reason. They do not like it when others succeed around them because it makes them look like a failure even more, so they subconsciously try and bring you down to their level.

[Enigmatics 10]

What details do you want exactly? You want the strategy? You want account statements? You want screenshots? What details are you asking for ?

 

Does not matter anyway. I have seen conversations like this where someone asks for an account statement proving they are successful Statement is produced only to hear" That could be photo shopped"

 

Provide a screenshot and you will hear " Those are cherry picked trades after the fact"

 

 

Provide the strategy and you will hear " After running through XYZ backtesting and algo testing , this strategy is not viable long term" as if math is the answer.

 

 

I planned on not sharing it with anyone. I shared it wither her because I happen to talk to her and she told me what a hard time financially she was having due to her ex not paying her the support he was supposed to. She was not even aware that I trade.

I felt bad so I told her.

 

I am sure I am not the only one that the floor trader told about this strategy. He told me most of them still use it now and it was shown to him back in the 80's. Most people think the market has changed , it hasn't only you have changed the market is the same which is why it still works and I am sure it will continue to work for many years,

 

I am not special I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

 

I didn't ask for an account statement. Although that is a typical practice in most professions when people make claims of successful operations.

 

I was referring to the methodology. Hey man if you're making nice money using your strategy that is awesome and I'm happy for you. I just never understood the desire for someone to come to a message board and basically say they've figured it all out, but not really help others do that too. What's the point? This isn't really aimed at you personally because I've seen so many other people do what you're doing. 90% of the discussion around here becomes philosophical. Posters are dancing around each other, sort've "saying without saying" not wanting to give away the supposed "secret recipe".

 

You know what I learned in my time? You can have a system that makes great money, but that does not automatically mean someone else will be able to use it effectively too. So I don't understand the paranoia I see some exhibiting. I know a guy who actually gave me all of his ToS coding .... a special brand of volume profile analysis. He kills it with this thing, his win % is typically 65%-70% and his reward-to-risk is nearly 2.5 to 1. I have yet to be able to use it like he does.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Enigmatics

[jpennybags 11]

I suppose you are right . There is no need to ridicule people on here , they tend to do it to themselves anyway.

 

Yes, we've made note of that.

[zdo 20]

This is just an observation since I've begun participating on this site more ..... but it seems like most (not all) aren't willing to share actual details. Lots of roundabout talk about what people "need" to do though.

 

" The prudent keep their knowledge to themselves, but a fool's heart blurts ...."

Proverbs 12:23

 

... in most cases herein, it's a matter of not 'sowing seed on rocky ground' (more bible - while it's still legal...) ie not wasting your time writing out quality explanations that still won't be understood...

 

"True Genius Resides in Simplicity"

[Enigmatics 10]

" The prudent keep their knowledge to themselves, but a fool's heart blurts ...."

Proverbs 12:23

 

... in most cases herein, it's a matter of not 'sowing seed on rocky ground' (more bible - while it's still legal...) ie not wasting your time writing out quality explanations that still won't be understood...

 

"True Genius Resides in Simplicity"

 

Helping people is not "blurting".

 

Having thousands of posts and not actually helping anyone make money is (not referring to you specifically).

 

If people aren't understanding someone's explanations, then they're not doing a good enough job of connecting with the reader. But again, I don't get the impression that it's really about helping anyone. There are just too many paranoid posters who believe that they hold the holy grail and if anyone else gets their hands on it, it will fail to continue making money.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Enigmatics

[zdo 20]

Gekko, you're still here?... thought you were leaving...

 

I sell nothing , offer nothing and promise nothing.

Yet you have a Golden C

…

 

and you have a Golden C,

yet you spew treat us like sht

More

 

'you spot it - you got it'

That's what I always tell myself...

[Gekko78 10]

I didn't ask for an account statement. Although that is a typical practice in most professions when people make claims of successful operations.

 

I was referring to the methodology. Hey man if you're making nice money using your strategy that is awesome and I'm happy for you. I just never understood the desire for someone to come to a message board and basically say they've figured it all out, but not really help others do that too. What's the point? This isn't really aimed at you personally because I've seen so many other people do what you're doing. 90% of the discussion around here becomes philosophical. Posters are dancing around each other, sort've "saying without saying" not wanting to give away the supposed "secret recipe".

 

You know what I learned in my time? You can have a system that makes great money, but that does not automatically mean someone else will be able to use it effectively too. So I don't understand the paranoia I see some exhibiting. I know a guy who actually gave me all of his ToS coding .... a special brand of volume profile analysis. He kills it with this thing, his win % is typically 65%-70% and his reward-to-risk is nearly 2.5 to 1. I have yet to be able to use it like he does.

I agree with you here. This thread had nothing to do with and strategy actually , it kind of morphed that way. I mentioned something about it but that was it just a mention. By no means am I stating that I figured anything out , in fact I figured out nothing someone showed me something. I take credit for nothing.

 

I also have never made any claims that I am making great money. I said I am making what I need to make. That number will be different for everyone.

 

I also agree with you about methods working differently for everyone. In fact as I was reading your post about your friend and the coding I was immediately turned off because of the word coding. I follow price and that's it so that method probably would not work for me even though it works great for him.

 

Every person is different and their emotional reactions will be different to every situation , that is why the trader told me this about systems: " People are always trying to quantify the market , it cannot be done. You cannot quantify human emotions. Decisions are not black and white. Decisions fall in the grey area. Black and white can be quantified but grey cannot"

[Gekko78 10]

Gekko, you're still here?... thought you were leaving...

 

 

Yet you have a Golden C

…

 

and you have a Golden C,

yet you spew treat us like sht

More

 

'you spot it - you got it'

That's what I always tell myself...

 

I am still here because I keep getting emails about this post so I will continue to post on here until others stop.

 

Yes there is a C under my name which I put there. If you actually hover over it you would notice that is says "Publisher" . I chose to put that there because I write articles for a website.

 

I wanted to be as transparent as possible on here so I figured by putting that C there I was doing the right thing. I do not sell anything or offer any services for an monetary value. I just write articles and trade , that's it.

 

The C does not always mean that you are selling something..........jumping to conclusions again without proper research.