Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Minetoo

Which Pivots???

Recommended Posts

There is a lot of discussion on these boards regarding Pivot Point trading and calculation and the purpose of this thread is to come to some definitive conclusions about which Pivot Point calculator and calculation method is best.

There are four (4) PP calculators on this site alone and numerous other ones available elsewhere. My question is which one has the greatest validity? Does the user input session data or 24 hour data? Do you use the close or the settlement price? What about the vaunted and somewhat secretive 'floor trader' pivots? In sum, is there a consensus (and attendant back-testing) as to which numbers and which calculator works best?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally use the regular ol' classic pivot calculations:

 

R4 = R3 + RANGE (same as: PP + RANGE * 3)

R3 = R2 + RANGE (same as: PP + RANGE * 2)

R2 = PP + RANGE

R1 = (2 * PP) - LOW

PP = (HIGH + LOW + CLOSE) / 3

S1 = (2 * PP) - HIGH

S2 = PP - RANGE

S3 = S2 - RANGE (same as: PP - RANGE * 2)

S4 = S3 - RANGE (same as: PP - RANGE * 3)

 

I use only the 9:30-4:15 session for my calculations, and find that they work perfectly well. I also use Market Profile "value area" pivots to trade from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also prefer the classic pivots but I can't see the logic of using the 0930-1615 hours. It doesn't correspond with YM, DJ or NYSE open hours. I think it's best to use either the official YM high, low and close (or settlement) from the CBOT website or use NYSE hours (0930-1600).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ime, with YM - the 24 hr session is superior (price respects these pivots) more than the day session. again, just my experience.

 

i also find that YM more frequently "respects" floor trader pivots vs. ES. i have no idea why

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's my experience too dalby. Mypivots.com uses the 24 hour ECBOT session with the 1615 settle price as the close. Using the 1700 close is also an option. Definitely there are sometimes highs and lows in the electronic-only session that you don't want to exclude from your pivot calculations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

forgot to mention...

 

i've noticed also that the pivots calculated using the SETTLE price (which is sometimes different than the close) are usually better respected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

I would like to share my view on pivot point. In Indian Market 2nd Pivot level works better in both side. Yet my logic says one should not work blindly only on pivot levels. I think other parameters,tools will add up confidence.

Say if a got a Fibbonacci level coinciding with any of the pivot levels, in some case it might give me confidence on the level. Thanks & Pls give me your feedback.

 

Anik Mitra

Kolkata,India

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Tin Gull said :) traditional ones 'work' just fine. Sometimes on the DAX they are almost magical. Of course at other times when business is slow they are chopped from side to side as stops are run and traders lured in. Actually this can be the case with any well known line or formation, if there is no underlying order flow the fakirs come out in force :)

 

Cheers,

Nick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about tight, range-bound days (aka 'chop' or 'random rotational days') when the price action doesn't even come near the pivot lines? Are they just discarded on these days and some other strategy employed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least one pivot usually comes into play but they're not the holy grail. You need to look at other sources of support and resistance like previous highs/lows, fibs and value area levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use the values from the daily chart which should be 24h high/low and the settlement price should be the close. So for YM On tradestation I use the data from the previous day on a daily @YM chart to plot on my current intraday chart using my own indicator, which can be downloaded from the indicators forum. I use the 'standard' formula.

 

I use these calculations from experience as they have proven to be the most respected by the market on the YM, ES and DAX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  Minetoo said:
What about tight, range-bound days (aka 'chop' or 'random rotational days') when the price action doesn't even come near the pivot lines? Are they just discarded on these days and some other strategy employed?

 

On those days it will often chop around the PP itself. Halfway points are often respected too. The problem often comes after a wide range day - the lines for the next day are going to be spread out (due to the geomatory behind the maths). After such a day you may get a narrow consolidating day (or 2) in which case you may not hit much.

 

Really there is no substitute for eyballing the charts yourself and seeing what works (or not) for your favourite instrument.

 

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings.............

while we are on the subject of pivots.........

 

Is it possible to use pivots for longer time frames; over days or weeks.

 

Can I use a monthly bar to calculate the pivots for the following days and weeks of the next month ?

 

Do I use a weekly bar for the following days for the following week ?

 

How would pivots be used for short term (days) or even weeks.

 

I'm not sure how things would scale for different time periods. One day trading day in the stock market contains approximately 78 five minute bars and the pivots for this day are calculated from the previous day with a ratio of 78:1.

 

thanks,

 

//michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, many people (myself) included use monthly and weekly pivots.

 

needless to say, these are much wider between levels than daily pivots, and often don't come into play.

 

i love confluence. like when a daily pivot, a weekly pivot, and a market profile level (like a virgin POC) all come together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cooter
  michaelstuarts said:

I'm not sure how things would scale for different time periods. One day trading day in the stock market contains approximately 78 five minute bars and the pivots for this day are calculated from the previous day with a ratio of 78:1.

 

BTW - Many of us trade the indices using the 9:30-1615 timeframe on the futures contracts, yielding 81 five-minute bars over a 405 minute timeframe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • How long does it take to receive HFM's withdrawal via Skrill? less than 24H?
    • My wife Robin just wanted some groceries.   Simple enough.   She parked the car for fifteen minutes, and returned to find a huge scratch on the side.   Someone keyed her car.   To be clear, this isn’t just any car.   It’s a Cybertruck—Elon Musk's stainless-steel spaceship on wheels. She bought it back in 2021, before Musk became everyone's favorite villain or savior.   Someone saw it parked in a grocery lot and felt compelled to carve their hatred directly into the metal.   That's what happens when you stand out.   Nobody keys a beige minivan.   When you're polarizing, you're impossible to ignore. But the irony is: the more attention something has, the harder it is to find the truth about it.   What’s Elon Musk really thinking? What are his plans? What will happen with DOGE? Is he deserving of all of this adoration and hate? Hard to say.   Ideas work the same way.   Take tariffs, for example.   Tariffs have become the Cybertrucks of economic policy. People either love them or hate them. Even if they don’t understand what they are and how they work. (Most don’t.)   That’s why, in my latest podcast (link below), I wanted to explore the “in-between” truth about tariffs.   And like Cybertrucks, I guess my thoughts on tariffs are polarizing.   Greg Gutfield mentioned me on Fox News. Harvard professors hate me now. (I wonder if they also key Cybertrucks?)   But before I show you what I think about tariffs… I have to mention something.   We’re Headed to Austin, Texas This weekend, my team and I are headed to Austin. By now, you should probably know why.   Yes, SXSW is happening. But my team and I are doing something I think is even better.   We’re putting on a FREE event on “Tech’s Turning Point.”   AI, quantum, biotech, crypto, and more—it’s all on the table.   Just now, we posted a special webpage with the agenda.   Click here to check it out and add it to your calendar.   The Truth About Tariffs People love to panic about tariffs causing inflation.   They wave around the ghost of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff from the Great Depression like it’s Exhibit A proving tariffs equal economic collapse.   But let me pop this myth:   Tariffs don’t cause inflation. And no, I'm not crazy (despite what angry professors from Harvard or Stanford might tweet at me).   Here's the deal.   Inflation isn’t when just a couple of things become pricier. It’s when your entire shopping basket—eggs, shirts, Netflix subscriptions, bananas, everything—starts costing more because your money’s worth less.   Inflation means your dollars aren’t stretching as far as they used to.   Take the 1800s.   For nearly a century, 97% of America’s revenue came from tariffs. Income tax? Didn’t exist. And guess what inflation was? Basically zero. Maybe 1% a year.   The economy was booming, and tariffs funded nearly everything. So, why do people suddenly think tariffs cause inflation today?   Tariffs are taxes on imports, yes, but prices are set by supply and demand—not tariffs.   Let me give you a simple example.   Imagine fancy potato chips from Canada cost $10, and a 20% tariff pushes that to $12. Everyone panics—prices rose! Inflation!   Nope.   If I only have $100 to spend and the price of my favorite chips goes up, I either stop buying chips or I buy, say, fewer newspapers.   If everyone stops buying newspapers because they’re overspending on chips, newspapers lower their prices or go out of business.   Overall spending stays the same, and inflation doesn’t budge.   Three quick scenarios:   We buy pricier chips, but fewer other things: Inflation unchanged. Manufacturers shift to the U.S. to avoid tariffs: Inflation unchanged (and more jobs here). We stop buying fancy chips: Prices drop again. Inflation? Still unchanged. The only thing that actually causes inflation is printing money.   Between 2020 and 2022 alone, 40% of all money ever created in history appeared overnight.   That’s why inflation shot up afterward—not because of tariffs.   Back to tariffs today.   Still No Inflation Unlike the infamous Smoot-Hawley blanket tariff (imagine Oprah handing out tariffs: "You get a tariff, and you get a tariff!"), today's tariffs are strategic.   Trump slapped tariffs on chips from Taiwan because we shouldn’t rely on a single foreign supplier for vital tech components—especially if that supplier might get invaded.   Now Taiwan Semiconductor is investing $100 billion in American manufacturing.   Strategic win, no inflation.   Then there’s Canada and Mexico—our friendly neighbors with weirdly huge tariffs on things like milk and butter (299% tariff on butter—really, Canada?).   Trump’s not blanketing everything with tariffs; he’s pressuring trade partners to lower theirs.   If they do, everybody wins. If they don’t, well, then we have a strategic trade chess game—but still no inflation.   In short, tariffs are about strategy, security, and fairness—not inflation.   Yes, blanket tariffs from the Great Depression era were dumb. Obviously. Today's targeted tariffs? Smart.   Listen to the whole podcast to hear why I think this.   And by the way, if you see a Cybertruck, don’t key it. Robin doesn’t care about your politics; she just likes her weird truck.   Maybe read a good book, relax, and leave cars alone.   (And yes, nobody keys Volkswagens, even though they were basically created by Hitler. Strange world we live in.) Source: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/the-truth-about-tariffs-busting-the-inflation-myth    Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/       
    • No, not if you are comparing apples to apples. What we call “poor” is obviously a pretty high bar but if you’re talking about like a total homeless shambling skexie in like San Fran then, no. The U.S.A. in not particularly kind to you. It is not an abuse so much as it is a sad relatively minor consequence of our optimism and industriousness.   What you consider rich changes with circumstances obviously. If you are genuinely poor in the U.S.A., you experience a quirky hodgepodge of unhelpful and/or abstract extreme lavishnesses while also being alienated from your social support network. It’s about the same as being a refugee. For a fraction of the ‘kindness’ available to you in non bio-available form, you could have simply stayed closer to your people and been MUCH better off.   It’s just a quirk of how we run the place and our values; we are more worried about interfering with people’s liberty and natural inclination to do for themselves than we are about no bums left behind. It is a slightly hurtful position and we know it; we are just scared to death of socialism cancer and we’re willing to put our money where our mouth is.   So, if you’re a bum; you got 5G, the ER will spend like $1,000,000 on you over a hangnail but then kick you out as soon as you’re “stabilized”, the logistics are surpremely efficient, you have total unchecked freedom of speech, real-estate, motels, and jobs are all natural healthy markets in perfect competition, you got compulsory three ‘R’’s, your military owns the sky, sea, space, night, information-space, and has the best hairdos, you can fill out paper and get all the stuff up to and including a Ph.D. Pretty much everything a very generous, eager, flawless go-getter with five minutes to spare would think you might need.   It’s worse. Our whole society is competitive and we do NOT value or make any kumbaya exception. The last kumbaya types we had werr the Shakers and they literally went extinct. Pueblo peoples are still around but they kind of don’t count since they were here before us. So basically, if you’re poor in the U.S.A., you are automatically a loser and a deadbeat too. You will be treated as such by anybody not specifically either paid to deal with you or shysters selling bejesus, Amway, and drugs. Plus, it ain’t safe out there. Not everybody uses muhfreedoms to lift their truck, people be thugging and bums are very vulnerable here. The history of a large mobile workforce means nobody has a village to go home to. Source: https://askdaddy.quora.com/Are-the-poor-people-in-the-United-States-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world-6   Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.