Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Nextek

Is it possible to trade without using any indicators?

Recommended Posts

Ive been reading a couple threads in this forum that use trading strategies without indicators. I am not familiar with this method but would like to learn more. Is it possible to trade with just price action alone? How do you take trade signals?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The day I took all my indicators off is the day I started trading profitably.

 

I dont use a single indicator on my charts, not even volume. I read tape to understand volume. I use a 233 TICK chart with pivot points and market profile.

 

Don't rely on indicators. There is good money selling indicators and will always remain popular. But like the name says... they indicate. Take a look at my chart.

noindicatorchart.jpg.86732f85f5646483b2dceafa7b1e9b79.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Floor traders do not rely on indicators. They use mainly pivots to identify reversal points. As long as you can read order flow, you really do not need any indicators on your charts.

 

I know a floor trader who uses a notepad with several key price levels to trade. That is his only weapon and he's been doing it for over 10 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use indicators, I use them a lot! One thing leads to another. Find the buttons and levers and how the indicators tend to move what ever it is you are trading and you will have an advantage. I keep harping about multiple windows and screens get them and use them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use volume and pivots and not much else. I will use the TTM trend indicator for certain trades, and sometimes glance at ADX to give me an idea of the strength of the trend, but I don't use MACD, stochastics, RSI, CCI, or any of that stuff. I certainly don't use any indicators to get me into a trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

when i scalp the dow futures (which is how i make my living), i also do not use any indicators (in the sense of lagging indicators)

 

i look for key price levels (potential support/resistance), and i watch the TICK, various related markets (bonds, ETF's etc.), etc.

 

i have traded successfully when on the road using just a 5 minute chart, a line chart of the tick, and a list of sectors. so, it is DEFINITELY possible to trade without indicators.

 

indicators are all (pretty much) derived from a formula applied ot a series of price points. thus, they don't give any more information than price does. they merely compile/compute etc. values based on price

 

fwiw, i *do* use lagging indicators for longer term stuff. i find it very useful. i think the futures are too efficient intraday for me to get any value from indicators. imo, indicators are how the retail traders trades, and they (overwhelmingly) are losing money on futures. i want to trade as a professional, not a retail trader.

 

generally speaking, this has been a means reversion market. i think at least part of the reason is that the market (which is merely the aggregate of all trader's actions) has adjusted to the profileration of screen based/arcade style traders, thus making these methods less useful . the market has to adapt, since it is all traders' actions.

 

i have an edge.

 

if most losing traders are using indicators, it follows that part of an edge is NOT using what the average joe is using

 

all imo of course :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very smart, high iq people can trade without indicators, more stupid left brained people we need them to help us trade... indicators themselfs wont make you rich... concepts of price action wich are independent to indicators will make you profitable... now some indicators amplify does concepts and help silly people like me to trade.... cheers Walter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to show a pic that I took. x for aggregated contracts less then 50, dot for contracts greater then 50 in that 1 minute bar interval. Red for seller, and blue for buyer.

 

From it you can see that red x out nubmered the blue all the way before 10:30 Eco report. You can see that sellers are anticipate a fall before the report, so they are setting up themselve on the short side.

 

Look at 10:31 bar, seller was able to push down 20 YM points in 1 minute without any efforts, as you do not see any red or blue dot or cross.

 

The moral of this pic is to show that no price derived indicator will show the intention of the buyer or seller.

 

For short term trading, able to to read order flow is an edge over indicator.

 

mho.

 

weiwei

bb4.png.df588bdbb86ba6906e5ac292a660f2e9.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cooter

Interesting concept, weiwei.

 

Are these X's and dot's indicative of aggregrated VOLUME on each 1 minute bar - red for down volume (sells) and blue for up volume (buys) - or delta volume?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cooter and BlowFish,

 

those are bid/ask from tape.

 

If the transaction is greater then 50 then plot dot. If more then one during this period of time, then keep adding until end of time.

 

On the X, I call them Junior. It is transaction with contract greater then 10 but less then 50. If bid, then it is negetive number, if ask then positive number.

 

X do not get plot right away, it is ploted at end of each bar, after all the addition or subtraction.

 

This will show the who is more active, buyer or seller, at end of each bar.

 

weiwei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cooter

Nicely done, Weiwei. Makes sense too, at those thresholds, at least for the YM.

 

Would you use the same parameters for larger contracts like the ES?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

these numbers are base on trail and error. Not base on stats.

 

And on ES, so far 700 and 100 are my cut off line. In other word, I am not intertest in any transaction less then 100 contracts. Rule of 20/80 for this idea.

 

weiwei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK i think I understand so for junior you look at the delta filtered for trades between 10 & 50 if it's positive you plot a x below and negative a cross above? The bars with no cross presumeably had zero delta possibly due to no trades between 10 & 50 contracts.

 

The dot I guess does the same things for trades greater than 50.

 

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • TDUP ThredUp stock, watch for a top of range breakout above 2.94 at https://stockconsultant.com/?TDUP
    • NFLX Netflix stock watch, local support and resistance areas at 838.12 and 880.5 at https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX
    • Date: 8th April 2025.   Markets Rebound Cautiously as US-China Tariff Tensions Deepen     Global markets staged a tentative recovery on Tuesday following a wave of volatility sparked by escalating trade tensions between the United States and China. The Asia-Pacific region showed signs of stability after a chaotic start to the week—though some pockets remained under pressure. Taiwan’s Taiex dropped 4.4%, dragged lower by losses in tech heavyweight TSMC. The world’s largest chipmaker fell another 4% on Tuesday and has now slumped 13.5% since April 2, when US President Donald Trump first unveiled what he called ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs.   However, broader sentiment across the region turned more positive, with several markets rebounding sharply after Monday’s dramatic sell-offs. Japan’s Nikkei 225 surged over 6% in early trading, rebounding from an 18-month low. South Korea’s Kospi rose marginally, and Australia’s ASX 200 gained 1.9%, driven by strength in mining stocks. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng rose 1.6%, though still far from recovering from Monday’s 13.2% crash—its worst day since the 1997 Asian financial crisis. China’s Shanghai Composite added 0.9%.   In Europe, DAX and FTSE 100 are up more than 1% in opening trade. EU Commission President von der Leyen repeated yesterday that the EU had offered reciprocal zero tariffs on manufactured goods previously and continues to stand by that offer. Others are also trying again to talk to Trump to get some sort of agreement that limits the impact.   Much of the rally appeared to be driven by dip-buying, as well as hopes that the intensifying trade war could still be defused through negotiations.   China Strikes Back: ‘We Will Fight to the End’   Tensions reached a boiling point after Trump threatened to impose an additional 50% tariff on all Chinese imports unless Beijing rolled back its retaliatory measures by April 8. ‘If China does not withdraw its 34% increase above their already long-term trading abuses by tomorrow... the United States will impose additional tariffs on China of 50%,’ Trump declared on social media.   If implemented, the new tariffs would bring total US duties on Chinese goods to a staggering 124%, factoring in the existing 20%, the 34% recently announced, and the proposed 50%.   In response, China’s Ministry of Commerce issued a stern warning, stating: ‘The US threat to escalate tariffs is a mistake on top of a mistake... If the US insists on its own way, China will fight to the end.’ The ministry also called for equal and respectful dialogue, though signs of compromise on either side remain scarce.   Beijing acted quickly to contain a market fallout. State funds intervened to support equities, and the People’s Bank of China set the yuan fixing at its weakest level since September 2023 to boost export competitiveness. Additionally, five-year interest rate swaps in China fell to their lowest levels since 2020, indicating potential for further monetary easing.   Trump Talks Tough on EU Too   Trump’s hardline approach extended beyond China. Speaking at a press conference, he rejected the European Union’s offer to eliminate tariffs on cars and industrial goods, accusing the bloc of ‘being very bad to us.’ He insisted that Europe would need to source its energy from the US, claiming the US could ‘knock off $350 billion in one week.’   The EU, meanwhile, backed away from a proposed 50% retaliatory tariff on American whiskey, opting instead for 25% duties on selected US goods in response to Trump’s steel and aluminium tariffs.     Volatile Wall Street Adds to the Drama   Wall Street experienced wild swings on Monday as investors processed the rapidly evolving trade conflict. The S&P 500 briefly fell 4.7% before rebounding 3.4%, nearly erasing its losses in what could have been its biggest one-day jump in years—if it had held. The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank by as much as 1,700 points early in the day but later climbed nearly 900 points before closing 349 points lower, down 0.9%. The Nasdaq ended up 0.1%.   The brief rally was fueled by a false rumour that Trump was considering a 90-day pause on tariffs—rumours that the White House quickly labelled ‘fake news.’ The market's sharp reaction underscored how desperate investors are for any sign that tensions might ease.   Oil Markets in Focus: Goldman Sachs Revises Forecasts   Crude prices also reflected the uncertainty, with US crude briefly dipping below $60 per barrel for the first time since 2021. As of early Tuesday, Brent crude was trading at $64.72, while WTI hovered around $61.26.   Goldman Sachs, in a note dated April 7, lowered its average price forecasts for Brent and WTI through 2025 and 2026, citing mounting recession risks and the potential for higher-than-expected supply from OPEC+.       Under a base-case scenario where the US avoids a recession and tariffs are reduced significantly before the April 9 implementation date, Goldman sees Brent at $62 per barrel and WTI at $58 by December 2025. These figures fall further to $55 and $51, respectively, by the end of 2026. This outlook also assumes moderate output increases from eight OPEC+ countries, with incremental boosts of 130,000–140,000 barrels per day in June and July.   However, should the US slip into a typical recession and OPEC production aligns with the bank’s baseline assumptions, Brent could retreat to $58 by the end of this year and to $50 by December 2026.   In a more bearish scenario involving a global GDP slowdown and no change to OPEC+ output levels, Brent prices might fall to $54 by year-end and $45 by late 2026. The most extreme projection—based on a simultaneous economic downturn and a full reversal of OPEC+ production cuts—would see Brent plunge to below $40 per barrel by the end of 2026.   Goldman noted that oil prices could outperform forecasts significantly if there was a dramatic shift in tariff policy and a surprise in global demand recovery.   Cautious Optimism, But Warnings Persist   With both Washington and Beijing showing no signs of backing down, markets are likely to remain volatile in the days ahead. Investors now turn their attention to upcoming trade meetings and policy decisions, hoping for clarity in what has become one of the most unpredictable trading environments in recent years.   Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Andria Pichidi HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • CVNA Carvana stock watch, rebound to 166.56 support area at https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.