WHY?

Any day where any trading takes place should be entered into the count. Even if it is just 1/2 day of trading. Any instrument that trades when other don't ...a separate book should be kept for that instrument. So, you are correct in your observation. The ONLY days that do not enter in are days NO TRADING takes place. It makes no sense to enter a "no trading day" into the count when no new data has presented itself. As concerns Taylor. He did daytrade also. He also was a swing trader 2 to 3 to 4 days. In addition, he also trend traded and used his method for this longer term trading.

Any day that is NOT a trading day in the markets (that is, weekends..holidays) does not enter into the "count" at all. Therefore, if monday the 12th is a buy day then Friday 16th would be a sell as you say. Sat and Sunday and Monday 19th (holiday) do not even enter into the "count" at all. The next trading day would be tuesday 20th so it is an SS day. Ignore all weekends and all holidays in the count. As regards the two holiday senario you simply ignore them. They are not trading days so they don't enter in the count. If the markets were say closed for week you would ignore that week in the count and pick right back up on the next trading day with where you left off a week ago. That should answer any questions regarding a disaster such as the 9/11 disaster. Your second question of going from monday to friday...etc. is already answered by the above info. You ignore all weekends as if they never existed. Hope this helps to clarify things.

Monad, While I will not indicate to you exactly how I calculate the days nor how or why (in terms of specifics) I re-cycle (obviousley those are secrets I guard) I will be happy to refer you to the exact Taylor way of calculating the days. However, remember he did it by hand. In his day he had to work with what he had to work with. I am quite confident that IF he had worked his system in our time that we would see some changes in the way he does things. The heart of his system would be left intact but I am quite sure he would have done some tweaking in the computer age. Taylors way of starting the count can be found on page 15 of the book. Some people may think Taylor to be archaic and doubt that anything devised in the 50's could possibly be useful for todays markets. However, it must be realized that there are basic things about the market that never change. They are the same as they were in 1940. Just like there are many ways of making first and ten on the football field there are a few things that don't change; the field, the yardlines, the chains, the goal posts, the touchdown zone. While there are a number of ways to achieve the goal of first down or even touchdown these ways (whether they be the many ways of running or passing) all have to "happen" within the context of the immutable. Taylor simply "saw" the immutable in the markets and devised a strategy supported by tactics and rules to take advantage of the playing field. I might add that Taylor is a comprehensive system. However, as with any system one has to be very mechanical. Emotions are our worst enemy when it comes to trading. That said, in trading there is a "gut" feeling or 6th sense or whatever you want to call it, that can hit the nail on the head so to speak. That is the only emotion I would trust in trading. And it only happens on occasions. And it is generally developed only after much experience in the markets. I really think it is the brains way of processing info unconciousley and somehow indicating to your conciousness that prices will move in a certain direction. But trading on hope..fear..greed..joy...enthusiam in no way moves or alters the markets in the direction you want it to go. So, IF one can't be mechanical when trading (along with an occasional 6th sense event) then Taylor nor any other system will work. Price is king. Volume is queen. Discipline is IMPERATIVE. You must be ruthless. Nothing works in the market without discipline. When I speak of discipline I mean having rules and following them.

Panda...can be bought at Office Depot or online at Panda site.

I don't post much lately nor look at the this thread very often. However, I see that Monad and Hakuna have brought up some legitmate questions concerning my posts. The posts under question took place in 2007, I believe. For futures the data has to be manually typed into my software at the EOD. So, it would be time consuming for me to go back and find the days under question in that instrument and re-enter them into my software and take a look to try and determine what happened in my posting back in 2007. For stocks EOD data can be downloaded from a major vendor and plugged into my software so stocks are much easier in terms of getting the data into my software. So, without going back and finding the data for that instrument and going thru all the trouble of re-entering manually it into my software (as it takes several days of data for the software to make the calculations for the next day) I will attempt here to give some explanation about what "could" have happened in my posts: My software has a built in feature that allows for re-cycling the days IF certain anomalies or conditions appear in the market. The software alerts me to these conditions and ask me to re-cycle. Sometimes the re-cycling changes the sequence of the days and sometime it doesn't. But anytime the software ask me to do it, then it is probally best at least try re-cycling. This re-cycling serves as a mechanism that allows me to take a VERY temporary advantage of certain market conditions and this advantage applies ONLY for the next day of trading. I know Taylor didn't have this built into his system. Most of the time in 1 to 3 days (many times the very next day at the end of the day when latest data is plugged in) the cycle reverts back to what it would have been if no change had been made. Basically, what this does is that it allows me to call, for example, a buy day a sell day but only for the next trading day. And because of some anomaly or temporary condition the sequence is changed temporarily but it applies ONLY to the next day of trading. The temproray condition triggers the software. I know the sequence of the days are important and of course "when" one begins the "count" is of great importance. But one must remember Taylor didn't have computers and the calculations by hand would have been overwhelming to make changes in the "count". So,while I stress conserving the the Taylor "count" I also understand that preserving it doesn't mean it can't be tweaked any at all in this age of computers. What I am NOT for is taking the market action at the end of the day and trying to see what day of the cycle the action more nearly appears to mirror and thus labeling it as such and such day because of that particular action that day. One will end up with constant confusion and never know what the day of the cycle really is. Again, once a sequence is started it can be kept as Taylor kept it and it can be tweaked as I do it but it doesn't HAVE to be be tweaked. In other words, you trade it as the day of the cycle Taylor would have called it without any tweaking. My reason for tweaking it is that at times I will get an opportunity to go long and short (such as on a taylor buy day..his rules allow that) that I otherwise would not have gotton IF I had stuck strictly with Taylor on the sequence. For instance, if Taylor sequence says tomm is going to be a sell day then I can (according to the rules) only take a long position on a sell day if a BV occurs. That is, if it trades under the previous days low and does so early in the session. On the other hand, lets say my software says tomm is a sell day but authorizes me to re-cycle. When I re-cycle it may or may not change the sequence. However, lets say it does change it to a buy day. So, now because of something my software picked up in the markets I am allowed to trade tomm as IF it were a buy day. But, ONLY tomm. This re-cycling does not necessarily mean that the new sequence now stays in place for future days. It is ONLY good for Tomm. But, that re-cycling now gives me two potential trades. A short on a high made first and then reverse and long on a low made early in the session (say by noon). I have in effect upped my potential trading opportunities by temporarily trading tomm as if it was a buy day when by Taylor is would be a sell day with only one opportunity to go long and none to short. It is simply a mechanism to facilitate Taylor for day trading. Generally, the cycle reverts back to the original sequence many times the very next day at the end of the day. So what does this have to do with answering the questions Monad and Hakuna presented. Well...it happened back in 2007 and my memory barely goes back to yesterday...at times!! However, a possible explanation for the discrepancy in the sequence in my posts could very well be that when I wrote one post I failed to re-cycle the software. Remember my software doesn't automatically re-cycle for me. It just alerts me by a little yellow light that I may need to try re-cycling and see IF it changes the sequence of the days. I have to manually push the re-cycle button. Thus..I might have missed the light in one post...saw it in another later post and hit it and it did indeed change to another day. When I typed the latter post I may have been looking at a recycled day. I am not sure that this is an adequate, or even fair explanation. for Monad or Hakuna but it is an attempt to give a possible explanation for a discrepancy they discovered in my posts back in 2007. Of course, the key in Taylor is how do you start the count and do you allow re-cycling and if so, how do you determine when to re-cycle and how long does the re-cycling last. Of course, these are keys that I won't be revealing. However, I might say this; if my explanation confuses you then simply learn Taylor well...follow his rules...keep his sequence...and I think you will be pleased with the results providing you are disciplined and can trade on facts and on what the market is doing and not on emotions. Taylor, I like to say, devised a system to "clock" price movement in the markets and it is a pretty good system in my books with a high win rate (at least for me) if one can understand it and follow it...especially the rules. Read the book and study it 50 or more times over the course of a couple of years. I have many trading books. If I were forced to keep one it would be Taylor, no if, ands, or buts about it!! Hope this helps but it may only add to the confusion??? Hope you all have a good year trading in 2009. There should be plenty of shorting opportunities. But, remember with Taylor one can also go long in downtrends. Cycles exist, and they must exist, or nobody would trade a market that one day shoots to the sky and the next day crashed to the ground. Think about it! Cycles exist, and if they exist, they are engineered to exist. By whom? Well... I won't get into all that but it is enough to say that Taylor called it manipulation. These cycles existed in his day and cycles exist in our day. It is the way the markets work. They can be taken advantage of!!

Hakuna could you explain more in detail about where the confusion is concerning the buy...sell days??? Taylors method is NOT a charting method. It is purely price driven with built in cycles that he discovered in most stocks and futures. While charts are a reflection of price IF one uses charts then one falls into looking for chart patterns to try and determine the day of the cycle. I refer you to page 7, 3rd par. in his book. Many attempt to look at charts to determine the cycle and end up confused or just giving up. The heart of Taylor is the very short term manipulation of the markets by the deep pockets. This is done over 3 day cycles because IF a stock went straight up and straight down all the time the risk would be too great for folks to buy into it. Any movement (up or down with a few exceptions) must be sustained by support and resistance areas. It is a mechanism to make the market more orderly. Taylors contention is that this "orderliness" is accomplished in 3 day cycles. Tom Williams method in VSA can be useful as a preliminary scanning of interested stocks...futures. His method gives techniques for spotting the footprints of the "smart money". It is useful to take note of the footprints they leave and then plug those particular stocks into Taylors system. Williams method is a charting method of looking at individuals bars to spot the foot prints. I don't think it necessary to buy the software for Williams method however, if one wants to shell out the cash I don't see where it could hurt. Williams method does take into account volume. I see it as another tool to spot the action of the deep pockets. Manipulation of the markets is the heart of Taylor. His contention is this manipulation is done in cycles. The names of his days are simply his way of making sense of it all. You could name the days anything. He has rigid rules to follow for each day. His rules protect you on abnormal days and give you a view before the markets open. His system is all about "anticipating" what the market will probally do based upon what smart money is doing and based upon what day of the cycle the stock is in. I hesitate using the word "predict" because it makes some folks so mad they can't see. While no one can't predict exactly what the market will do it is possible to anticipate what it will "probally do". This is so because if manipulation is done systematically and orderly and IF manipulation is daily then cycles will develope. The cycles can be used to "anticpate" the probable next move. Of course it isn't 100% but it is accurate enough to make money. The rules are for when the system is "off".

When in a bear market look to short on high made first on buy days and on Shortsell days. Look for buying day violations to happen more often for taking QUICK long positions but do not stay in them long. Sell them at or just before the previous days (i.e. buy day's) low. Or use the 3 day method and short on succesive buy days until you get your line shorted then cover on succesive buy day lows or even short sell day lows. Remember in bear markets you must take advantage of the odds in your favor and use Taylor for more shorting opportunities. And in bear market you will see succesive BV's. In bull markets you will see higher buy day bottoms (usually profitable) and more penetrations of the target prices (objective points per Taylor) so naturally the odds favor using the system for long positions. Taylor can be used for daytrading, very short-term swing trading, or longer term swing trading. The strategies employed for each type of trading are unique.

Read George George Douglass Taylors book the Taylor Trading Technique about 40 or 50 times and then put what you learned into practice. You got an engineers mind so wade thru his book. Also read any threads on this forum on Taylor and any other forums. However, remember pure Taylor MO is less confusing that modifying Taylor like many try to do.

Remember in Taylor it is of vital importance to make note of WHEN the objective points take place. First or last in the trading session. It is the ONLY way to catch the REAL trend and avoid the whipsaws.

Understood Blowfish. Nevertheless, I might just say this; if he is interested in learning about trading, there are, as you know, tons of books. It can, and will get confusing sorting thru them all. However, if he wants to make money and can follow a system then Taylor can help him do that. For me the markets are about making money. If I were him I would want to find (or devise) a good system that works and if it works (makes money) then that is what I would use. I have taught Taylor to third world semi literate people who knew basically nothing or very little about trading stocks and had them making money right out of the gates.

Hello Blowfish, You mean no criticism of Taylor just criticism of the book I recommended or criticism of me for recomending such a book as Taylor eh??? Perhaps I was wrong in mentioning Taylor. I looked at post 1 again and perhaps he is not really interested in trading but just learning about "trading information". However, he does mention career. If he just wants to learn about trading well there are lots of books. Some good. Some bad. Some strange. If he wants to learn "how" to trade then Taylor can teach him that. Of course, stuff about futures and stocks such as placing orders..etc..contracts...i.e. the mechanics of the process would have to be learned form other sources if he has no idea how to place an order or, for instance, how to place different types of orders..etc.But, if he wants to learn "how" to trade and make money in futures or stocks, and will take the time to study Taylor....well he can learn "how"to trade without ever cracking open any other book. If ones follows Taylor rules, discipline is built into it. Preserving capital is built into it. The business part will take care of itself. Naturally, capitalization..reward/risk is things he might want to learn about from other sources but as a rule of thumb one can start with very little capital on stocks using Taylors concepts. Everyone has to do whatever they have to do to learn trading. I paid my dues and read my share of books...then when I found Taylor and finally understood what he is talking about I really see very little need for all my other high priced books on trading, be it stocks, or future, or systems..etc. Seldom do I look at any of them any more. However, Taylor I continue to read and reread. Full of Gems. Rem of a stock operator doesnt really give a complete system for trading but makes for interesting reading and is probally one of my favorite books for reading (full of gems too) but Jesse Livermore seemed to have a hard time following his own trading rules. That in the end finished him. But he was a great trader and certainly an interesting person and a gifted person. Too bad his life ended in such a tragic way.

I might. Not sure yet. Really all a person has to do to learn Taylor is read the book about 50 times. He is hard to understand. His writing style is certainly not the best. My comments are mostly just stuff that can be found in the book. I dont really think keeping a "book"the way Taylor did is appropiate in this day and time with computers available to us. So I would suggest to anyone; study Taylor, "stick to what he says", and then devise a software program to make the calculations. I have my own software I devised and had a programmer program up for me.

If a person has the ability and discipline to follow a system then all they need is in the book. Of course, if they aren't disciplined then they will need some help there. Taylors system clocked price movement and has strict rules to follow when things do not pan out. If one follows the rules the money managment issue will take care of itself. It is the one trading book Joe Ross says is eternal. Linda Bradford Raschke bases much of her trading on the Taylors concepts I understand. She also highly recommmends the book. I have lots of trading books. If I were forced to give them all up but one..well you know the one I would keep. :did I say that?: There are 2 or 3 threads here at TL about Taylor. I would suggest anyone interested in Taylor look at the threads. I have shared quite a few posts in those threads also. There have been many adaptations of Taylor methods. I guess"whatever adaptations floats ones' boat" and makes money is fine.

Buy 4 copies of The Taylor Trading Technique read the book 100 times. When one copy gets too marked up start a new copy. I a number of trading books. Some mentioned here. Taylors is the best book hands down. Hard to understand but the best book. You can find what you need in that book to trade.

I flip back and forth clockwise and counterclockwise. Rather rapidly.

Today nov 5 was a ss day and price action was consistent with that. It wasn't an ideal ss day in terms of entry but in terms of price movement it was close to an ideal day. That is: it opened, traded up, then down. The gap down open was the second alert of a possible failure penetrate the high of the previous day (i.e. 11/02). The first alert was the downtrend of 11/01 and 11/02. So, while 11/5 was an ss day one shouldn't have expected an ideal day with a penetration of the prevous days high. That is..... one would be ready to short on a failure to penetrate, if made early in the session. Shorting around 1511 ...1512 early in the session after tape goes dull and covering around 1:30 around ..1496 was the move for the day. Tomm 11/6 is a Buy day. I would be looking to short around 1511 to 1515 (if early in the session) and cover on any decent decline. If the decline is made early in the session i would then reverse and go long 1491 to 1493 area. If it trades down first on 11/06 i would look to to take the long position mentioned above. Of course, final entry point is determined by the intraday tape but this gives general areas that I would be looking at to take positions. Any short must be covered same session and any subsequent long sold if a late afternoon rally comes in strong. Otherwise, I would hold the long for selling the following day. However, if I went long in the a.m. part of the session and no afternoon rally takes place and it looks like it will close weak I would scrap the long position (cut losses or dump the long) and look to re-enter long on a possible bv on 11/7. This is taylor...also looking to position ones self for the more probable move. WHY?

Have a good weekend people. I am sliding off this thread. May your days be filled with profitible trades and may you enjoy life and find success in what you do. Hasta la vista.

Looks like we were both right OAC for today. IT was weak early in the session giving the ss day a profit. Then rallied back and finished strong. Have a good weekend!

Thanks for your comments. I would like to work together with you on TT and VSA. I'll get back with you. It will be a few days.

Just a word on GE and the other picks I made: GE - I said in my previous post that 10-26 was sell day. The idea was to sell the longs purchased on the previous day (10-25 - buy day). It opened, traded up, jerked down, but not enough to take out your stopless (depending on where you set it) and then right away traded up to 40.50 just shy of the target 40.55. I indicated it might not reach the target. Came close though. A little after 10:00 and you would be out of the market. Anyway, that was the time to dump your longs unless you decided to do it sooner right after the opening when it went to 40.43. So one is now out with a nice profit. GNTA- It did the unexpected. Open high, not low, and didn't make any BV early in the session. When that happens you can do one of two things. Enter the new data in for a new intraday forecast or just or pass on the play. With penny stocks it is imperative they do as expected or forget it. No play unless you get a new forecast. POTP - Buy day -long at .31 out at .34 just too slow of a rally to hang on for more. SNUS - Sell day - Made a BV but it wasnt enough to bother with - no play MCZ - SS day - Gapped up on the open. No play. This is why with pennies you always want to see the open first. Usualy best to pas but if so inclined one can enter the new data in and get an intraday forecast. CNXT - sell day - Came close to making a BV right after the open but didn't - no play. So, in the pennies only one play materialized today using Taylor. And GE gave a potentially profitable play almost as well as an ideal sell day. I might say this, when trading the pennies using Taylor, generally you want about 20 or more pennies you are watching live on a streamer when the market opens. Before the open you should have already done the taylor analysis and know what you are looking for. Those that have price action that allows using taylor strategy (aren't too far away from the ideal pattern for that day) are those that you look at when considering taking a position. Out of the 20 if you end up with 5 to 8 to trade on and can manage 10,000 shares in each and capture .02 to .04 each share..well you get the idea some fairly good money can be made using Taylor to daytrade the pennies.

I might just say that from the open ..shorting ES at around 1534 would give you a profit of say 7 or 8 pts already as the low has been 1526.00. However, this decline has been for the most part grudgingly. Perhaps it is best not to follow it too far. While the bottom could fall out, it may retrace. Here we are on an SS day after a nice setup on the previous day (sell day 10-25 for a SS day) with a decent profit, by capturing the main trend of the day. Again, Taylor was about getting a goodly slice of that main trend.

To answer that I refer you to my post #115 I thought I had added some value. I have made several detailed posts on Taylor. Show me any other forum that has such detailed explanations of taylor?? Sorry you feel differently. Taylor is a simple but complicated method. Sounds like a paradox...I know. I have attempted to explain ALOT of Taylor that would take many of you months and perhaps years to dig out of his book because of his writing style. Why would I just come up and say openly "this is the way my software calculates the days of the cycle". I am not stupid. I know where the key point is in the whole scheme of the taylor trading method. I am not the brightest around, that is for sure, but it has taken me years to get this down (my software was first written in 2000) and has been adapted as necessary since then. Why should I just say ...ok guys my software calculates the days this way______________? I am contemplating possibly selling my software. I do not know if I will sell it yet but am thinking of doing it. If not, I may just give it away. But even then I won't be won't be telling anybody..."this is the exact way it calculates the cycle" and I won't be just handing out my code. Why should I just give away what has taken me years to develop and somebody else just program it up and sell it themselves? There again I repeat in different words. It is ALWAYS valid. There are variations but all larger declines and rallies have many cycles in them. A simple glance at any daily chart will reveal that. There are variations to how that those cycles are made but all is covered in taylors book. Don't fit the day into the cycle. Find the cycle and the days will fit in with all their variations. Won't because I'm not a dummy!:helloooo: Guys I think it is time I slide off this thread. Hope someone has been helped by some of my posts. It was interesting to see how others adapt Taylor. Can't say I agree with all of it but each has to "float his own boat". I have enjoyed it alot. Read the book. You will find most all your answers there in the book. I may post some thinking on todays market action later in the evening.

Me thinks the market is weak also. However, we must be heads up for when it turns. The ES is the futures contract (december contract) on S&P. Just google futures charts and you will find some place that will let you see the charts for it. Like you say Tc2000 doesn't have it.

GE 10-25 was a buy day. It open, traded up and then down. Presented an opportunity to short and to go long. Tomm 10-26 is a sell day. Sell those longs aquired on 10-25 on any penetration of 40.40 or around 40.55 if possible but watch closley as it is a bit weak and may not make the selling day objective which is 40.55 GNTA for 10-26 - Sell day - Possible BV. Go long on any decline under 1.05. sell longs on any rally back to 1.05 or penetration there of. POTP - 10-26 - buy day- Go long near .32 or .33 sell around .37 or more. SNUS - 10-26 - sell day - Possible BV. Buy on on any declien early in the seeion under .51 once the decline stops. Sell the long same day near .51 or any pentration of .51 MZC - 10-26 SS day short if early in session makes high. Short at 1.18 to 1.20 cover same day 1.14 to 1.15 CNXT- 10-26 - sell day - possible BV early in the session look to buy long on any decline under 1.17 and sell longs same day on any rally to or thru 1.17-1.18. See how it goes tomm.

I'm still laughing..LOL LOL LOL LOL