Adrian

What code is this? It seems to bear no relationship to ELD code. Has anyone managed to get it converted to real ELD or Multicharts in a working format?

I'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week. That has to be one of the easiest choices in human history. And to disagree, means a person has incredibly poor insight and judgement. The lucky win lotto at 18. The skilled are still sitting at their desk at 50, trying to generate an income and accumulate enough savings to one day 'retire'. :doh: The lucky wins lotto again in their 30's. Yep, only a fool would wish to be skillful more than lucky. :rofl:

IS Poker and Trading the Same Thing? Actually no. One is a card game, the other involves financial markets. Hope that clears everything up for everyone. I did make the assumption you were talking about trading as in buying and selling financial on listed commodity, stock and futures exchanges. You may in fact have been talking about trading cards of some kind?

Do you have any thoughts on why it didn't work for you?

It is easy to show big trends in the PAST, where OB/OS indicators seemingly fail, but the reality is that it simply isn't true. The FACTS are that despite what you might hear from a firm that heavily markets trading courses at fairly high prices, and teaching incredibly basic stuff, the FACTS are that the two trends above can be perfectly defined by the use of OB/OS oscillators if one uses some lateral thinking. And one can quite easily get on board also via the same OB/OS indicators and ride the tend quite nicely. The big difference is that when, in the vast majority of cases, these big trends don't take place for most markets, the use of OB/OS oscillators will absolutely kill any traditional basic trend following approach. So the lesson is, don't always believe what you read, and especially so when coming from a person who also happens to sell trading courses. I don't market anything, but simply make comments based on 30 years experience. Is 30 > 20? Does it mean anything? Who knows. LOL

And then how would one define a formula that was similar but not identical? Just a complete can of worms. I am not aware of the ability to patent a mathematical formula either. Value charts are in the public domain anyway, and have been for years. It's never been used much because well, their isn't a lot of 'value' in 'value charts' LOL.

OP = Original Post C = Coach (hold your cursor over the icon to see)

@ZDO you have to smell it to work out it is simply a detrended price series? HUH? Every oscillator is a detrended price series. That's why they oscillate in a range and don't have trends.Hardly anything earth shattering there. @Swingtrader Agree. And that was the exact light with which I looked at the indicator. Just like any indicator it is of no use by itself. If one uses oscillators, they need to be used in a larger context. The most obvious being with a trend. But even when doing that I found the Value Charts had just way too many flaws. Studying this indicator will highlight some of the floors to using detrended type indicators. Sound great in theory, but in practice not so good.

Ignore those Value charts. They look good at first glance, but once you take a closer look, they fall over badly. I studied them years ago, and concluded they are largely a waste of time. Why? Because they don't represent the points where you want to enter or exit a market. They often represent momentum extremes, but trends do NOT end at momentum extremes. Virtually ANY oscillator will work in a perfectly formed sideways market. But unless you can RELIABLY tell when a market is in one and not in one (and due to complex cycle interaction you rarely can), then you end up wasting your time. Value charts will encourage you to behave like one of the earlier 'pro' posters LOL. You will end up trading against the trends all the time and lose a ton of money despite what he says professionals do...THEY DON'T. Beginner and even experienced traders should largely avoid reading this thread altogether as it is full of absolutely appalling information.

@Bluehorsehoe Can you tell me which issue of Bryant's you are referring to please, as I have them all saved.

@BlueHorseshoe A statistician will tell you, you need 30 trades to be statistically significant. When it comes to trading though, they haven't a clue what they are talking about. Some traders will tell you they wish to see hundreds or even thousands of trades to validate a model. They also do not know what they are talking about. I have absolutely no problems at all with the sample of 60 trades or so over the large time period. Why? Because when you understand markets and what is important, then you simply don't need a sample of hundreds of trades. Do you think Warren Buffet needs to see hundreds of sample trades to know that buying a business at a low price relative to its earning potential will work or not? Obviously not. Those with experience 'just know' because its obvious. When it comes to trading models, what's important is testing over different market environments, and understanding how and if the model is designed to deal with them adequately. Certainly you would have to be extremely patient, and be trading other models as well beside the RSI model, as the trades are few and far between, but that is irrelevant as to its validity or not. Now if a short term model was presented with 60 trades over the last month was presented, then I would laregly dismiss it until it was tested over a much larger database. Why? Because 1 month of intraday data is NOT indicative at all, of the type of market environments that lie ahead in coming years. The robustness of the variables is also of clear importance, but even there you need to be very careful. You can't simply test an RSI from 1 to 10 and see if the model keeps working. Markets are more complex than that. A 10 period RSI won't reach the same extremes a 2 period will. So you might try adjusting the oversold level with it, but even there it isn't that simple. A 2 period RSI will show situations that simply cannot occur with larger period RSI's. This is why creating a successful and robust model is far more difficult than most think. It requires a great understandsing of markets in the first place.

My question to you ValueTrader is, why are you reading a Thread under Automated Trading when you don't believe in it? Surely it would be a serious waste of your time, or are you simply out to prop up your own insecurities and ego by attacking others for their generous posts? I am fascinated to understand the mind of people who are insecure, as they are usually the ones we take the money from in the end.

My spelling ability is fine ValueTrader, but posts like yours simply aren't worth my time to bother checking. I only do that with people I respect. But I'm well versed with people who need to resort to abusing a posters spelling, as it is a textbook sign they know they havent a leg to sptand on, and are simply trying to deflect the discussion from their own baseless claims and accustations. Next thing you'll be making a reference to sleeping with my mother I presume LOL. That would truly be sad, as only the lowest scum on the planet take that line. You also seem to have a severe inferiority complex, as you like belittling people who provide GOOD information. So you are hardly the kind of person we wish to have on this forum. Quite sure at least 90% of readers will agree on that. Protective of the RSI?? LOL What on earth are you talking about? It is now even more clear you need to make yourself feel good by attacking others, because you obviously don't even bother reading people's posts properly, nor even understand what they are saying. I made no mention of the RSI, nor whether I had an affinitity with it. How bizarre. In fact, if it wasn't obvious to anyone with an IQ > 50, my first post had absolutely nothing to do with the actual content of the trading model at all. I didn't 'call' you arrogant, I simply stated a factual situation. Nothing more. Why on earth would I care where you were employed? I don't even care who you are. And I certainly have no interest in massaging your misaligned ego trip further. Finally, you seem to have an affinity with bedrooms. I am assuming you are talking about your own situation. Do you live out of a rented studio apartment? Certainly you do not know who I am, nor my living situation. Therefore, only a complete fool would even make such absurd guesses at my living situation LOL Truly hilarious. How embarassing for you, as clearly, by suggesting I am the one looking foolish, it is in fact you look about as dumb as anyone could possibly portray themselves. PLEASE do not post to the Traders Laboratory forum unless you can post something constructive.

BTW ValueTrader, you should show a little more respect to someone who has generously posted with full discloser a profitable trading system, something very very rare on any forum. Your arrogance shows you clearly have some serious issues and likely resent him for being profitable when you can't do the same. And please don't bother writing a come back with some snide remark to try and defend your situaion. It is truly black and white. You have your views and the world has another....its as simple as that.