Hlm

I know this is a little off topic so I will keep it short. I believe that many of those who scale out do it incorrectly. The market is extremely dynamic so you must be as well. In order to know where to scale out you must understand the time frames, S/R, Supply/Demand, etc that are around you. By knowing and understanding these areas you can estimate rough probabilities of them getting hit during certain situations. This will allow you to keep more on for trending days and take most off during consolidation days. I believe that the concept itself is somewhat "one size fits all" but how you measure these levels and create probabilities can vary dramatically. Of course this is a more advanced way of thinking and takes lots of studying and screen time. This is why you find many newer traders taking a large portion off quickly at a fixed amount and then trailing a smaller portion looking for the larger trend. It's kind of a quick fix to the problem. I also agree with what BlowFish said.

You have to start a new thread specifically for the poll and then it's an option at the bottom. Or else you might be able to edit this one and add it.

This thread was created on 04-10-2008? Wow, I completely missed it. Pretty much any day is usually okay for me. Maybe we should get a few polls together with "times" and "topics" for those that are interested. Paltalk seems to be a good room unless we discuss a topic where live desktop streaming would be beneficial.

Funny that you mention this. I was over at Brett Steenbarger's weblog TraderFeed (in my opinion the best blog out there on trader psychology) and just saw his post today about a free webinar on Thursday hosted by IOAMT. Of course you have to sign up for a "free five-day trial membership". I just thought I would pass that along.

First of all, it depends on what you mean by "Market Profile". There are different degrees of how strictly one trades MP theory and what other information they bring to the table. Also, do you want to focus on TPO or Volume MP? There is a large amount of information out there pertaining to MP if one just searches (forums, books, etc). I would be very hesitant to sign up for a service to learn MP without first studying as much as you can on your own first. This will allow you to choose an educational service that best fits your personality and needs. What is your current knowledge with MP and trading in general?

Yes, your last post DID have reason and that is why I agreed with almost everything you said :o. And remember, there was another individual doing the majority of the pointless bashing and many responses were geared towards him if I did not specifically name you. You referred to me as someone who is beguiling people. In my book that's' an insult. I am mearly trying to explain to the bashers (not you necessarily ) that the "charade" that goes on in the "demo room" does not represent the information in the educational course. Do I believe that they are going about the demo room the wrong way...probably, but why would I care? However, like I had said almost all the traders I know that have had a part of TTZ do not spend time in the room since it's an educational services and not a signal calling service. It's no different than going to a seminar. However, I guess it's a little different since they do have ongoing training every week. But all the bashing is towards the "demo room" and Sec the scalper. Both having very little to do with the few trades that Greg calls and are created by their "methodology".

In my book this last comment is a "valid concern" which I said I would reply to. I'll keep it simple and to the point. As far as I can see I don't disagree with anything you said about Sec. However, every member I have talked to joined to learn Greg's trading strategy and NOT Sec's. You aren't paying for the demo room. You are paying for the educational material and weekly training sessions. The majority of traders want to trade less and not more and find that the handful of trades made by Greg and his strategy as enough. This is why many of their stronger traders do not spend their day in the demo room. Why would they? As always due your own due diligence. P.S. You can call me what you want. Those that know me know that I am in no way promoting this service and that's all that matters. I actually warn people to shop around and make sure that the education they choose fits their personality. There are many differently ways to get the job done in this business. I am only protecting a service that I am well informed of from pointless bashing.

And the funny thing is that to get it "done right" costs a fraction of that. :doh:

Again another pointless post. Why would anyone turn over their tax return to a complete stranger? At least your bashing is getting better. You are using arguments that obviously can't or won't be proven either way. Seriously man, head over to the OTHER forum. They will probably bow at your feet and worship your almighty knowledge. Well, I am done posting in this thread unless someone brings up a valid question or concern about this service. I most likely already wasted too much time over here. I am sure the majority of people can see who the idiotic bashers are. I said what I felt needed to be said specifically for TTZ and in general about random pointless and baseless bashing of educational services. As always, due your own due diligence and take any negative OR positive opinions with a grain of salt.

Well, I had a nice walk outside with the family. It is such a beautiful Sunday afternoon. First comment I am going to make here isn't really even TTZ related. I know many successful traders that sometimes, if not all the time, take a large percentage of the trade off in two or three ticks. Anyone who has day traded the ES should at least understand part of the reasoning behind this. This allows them more room when the price comes back to test the entry. A successful momentum trader can hit that first "burst" of momentum with high percentage. At this point why wouldn't an individual take some profit off to allow room while looking for the greater trend to carry it further? Of course this theory might not make much sense to an individual who doesn't trade pure momentum. When an individual comes across and puts down a trading method (here it is taking profit off early) without giving specific reasons as to why they feel it's wrong and even more importunately a detailed replacement of a better approach it sends up a red flag. Many times those that say it can't be done are really just saying that they can't do it. In trading there are many different ways to get the job done. Any more discussion on this concept can be discussed in another thread since to continue here would be off topic. As far as your comments about the head guy, how is one to know if they are based in reality? Have you seen his personal trading account? I have heard that he preaches that an individual should trade one contract for every 10k (or was it more, I can't quite remember). So again, baseless information. As far as you doubting he makes any money trading...it's your right to doubt and I have absolutely no problem with that. It's only when baseless information comes into play do I get annoyed with individuals like you.

So I take it that this is quality post #3? Any specific examples of the lies? I am sure everyone would like to know since this is an INFORMATIONAL forum. Like I told you before, take your mindless bashing bantar to the OTHER forum please. EDIT: Unable to comment on your last post at this time. But will later.

Wow, a SECOND quality post from you. :o Well, I guess I better listen to you. You seen to know what's best. But in all seriousness, I didn't quite understand the last line. It must be some intelligent bantar that's over my head.

After discussing details with a trader friend of mine who currently basis his method strongly off the "TTZ Methodology" I have enough information to reply... Gator trades the same way that Greg does. They base their setups off a 3m chart as they openly discuss in the demo room. Sec on the other hand takes the basic 3m setups and trades it off pure price action, or a tick chart. Both Greg and Gator discourage any new traders to trade like Sec. Hopefully this is making sense. So they are all trading the same "methodology" but Sec is trading it on a much smaller time frame which is way more difficult. As far as PnL, my friend gave me a few excuses but I am not going to go into them here since there is no reason for the conversation to be tilted that way since they aren't a signal calling room. The one thing I will repeat was the fact that "anyone with half a brain could sit in the room and listen to only Greg's calls and realize that money can be made". This is the primarily reason for the room. So yes, their marketing technique may not be the best but doesn't seem to carry over to the actual education. That's great. You may be in a different place or have a different style/personality where you wouldn't get any use...and more power to you. I wouldn't pay for the service either. However, the reason is not because I think they are a scam. I have seen scams and they are far from it. It's because I already have a very good grasp at how Market Profile works and already have my own profitable strategy. It completely depends on your personality and where you are in your trading venture. Let me rephrase it this way...for someone who appears to have spent only a little time in the room, you sure seem to have strong feelings that it's a scam. Yes, you have your friend (X). However, I also know a few traders that are members and have had positive experiences. Non of them claim for it to be the holy grail. This is why I am so "aggressive". Sign up, don't sign up...I don't really care since I am no way affiliated with them. However, to make the blanket statement "Run -don't walk- away" and give little hard evidence or reason as to why, is as much BS as you claim the service is. Fair enough. I don't really have a "horse in this race" either. I am just in a position where I know enough about this particular service to see when unfair information is being displayed. But then again in this business and online a truly unbiased opinion that tries to give a look at the other side will most likely be taken as either A) Someone working for the "scam" or B) A basher working for the other "scam". This is why one must ALWAYS do their own due diligence.

I will reply to you as soon as I have a chance to discuss specifics with a current member.

And here is the logical answer to your question... From what I have seen, Greg only takes the standard TTZ setups that he teaches (unlike the Scalper who apparently trades it in a much smaller time frame). Greg also rarely trades during lunchtime unless the liquidity is there. My guess is that this puts him at about three to eight trades a day (someone correct me if I am wrong). As you can imagine, this would create a large amount of dead time since it's a demo room and not an educational room. This is where the Scalper and Floor Trader come in to fill the dead time. When I popped in there many months ago Greg also occasional played music and messed around during lunch when neither the Scalper or Floor Trader was there. I guess he could just put a recorded audio infomercial that repeats in the background . Also, the short time I sat in their room I did learn a few things from the Floor Trader describing what was going on in the Squawk Box. The fact is that unless you are scalping for ticks, day trading can and most likely will have a lot of dead time. So back to your question...if you went to check out a room, how long would you stay if there were one to two hours of dead time between calls? The Trading Zone doesn't advertise as a trade calling service. They advertise as an educational service to provide information on how to trade without them. This also goes for all the other trading services out there that teach education versus paying for a "buy here, sell here" signal service. People need to stop mixing up the two.

I am not looking for a room, however I was disappointed to see that the video section was empty. I do agree that having a live feed of ones DOM on a live account would be a very nice touch. One that is not found by the majority (if not all) of services. I still don't understand why so many of these services have crappy sites. It is really not that difficult to get a decent looking site that works. Seriously, what is going on!

tickiman, So this is how you write your very first post? By bashing a service without any evidence or specifics. And no, I am not specifically sticking up for The Trading Zone. My reply would be the same for any service that gets a similar reply (I am sick of posts like these). For you to come on here and bash ANY service without giving ANY meaningful information to back your claim is idiotic. Here at TL we like to keep posts/threads informational and useful. Unless you would like to discuss specifics please take the currently displayed pointless rantings to the OTHER forum where it will be gladly accepted with open arms. Actually...here's a better idea. There are currently 39 pages of back and fourth banter over at the OTHER forum. Anyone who wishes can view them HERE. So unless someone has new information that is not currently displayed over on that site, let's keep it clean over here. Also, it is $2,600 and does your comment "Guys And Traders" imply that traders aren't guys. *Note: After rereading my reply above I have realized that it sounds much more harsh than I actually mean it to. However, I am not going to change it because I feel all the information is required. As would be expected. Also, for your comments associated with the scalper in the room. I completely agree. From the short time I spent in there and others I know that are currently trading the system, everyone agrees that he is being used as a filler and an unrealistic one. To put the rest of you comment into perspective...that seems to be a major reason why many of the members do not stay in the room. The room doesn't give any more information that the members need which is why it's called a demo room. The head guy doesn't promote shadow trading (quite the opposite). To be honest, from what I have heard it seems like the "weaker" traders are the ones that stay in the room while like with any other service, the strong ones take the information they have learned, tweak it into their own style, and move on. As with any system/strategy/seminar some people will get a lot from it because it fits their personality, style, and goals. While others will find very little useful information and feel scammed.

Infinity has a 30 day demo of their DOM platform. You can also get a 30 day demo of SierraCharts (their charting platform). As brownsfan mentioned, openecry is also very nice. Infinity's thread on TL can be found here.

Oh crap, nice catch DbPhoenix. What I meant was "candlesticks" :doh:. I only use OHLC Bars on fast tick charts when reading inside the candlestick. That keeps me focused on the actual movement versus the bull/bear colors. Again thank you...I didn't want anyone to get confused. As far as volume bars, I don't use any. The tick charts give me enough "market action" and much of my volume analysis is done via VWAP. Side Note: "Via VWAP" is suprisingly fun to say. Go ahead, try it.

It's not how you get the information but how you use it. Be it Candles, VSA, Market Profile, etc...it's about understanding how the timeframes/fractals are interacting with one another. It's about finding the spot where you can enter on a lower timeframe and exit on a higher. This can be done with any of the ways listed above. For me personally, I like to see pure momentum on the smallest timeframe and use tick charts (story inside the bar). For my largest timeframe I use Market Profile because it gives me more information than a standard bar (daily for example). My central timeframe is 3m and consists largely on basic candle analysis. Could an individual trade successfully using ONLY "time" bar charts...yes. The important thing in my opinion is to have enough information displayed where you can see the smaller and larger forces at work around your main timeframe. Back to the original post (got a little off topic there)... What type of discussion exactly do you want to see over here at the CC? I do believe that many people do get caught up in the other areas and lose site of the 'basics'. Is this where I insert "ALL HAIL CANDLESTICKS"?

I currently don't actively trade stocks but I have had a lot of fun on this site over the last couple of days. www.finviz.com The screener is really nice and they just added the ability to search by technical patterns. The market maps are interactive and are almost as fun as live.com or google.com maps . Also, the charts pop up on symbol mouse over for quick viewing. You can watch a guided tour here. There is also a portfolio feature which I have yet to try out. And the best thing is that it's all free. Just thought I would share.

Yes, very nice. I'm in a rush but since you asked here are a few other suggestions off the top of my head ... Allow the user to change the text settings. For example, you are calling the site http://www.forexfactory.com/excal.php?show=1&color1=transparent&color2=transparent&color3=transparent&color4=%23FFFFFF&color5=%23000000&color6=%23FFFFFF&color7=%23FFFFFF&color8=%23000000&color9=&fontsize=12&dark_icons=1 You can view the text settings available here: http://www.forexfactory.com/excal.php This can be done two ways... 1) Allow the user to change the link settings via the program. 2) Allow the user to insert their OWN url into the program. The user could then go to the second link, select their choices, and then paste the generated url into the program (the easiest way). For the opacity, it would be nice if there was an option to make the window solid when you mouse over. Then you can quickly have the best of both worlds. An alarm for news would be very nice. A user could select the impact level and desired amount of warning. Programming wise this would need to extract the data displayed into tables to compare time, etc. Data mining would take the complexity to another level though and I don't know if you want to go past the iframe simplicity approach. However once this programming is done it would open up much more personalization for the end user. Just something to think about. Instead of having pre selected numbers for refresh and opacity, it might be easier to just have a box to enter the desired level (1-100 for opacity and time in seconds) and a "disable" selection (which would grey out the box when selected). The ability to save settings is probably the biggest suggestion I have. This should include the ability for it to position itself correctly on the screen as well. I like the fact that you can move the window to a position and then "stick" it there by removing the border.

Exactly...in this business there are many ways to get the job done. The money management I described works very well for MY style of trading. I probably play much tighter than your standard active daytrader. When possible I like to save the gambling for the poker table . The main purpose of my post was to show an example of a dynamic style that's different than what's normally taught. I do feel very strongly that one should have a thought out daily stop placed in advance. How much and if it's dynamic depends on your style. I will leave it at that before I start quoting Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler".

This is such a TRUE statement. However, I would remove the word "possibly" . In my experience (and others I have talked to) automating a real trading edge correctly is extremely difficult. It can be a real eye opener to the way you actually trade. The big danger when automating is getting off track. When trying to simplify your trading to fit nicely into signals you will discover that your profit will drop dramatically. This will create a tendency to curve fit areas without realizing it which is very dangerous. Over the last six months or so I have carefully traveled down this road of automation (as many of you know). So far my total research, development, and programming has totaled several hundred hours. It has been a very interesting experience to say the least. If you want to bounce some ideas off me feel free to send a message my way. I wish you luck.

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