Gekko78

:confused: what?

Oh sorry I forgot to include that in the post......It's not a secret or anything.....It is just Trading in the Zone .....I am sure many have read it and are familiar with it .........

Here is something I have really never been able to grasp about questions like this...... I always assume that ALL trades are 50-50 ........ The price can only go 1 of 2 ways 1) it either goes down and hits your stop 2) It goes up and hits your target. Yes price can go sideways but I do not count that as it will eventually get to one of the above mentioned....... Even if you have this "great system" that shows when a set up happens it will work 90% of the time .....it still always has a 50-50 shot once the trade is placed. Just like the coin flip is always 50-50 , yes it can land on heads/tails 10 times in a row but when the flip actually happens it is still always 50-50 If someone could explain otherwise to me I would appreciate it. Thanks

I don't care if the market goes up or if it goes down......as long is it goes somewhere.

Amateurs want to be right. Professionals want to make money.

Also pertaining to "systems" and "methods" and how they relate to each person is critical as well. Being comfortable with your emotions is not just about MM. It also lends itself to the style and time frame you are comfortable with. As an example I have read , seen and heard from a number of traders in all markets that one should start with higher time frames as the success rate is better than say a 5 or 15 min chart . While I understand this ....this is something I have never been able to do .....I do not like longer time frames in fact , I could say I hate them.......so my brain already goes against longer time frames......Even when I tried to use them I failed miserably.....my wiring is not set up to accept longer time frames and that is that. So I do not try and force myself to trade the time frames I do not like. My personality is that of a short term scalper.....No , not for the quick buck but, for the quick time........Time is my enemy ....the longer I am in a trade the more likely I am to convince myself that I am wrong.....Also with the longer time frames I have a tendency to take profits to quickly. Having a target of say 60 and it reaching 30 I would say " ok 30 is enough I will just take that instead of letting it run to 60. With scalping I am in and out usually within 5-10 minutes. That is what I need .....the more time I have to "think" and "analyze" the worse I become. So instead of trying to change my weaknesses I play to my strengths.....which is short time frames. This makes me comfortable and comfort emotionally and mentally is key when trading. I do get upset when I read on forums and people say "scalping does not work" What they should be saying is "scalping does not work for me" However, most people I know scalp for the wrong reason ...they scalp because they think it gives them the ability to use more leverage with smaller stop and make money faster ......THAT kind of scalping is what gets people in trouble ....I do not do that .....I scalp for a different reason ......Hey I like leverage just as much as the next guy but I rarely use it......I trade 1 contract ......MAYBE 2 depending on conditions. So when you are trying to control your emotions it is more than just being able to hadle wins and losses there is a lot more that most people do not factor in. Figure out what type of person you are first.........are you ok with letting a trade last for 3-4 days to hit your target or will you go nuts watching it?> There is no wrong answer to this question but , the answer for each individual person is key to their long term success. :missy:

Mystic, I as well used to up to my eyeballs in all kinds of indicators.....I used to have so many indicators on my charts that I could barely see the price......I had all these "rules" and requirements that needed to be met before I would place a trade. The problem was that since so many things need to line up at the same time I hardly ever was able to take a trade. Even when I would take a trade I would get out to early and miss out and big moves. I finally came across a book that totally changed my trading life......after I read that book , I deleted everything , except price , off my charts and started over. Realizing that there is only 1 POSSIBLE leading indicator that could exist and that is price. All over indicators are based on price. The thing you always here when watching someone trade or reading a trading website is " Past performance is not indicative of future results" well that same statement also applies to indicators. So with price as my guide I developed a method that allowed me to see the markets for what it truly is ......simply buyers and sellers coming together. With these things in mind I was able to focus more and control my emotional state a lot more. Since I had developed my own method I trusted it much more than anything I saw on a forum. Now my charts are very clean (see attached) and allow me take set ups more frequently with better returns........ One thing that really helped me emotionally was just assuming that the money I had in my account was already lost since I do not need it to survive. It is a good supplement but not critical......With that in mind if the money is already lost then I have nothing to lose. This let me be calm and jut trade . If I win great! If I lose that is fine to....losses happen. You can have the greatest method or system in the world but without proper execution of it and understanding of the market it becomes as useless as tits on a boar hog

Tough to answer what is good and what is not. It depends on what you set for yourself. One of my friends who started trading FX recently only started with $500 ......he made $500 in a few months but he took CRAZY risk.....bet it all every time .....he got lucky ..... so his % is 100 which is good % wise but horrible risk wise....... I do not look for a % of my capital ....... P and L tells the story ...... you are either making consistent money or you are not....... If you have to set a % I would wait until you have traded successfully for a year then use that ......a few months is not enough time. you are kicking A$$ though.....I wish I had the motivation when I was 16 Most investors want to see someone with 3-5 years of consistent returns before they even consider investing . I know you are not a manger I just stating.

It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a zero sum game, somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another. Gordon Gekko

Looks like the heart test I had done last week!

Yes I heard this one a long time ago........Bartender= Bar Tender since termites eat wood....

Yes , Happy Days.........It was all downhill from there.

Man this thread has really plummeted since the bursting of the bridge riddle bubble........

Like I said in my other post : Those who can ....................................

Thanks Yes I studied that theory in my BA degree a few years ago and it does hold true. Self esteem needs to be changed but it cannot happen overnight ( like the lottery people) and it can be quite hard when you have been programmed your whole life to think you are not as good as others......it takes a long time. I learned (finally) a long time ago that emotions and your emotional state are keys to success in trading , and almost anything is life for that matter , the ability to harness these things and control them are what separate the lucky ones from the consistent ones.

Blue , Yes you are right about some people who teach .......but I would say more people who teach are not successful in what they teach. It reminds me of people who try and tell you how to start a business and be successful yet , they have never done it themselves they just know what "should" work ...... College professors and Politicians often fall into this category from my experience. In fact I am taking a course right now in IT. We sit there and laugh about much of what she says as she has been out of the game for some time. Her information would be relevant if we were say , still in the 1990's . What she teaches "used" to be relevant but now I can learn more for free over the internet. She says she just likes teaching and will do it until she cannot anymore. Sadly there are many others like her in the world doing the exact same thing.......teaching outdated methods so they can get $$ I didn't really think about the $250,000 person in a % return situation ...I should have said like $2,000,000 or something ...I was just trying to make the point of a killing to one person is different than a killing to another.

Hello friends, I was asked today, by a friend who always overhears me talk about trading, are you rich? Do you make a killing in the market? How do I get started?? I said not I am not rich and I said what is your definition of a killing?? For a person who makes $20,000 a year , making 1000 a week trading is a killing , but to someone who makes $250,000 a year , a $1000 a week is ok. I said maybe I "could" make a killing but I honestly have not tried to.......I started trading because I have loved the markets since I Was a kid and I love money so the two go hand in hand... I trade now just to help supplement my wife's income so she can stay at home with my son and he can be raised by a parent instead of a stranger Would I love to make millions every year?? Of course who wouldn't However , I am not mentally or emotionally ready to handle that kind of cash and if I tried , at least right now , I am pretty sure I would fail.......It is the same reason why you read about poor people who win the lottery for 200 million dollars only to lose it all just a few short years later......subconsciously they were not ready to have that kind of cash......their mind and sub conscience forced them to get rid of the money and get to a level they felt comfortable at Everyone has a level of self worth whether you believe it or not it is true. Have you ever run across someone who keeps themselves from being successful? It seems like they are giving countless opportunities to succeed yet the either do not take it or fail miserably at it?? These are the exact people I am talking about ...I know because I lived with one for 20 years. Many people on forums claim to be successful and making serious money in trading.....all truth be told I seriously doubt most of them are ........Remember that old saying : "Those who can .....do , those who cannot ......teach" It also depends on what you own personal definition of success is.....The best definition I have ever come across was by an unknown author who said " Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal" In short this means that you are doing what you set out to do and actually pulling it of...........Success in NOT money in the bank , it is not a car or a house......It is the woman who quits her job to stay at home with her newborn son because that's what she wanted to do......if she does it and pulls it off she is a smashing success......It is the man who quits being a lawyer and moves up to a mountain top and feed the squirrels because that's what he wanted to do......if he goes and does it and pulls it off he also is a smashing success. If your goals is to simply make $5 a week and you do it then you are a success.......In my mind I am successful because I set out to trade to supplement my wifes income so she can stay home and I am pulling it off ( at least for now ) so I am a success. Anyway ....I am a hundredaire ......and am perfectly happy making a few hundred bucks a week from the market until such time when I feel ready to become a thousandaire! So who is with me?? Who is also content and happy to be a hundredaire??!!!!!! :applaud:

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Since I am not a statistician I cannot really comment on this ....I am but a simple trader who just tries to buy low and sell high or sell high and buy low........sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't ......... I judge my trading method and skills by the number I see in my excel sheet at the end of the week hopefully its a + but if it is a - then thats ok to......As long as I have more +'s than -'s I'm good.

I like this answer . This is somewhat of my initial response when I was first asked this question. It took my 7 years of losses, blown accounts, stress, hundreds of hours of chart time ( just ask my wife ) method after method testing to finally get to where I am with a system I created on my own.......to just give it away when asked , to me is an insult. Would I assist people and perhaps point them in the right direction as far as how to get started ? Perhaps as long as it did not interfere with my own trading and my ability to earn income from that. Yes I said "EARNED" no one makes money unless they work for the mint. You earn it , whether its punching a clock and lifting boxes all day or trading or whatever. So I would make someone else earn their own money unless they wanted me to trade for them which I would then charge a fee for since I also earned money for them as well.

Yes the turtle system.....this ties in with my comment about systems losing their ability once to many people find out about it. The turtles and their coaches traded the system successfully at one point. The creators of the system made them all sing confidentiality agreements stating that they were not allowed to share the system with anyone. Once the agreements expired they sang like canary's to exploit the profit potential of selling the "system" itself not the fact that it worked......what happened?>? It did not work as well as it once did. Look up any of the turtles and they all say they trade other systems now with a few components of the original system but the original one by itself does not work well anymore. The thing I loved about their system was the fact that it was so basic...... Once people found out how it worked they said " That's it?? " Simple is always the way to go.

I traded binary options with Banc De Binary last year..... was ok at it... Made some money , lost some money . Not really for me ....the thing I did not like about it is that in order to really make make money you have to be right more than 50% of the time. With regular trading this is not the case..... I addition its pretty much an all or nothing bet.........1 point away from your target = loss Now some companies allow you to protect some of your capital .....you can choose to retain some money if you lose but your payout if you win is a lot lower. To me this is gambling. it is like rolling the dice. At least with trading you have the option to get out with small /gain .....I have not really seen any decent strategy that allows for winning . As far as demo trading the last time I checked you have to fund and account in order to get a demo.....at least thats how it was last year may have changed since.

Blue , Yes I agree with you here. I really do not have hard "profit targets" I have a location where I would like the trade to go but how do we know that the market will hit it and not shoot right through it and continue higher/lower?? Yes we have trailing stops to help with that but those can also hurt you. When I was trading FX I used trailing stops all the time and the problem with them is that the market whips back all the time many times right to your original entry ....you get stopped out only to see the trade go back in your original direction 40-50 pips.....happens all the time. I like the "market" to tell me when to get out , not an automatic stop. I have lost out on much additional $$$ because of TS. Trading small is key in the beginning in my opinion .......it allows you to access markets with a smaller amount of capital and have access to leverage. But , just because the leverage is there does not mean you have to use it. Your emotional state needs to be able to handle the leverage first before you can utilize it and this does not happen overnight. The problem for new traders in FX is that they see they can make say $5 a pip on a 5 mini lot order and they think ......sweet all I need is a quick 20 pips and I made $100!! The problem is as soon as they enter the trade they are already down $10 ( assuming 2 pip spread on EUR/USD) and they freak out .....as the lose $10 turns into 15, 20 , 30 in a matter of seconds...... This is hard for new people to handle .......so they get right out only to see the trade go their direction after they get out.........They do not understand emotionally how to handle it. What helped me achieve success ( after losing my account ) was first finding my "F$ck it" number......that is the amount of money that I am comfortable losing mentally that does not affect me emotionally. So if I had a $1000 account , maybe that would $10 in the beginning....maybe $20......then as I build my account my "F$ck it" number increases as does my emotional stability. I think success in trading is 90% emotional and 10% all the other things like RR , MM , entry , exits and such.

Shoot myself then let the FX trader figure it out.

I read a book by Ken Fisher where he says the "new normal" is the "old normal" and that there is in fact no "new normal" just recycled things from history that others are not aware of so they call them "new" So the new normal , is the old normal and the old normal is in fact the new normal. So the new normal is quite old which makes it new ......you see??:hmmmm: Lots of interesting facts in that book .