Vince50

Oh no, my man, you are a long term trader in my world. First of all the REAL derinition of scalping is" Too many trades holding too little time for too little profit to be able to overcome the spread and commissions and slippage." Thats the real definition. But to me, what I would call a scalper is merely someone who is using very small time frames, often 1 minute charts or volume charts that change every 30 seconds and they are trying to squeeze lets say 5-10 pips out of a trade the minute the last bars high is broken and get out at the first sign of a retrace of that bar. In fact a scalper holding more than 15 minutes is a "home run" for him. Ive seen scalpers get in on a one min bar as it breaks over that doji and after they are up 5 pips set the stop at be + 2pips or pennys, and when they get stopped they book that 2 pips as a win!!! Thats not a game I want any part of. Of course you have the MANUAL scalpers that try trend following but will only buy on the bid and set the stop loss 2 ticks(lets say s&p futures) away and they keep hoping for that one move where it just keeps going and they are willing to get out at be to get that one 20 pip move. Or...I simply know traders who use 5 min bars to trade and as soon as price goes 3 pips or 3 incements in futures against them they jump out on the "theory" theat they can jump back in again when the trend resumes.(as if it ever stopped! lol). hERS WHAT I SEE IN MOST SCALP ROOMS. They try to buy the future on the bid, give it 15 seconds and if no fill then pay the offer,whatever it is..on getting out same thing, they try to sell on the offer, and wait 15 seconds. thats too much work for me!!!! -) But any scalperish type style where a guy is usually looking to go in and out, in and out for like 2 hours, make a measly 100 dollars days pay and quit is an animal that I think The forex industry wants back and therefore it makes sense that they would have 1 pip spreads as they would love a guy that trades 4 times an hour round turn than twice per day. There seemed to be no reason for equitoes to get off decimalization as that 1/16 or "steeny" as we brokers called it seemed like nothing. Its like a 3.3 pip spread today in spot forex and we both know that at the end of the year its murder!!! They may even eventually offer 1/4 pip spreads as they devise ways to get your money in hidden fees but that would only be the small firms dealing with suckers. Tell you another thing I learned as a professional poker player and also a casino dealer. In most poker games, if the house is cutting 5% each pt, there will be no winners as a rule by the end of the night. The pros argue since they play so tight and infrequently it doesnt addect them. Mathemeticians also argue that point. That the "cut' only affects the loose and bad players. But I know something they dont. What happens to that expert player who is sitting there for 3 hours or more just waiting to get that pair of aces or kings to jump in real aggressive and take the suckers money with? Well......depending on how much damage the house cut did at that point, he may wind up with half the size pot he would have had with no or a small cut becaus the bad players lost their money and went home as the cut ate them up!!! Do you see the analogy on a slightly longer term basis in our game. Equities, futures, forex, name it.......all the really bad traders whose money we need to feed off of are always disappearing...because they all died a death of "overtrading." Overtrading by itself should produce a break even result though. why should overtrading hrt? because of the spread, the the slippage,commission and all the antics they pull behind the schenes to make sure you are always paying too much and getting too little when getting out. dont ask me how, they do it. people think because they bought on the bid they got over? i will just say this, i worked for a firm that was a market maker in a stock that was .49bid/.50 offer. When people bought they paid 50 cents per share. when they sold (always months later for some reason lol) the bid went from .49 to .02 in 45 seconds. We'd call them back, tell them a huge seller came in, they should by some more!!!! so now they hold the stock another 6 months!!!! If the y called the regulators on my firm we had another mm go on the offer for us to say he knocked the stock down himself. 3 mms working in cahoots can outwit 99% of regulators. So many games they play i can tell you many, but anyway we are getting off topic, the legit regular spread, will eat up any scalper that exists. plus sooner or later he gets stuck in a trade and loses his whole weeks "pay" in one trade.we all know this...... BOTTOM LINE: Im day trading 5 years, swing trADING 15, and I can count on one hand how many traders who were making a living 5 years ago are even still around. where did theier money go? The spread monster. Picture a gremlin from pac man or a rat with sharp tiny teeth gobbling away at every trade you make. Let me prove something....remember in the late 90's a trader could make a fortune just following momentum and be flat by end of day. why are all those guys broke? because the bigger fool, the other traders who would take his stock off his hands went broke first, then the next level down and the next, and thenext. there has to be at least 50 levels of traders from the bottom of a move to the end of a move whether its a 5 min chart but especially if using day charts. as they grind out the traders who always buy at the top, guess what...................we have smaller and smaller tops for a while as thois eguys who make the hill into a mountain disappear and now we pros have to wait, sometimes many months, in a bad cycle, a couple of years for new suck- I mean traders to come around. The spread monster is always eating and unlike the lion, never sleeps.

I agree negotiator. If one has only 2500 to put into a futures acct, save $1500, put 1000 into a forex acct and you can trade micro lots which are increments of 10 cents! That means on 15 min bars you can have a 20-30 pip stop and only lose 2 or 3 dollars when starting out!!!! I promise anyone here, youll feel just as happy winning $3 on a 30 pip win, than winning $100 on a futures trade. know why? No stress! And you know that whenever your ready yopu can go to 2 then 3 then 4 then 10 micro lots at 10 cents each. you control how much you put in. A good suggestion for people like myself who are fibonacci players is to go in with 3 contracts, that will be 30 cents eacxh tick, and peel one off at target one, peel one off at target 2 and another________???????(whenever you want!) so a 30 pip trade costs you at most 9 dollars!!!! and youll have a lot of fun. $2500 ISNT MUCH FOR FUTURES ESPECIALLY IF YOU have a system that requires more than 1 lot or 1 contract to be used at one time. good luck.

Good attitude Jeff. Let me leave you with a wise remark one of the market wizards said in the book:" If you cant describe your trading system so simply that it would fit on the back of an envelope, something is wrong." Can you Jeff or anyone on this thread describe their method or system in one or 2 paragraphs that we'd all know how to use it and make money? Maybe we should start a thread just for that. You see I dont believe that trading is 90% psychology. Thats the crap supposed "pros" tell you when they dont have a winning system, or they are in a losing mode. I ask all of you this: Is there any trader, even most of the undisciplined ones that if you told him: THIS IS FOR ANY MAJOR FOREX PAIRS WITH A SPREAD UNDER 3.5 PIPS 1-Take a 60 min chart and buy every time the candle closes thru the 8sma but there has to be candle on both sides of the sma line.Your stop is the low of the previous candle before entry. 2-Take profit when a bar/candle closes back under the 8sma. Once you have 3 candles or more of profit, move stop loss to break even. Same but in reverse for shorting! Now is there anyone who would need a coach, more discipline, more sleep, fix the sysyem, tweak it, make it better if you knew that every week you could make 50-60 pips per week, per pair. So if you are making 200 pips a month and you use 3 major pairs, thats 600 pips a month. You mean you would try to change that or not use it to the letter eventually. Im sure after getting out too early and missing that home run just once or twice, three times at most, you wouldnt need any more discipline articles or coachinbg or books. Every one agree? Now Im not saying that this system will do that, its just an example. I will say I would bet money if this system is profitable after a month, its profitable every month! Why? Its simple!!!

I not only agree with you 100%, but if you notice in all of the Market wizard traders who made millions, I dont recall one being a scalper. Maybe getting in and out on news or a special reason or event, but can one person on this board show me a scalper who made a fortune? Tell you what, show me a scalper, in stocks or futures who can even make 50k a year or more. In Forex its almost impossible due to the spread...which by the way Im making a prediction and you can say you heard it here from me first. I dint just come up with this today...or last month. Due to the fact that more and more Forex traders are seeing with their own eyes and wallets that they cant win scalping, the way that in equities we went from a fractionaL SYSTEM TO A POINT BASIS SYSTEM OF SPREADS, i PREDICT THE WHOLE FOREX INDUSTRY WILL TRY TO WOO SOME OF THE SCALPERS BACK,AND EVEN AWAY FROM EQUITIES BY HAVING NO SPREAD ON MAJOR PAIRS BE MORE THAN 1 PIP! wATCH, IT WILL HAPPEN WITHIN 3 YEARS. There may be requirements to get that spread such as 20 trades a day or more but it will be offered. I also suspect they may start letting us the retail trader buy in between the spread...the way it is supposed to be!!!!!

Trader, Does anyone have any documentation of winning consistantly on just one time frame!? I am going to make a large wager that small time frame guys 2-15m charts are getting killed in forex. In fact im using a professional harmonic trading program im losing money with because its using plays mostly on the 15-30-60 min time frame. the system i have using daily charts is doing fine. So lets change the question a bit: what is anyone using thats doing well consistantly on any time frame? I bet guys using weeklys are not complaining at all! thsi is the time to be swing and position trading.day traders both trend and non trend are both getting reamed. Am I right,boys?

Only those over age 45 or 50 could understand the wisdom. You see, when you lose in sim, you are losing "time" which is a far, far greater commodity than money. (Unless you are blowing up huge accounts.) When I suffer a loss in a live account it means I still have the confidence I am in a winning system or I would not be in live mode! When you are still young and foolish(as 95% of us are) you put money and winning always first. So you wind up the sucker. You wind up giving away many years of your time to get someone else's money. The wise man is happy to give a lot of his money with no guarantees, so he will have so many more years to know how to earn,enjoy and accumulate more of it over his life time. Didnt Uncle Walter teach you the old saw, when 2 men meet, and one has a lot of money and one has a lot of time, the younger man winds up with the older mans amount of time, and the older man winds up with the others money! When you are 50, most of us would gladly empty our bank account to be 21 again. But no one who is 21 and poor would take the wealthy mans account and be 50 years old. This is just the warm-up,son. It gets a lot, lot more painful as you head towards 60. Spirituality is not for everyone.

I have traded both Forex and stocks in both sim mode and a real account. For me, there is no difference. If anything, it is slightly harder to keep my self control in a sim acct because I can always rationalize that if I just triple up for this one play, I can get even for the week and if not, it's only sim anyway. Also paper trading losses make me more upset than real losses because I cant trade for real until I am out of losses in sim. Also the nonsense I hear about slippage and bad executions in real compared to sim, almost never, I mean never happen to me. I use FXCM as my Forex Broker and I get faster executions in both sim and real than with any broker I've dealt with in stocks. Besides.......when you use a strategy that allows you to place stop entry orders only,and take profits at a limit, you can take your time, not get stressed, suffer little or no slippage and enjoy yourself more than if you do everything manually. In fact, one of my final lessons in becoming a winning day or even swing trader has been, if you can use a method that allows you to set it and forget it, you will have less stress and less regrets than any system where you manually just buy with a mouse click! That lesson was worth a fortune for me. I should start a trade room based just on that method of entry/exit and I would bet I could make 33% of my students profitable.

I agree 100% neg. I just want patterns that are the easiest to identify. Isnt that what ultimately we all want? So if I am a gold and forex trader and you and some other guys start buzzing about how the ES IS NOW GIVING BACK ALL THE GAINS ON A GAP UP 85% of the time for the last month and if that happens then another thing happens 15 min before the close, you bet I will become very very interested in ES. In fact in hindsight, with this 3 yr bull run, Id love to backtest how a trader would have made put fading every gap down on the ES for last 3 yrs. Someone actually told me that except for mon and friday, it usually works. This comes from a website called masterthegap where all this guy does is play gaps on the ES. You might want to check it out. I think his basic newsletter is free.

Absolutely. The ES is good to start out with and get comfortable trading futures. And yes,yes,yes about oil. I cant even do it now. It makes me too stressed. Gold and silver are slower than oil but faster than Forex. I like that mix. Do you use Fibonnacci or Harmonic patterns in making trading decisions? What one thing is the biggest factor in your trading decision?

Glass, with all due respect I think that is what is brainwashing a lot of people who are never going to be winning traders to keep sticking around, year after losing year. It gets to a point where the only, and I repeat ONLY thing that matters is that your account size increases every month, or even every week. Do you know how many traders open up demo accts on MT4 platforms that the FX brokerages give away like candy, and paper trade month after month, year after year,follow their rules and never make a dime. I know Richard Dennis is Mr Supertrader and I have no great track record to speak of, but if he ever told that to me, Id give him 5 reasons why its crap. He might "think" that's the most important thing.....IF.....you already have a tested system back and forward tested by yourself, programmers and an army of employees. But what about the rest of us. Sorry guys, if reading Market Wizards would make you rich, There would never have been any need for any more books after that. As we all know every "pro" with a name, and many without one all for a mere $59.95 for their way overpriced book are going to teach us how to make money. NOT! Oh and if you want the weekend seminar so you can have the pro smile and reassure you while you are filling his pockets so he doesnt have to trade, that can be arranged too. BTW,....not about Richard Dennis, but always suspect anyone, I mean anyone who is spending a lot of time giving seminars and traveling all over. It shows definitively that speaking for that guy is more profitable than trading. Period! New guys: Dont fall for the" I love to help new traders succeed" pitch. I would have a chat room if I was a pro trader, this way I can trade my own stuff too. But do I want to be catching airplanes and taking off my shoes and belt every 2 days rather than sitting in my comfy house? NO! People always follow the money. Try to follow the guy who is hard to get a hold of, not someone who is available to you anytime "if: you buy his course. I almost paid 5k to a wonderful man on I think it was :daytradingcourse.com who claimed that for 5k he would not only set my computer up remotely but either let me come to his home or teach me all day on video from the comfort of mine and the sample video he showed me was very impressive. He uses no indicators! Then I asked myself, Vince, if you could trade and win every single day, would you stop trading to teach a stranger on a computer and lose a week of trade time for 5k? Answer was..."HELL NO!" 5K TIMES 50 IS $250,000. That tells us his method will never make more than that in a year. And he is supposedly the oldest daytrading teacher on the Internet. What will the rest of us make? So I never gave him my money and thats the closest I ever came. Am I still curious? You bet! But not $5,000 worth. -) good luck all, Vince

After reading David's post, I forgot that I started tracking traders who post at zulutrade and others. Is there anyone who has been following anyone of these public traders for over 6 months and is making money? Its sad, but this is a new facet of trading no one had until a couple of years ago, and I dont have the time to track these guys,either. Does anyone notice that there are so many things coming out on the web to "look into" that even a focused trader can wind up spending half a day reading articles and checking out new websites that seem important? I think the amount of info in trading is zooming out of control and a guy who is focused today may be redoing his whole trading system by next year as things change so rapidly. After all, a year ago some of us never even heard of HFT's. It took some of us another year to realize....."who cares?" Anyway, I dont trust completely the stats that are supposedly 3rd party time stamped on those sights so doing your own tracking is the only way and how can you do that when you might be asleep when the guy takes a trade?

Hi, Excellent summary for a newbie trader to consider. Im trading almost 15 years but only about 3 could be considered real trading, the rest was simply adding to a position I was going to hold for a long time and holding it for the day if I saw it was overextended or saw a doji after 5 increasing size bars in a row. Just simple workable stuff. The sad part was when I decided I cant do it part time anymore, I was on unemployment and decided to let it run out and just keep learning and start trading as soon as I could trade 3 months in a row profitably. I think that is the minimum any new trader should do before going live.Sadly I joined the Oliver Velez prop trading room where they teach you to daytrade off a 2 and 5 min chart individual stocks and supposedly give you huge leverage to trade with only like 10 cent commissions. We all believed it because Oliver was a best selling author. The company went out of business 1 year later and thank God I learned a little something before he went under. As far as your goal of making $5000 a day on a 100k account, I think you would have some of the guys in Market wizards calling you up if you could do that. I would say maybe....only maybe...the best traders in the world can get that kind of return.I'd be stunned if you did that per week! I would say a more realistic return,especially at the beginning years of your "pro career" would be $500 a day. And think weekly. Thats $2500 a week x 50 is 125k a year! Thats more than doubling your money every year. If you wouldn't be happy with that, I think you are going to overtrade and make some big mistakes and end up making nothing. Just my opinion from watching 500+, other traders in a chat room with me trade alongside for a year. I also am wondering why you would pick the ES contract as your only contract to make money. It is the one place to find the most pros; banks, Who even knows if the Fed(Plunge protection team) or what others are in that instrument. It doesnt move that much which I s why I think all the small guys get eaten alive in there because only guys who can put on 10 contracts or more at a time can make the kind of money you talk about. Why not crude oil or Metals? Will your system work on all markets? Also what time frame may I ask are you trading on and how many trades per day or week do you take? best of luck. Vince

No, I dont think they deserve each other, but there is no enjoying the fruits of your labor if you are constantly wondering when your system is going to fall apart either. This makes you stay up all night creating back up systems for when the shoe drops. Then the enjoyment of trading slowly goes away as you start to feel like a hamster on a wheel never able to rest. I wonder how many of the guys in Market Wizards had guys doing that "For" them or at least with them. I mean notice in this 3 year bull market , how many more vendors appeared out of nowhere. It means they had winning systems and suddenly they stopped working because too many of them are way too elaborate to have just been created as scams. IMHO as a swing trader for over 14 years and a day trader for a few, Paul Lange is one of the few that has survived. Yet even he wont go out on his own, he likes that monthly check from Pristine as his backup. You think he wants his kids college education depending on his ability to stay constant with its ever changing behaviors. The fact that Paul never started his own small fund or private pool says a lot. And he is about the best out there. What do the rest of us do? BTW.....I know from being in Pauls room, exactly what he advises traders to do. I know all the steps he made us write down. But, I also find there is an adverse corrolation to studying your charts "past a certain point" to starting to go in reverse and second guess yourself, especially after youve lost a few days in a row. Many of Pauls students use scanners and its just my opinion that luck plays a part in simply when you lift your head up to glance at the scanner to see what stock is in play. I was on the verge of putting 1/2 my life savings into an acct in fact drom what I learned just in Pauls books and tips, let alone the room when suddenly family tragedies occured for several months, and when I got back into trading after a year break, I lost something I still to this day cant get back. BTW.....Im not ashamed to say I am first going to read Pauls article now, because after over a year studying with him, Im pretty sure I know what he will say.(smile) Vince

What you say has merit Jeff. But for guys like me who spend 2 years following a "successful: make that 2 successful traders/moderators in a trading room trying to get what they are doing, and then find that what they are doing doesnt have a positive expectancy anymore, you will either over trade to find out what the heck went wrong, or.....quit and just paper trade till you find out how to make a winning system again. I did both and sometimes that winning system can take years to come up with again. You know so many people talk about what kind of money you need to have as a starting bankroll in trading. No one talks about the bigger expense........the money you need to survive and pay your bills until you become a winner(at least on paper.) Now what I say should scare some guys but, when I started daytrading 5 years ago, I was on my way to be able to retire at 55. Now Im 53 and Im in worse shape now. Not from losing money, but from not trading and HAVING the discipline to paper trade. Well, paper trading doesn't pay the rent! Lately I've seen for the first time several articles all over the web with this title: Is every system destined to fail? I am now wondering that myself. Lets think, if in the bull run we have had these last 3 years which may not come again in another 15 years, if you cant make a living just being long stocks in today's bullish trend, maybe you never will. Sorry, reality sometimes hurts. Yet for me as a day trader the volatility we had in the 2003-2008 era was much better for me even though it wreaked havoc for most peoples accounts. Makes me think a republican in the white house is better for traders. Now I have people like my sister who dont even know what an ETF is, that are making a fortune in her 401k mutual funds and think buy and hold must be the magic way, while I sit on the sidelines paper trading. Its really frustrating. Anyone else going thru this? BTW....for swing traders who hold 2 days to 6 months, this market is like taking candy from a baby. Sadly, I switched from equities to Forex to take a break in the last year, and we all know forex has slowed to a crawl for day traders these last 2 months. I will also say this...the best and brightest traders from Market Wizards fame, 70% of them could not make a living in todays equity climate. It was a different world in the 90's. The markets were cycling differently. Anyone agree?

Dun, I went to watch the You Tube video on it and I posted this question: Im very interested in this. But why whenever I pay for a neural network software that lets me tweak both the annual return and winning percentage on daily bars only do I wind up with plenty of stocks that have over 100% annual return in 2yrs of back testing, and cant even come close to break even in forward testing or present time real trading? Does this mean that every technical system must at some point crumble and lose? And if so, why? How are you doing with this software? Can you answer my question, by some miracle? -)

Oh this is cool to find this thread on my first day here. Does anyone have any experience with the automated trade software called PREDIGIO? It works on both equities, Spot Forex and Futures and its completely free. Looks like a hell of a piece of software, you dont need any coding knowledge, just a connect the blocks kind of thing, yet I cant seem to get it off the ground. Coding and I don't mix well. Maybe one of you could go try it or look at the website. After all, its free. And no, I have nooooooo affiliation with them. I just think its sad that something like that that is free( so far) is not even talked about,good or bad on Google or any other board. MAYBE WE CAN GET A THREAD ON THIS FREE SOFTWARE. I'D love to participate. Their website is :Prodigiorts.com

hI, I enjoyed reading Bootstraps intro here. After 15+ yrs trading, I know of what he speak. I would like to slightly disagree on 2 points,though. #2-Dont pay for a system. I dont agree. Buying systems have taught me things I would never have gotten on my own. Things NOT to do! And just as important, things that really dont mean squat if its in the stars to be your day, dont sweat the small stuff.(And sometimes I think it's ALL small stuff) I also assume you put paying for a trading room either and there I definitely think you need the comraderie of other traders, even if, as I said....they are horrible and teach you what NOT to do. Let me give you the most important thing I learned from systems. I always thought that if you never counter trend traded, always entered the trade just as price is crossing both the 8 and 20 SMA, you cannot help but break even right there because you are trading with the big money. After all. who is moving a heavily traded stock or currency with such momentum it could not only stay above the 20sma but also propel itself above the 8 as well. For day trading I thought this was the nuts and everything else was just minor things. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! I wound up because of this system taught in a trade room by a very, very famous day trader whose initials start with on O.,learning that yes, it is the big money that swings a stock or commodity up to ride that "8 train" as he said. But what I was never taught was that there are many groups of big or smart(not always the same) money that could in 5 minutes have it marching completely back the other way. He never mentioned that part! I go on record as saying that playing stocks trading over 2m shares daily on a 2 or 5 minute chart that are trading over the 8and 20 sma on along trade, I have lost at least 75% of my trades!!! 5 years ago I would say its impossible. I also learned that while moving average "based" systems might have made the Turtles and other past commodity traders rich, I have never done anything but lose money when my primary rule is based on moving averages!!! NO book ,and maybe not even experience would have given me that in just 6 months. However.... don't pay a lot of money for any system. Thats always true! Anything more than $1000 out of pocket in one crack is a red flag IMHO. #8-I put in 18 hours a day and 12 on weekends. I too thought that quitting my regular job and living on savings and just paper trading and studying books and systems and Internet articles day and night would allow me to get in SKILL in18 months where most traders take 7 or 8 years to get. Wrong! I found that getting up at 8:30am to watch the market trade until 4, then studying my trades until 5, and then if I couldnt fall asleep would start following Spot Forex at 1am or earlier was preventing my body fromk ever naturally winding down. I would up on high doses of sleep medication that only now, years later can I even go to a normal dose to fall asleep by an "earlybird" 1am!!!! Sometimes I would trade Forex right thru till Market open at 9:30. I dont think that is healthy physically or psychologically for 98% of people. I lost all my interest in working out and walking and now at age 51, I lost all the muscle I spent 20 years accumulating and I cannot get it back. My new motto concerning trading: GIVE TIME....TIME." Yet bootstraps you might be in that 2%, Im just saying we must learn to respect our bodys needs. I'd like to have a dollar for every tradere counted in the 95% who lose, quit not because of going broke, but because they lost something far more valuable...their energy and their health! That said, I think Bootstraps makes a lot of sense,but as even he says...take everything with a grain of salt. Oh, about systems...if you are attracted to a system, dont pay anything more than $1000 to "taste it. And never believe a money back guarantee. Its so easy to stall you and 5000 others off and just go out of business and walk away with millions. Funny but I learned the most in rooms I paid $125 a month to be in. No fees or anything else. And if you are attracted to a system...ask yourself what it is about it that tickles you, and can you get the strategy cheaper by just buying a book. For example if you want to make a living being a candlestick expert, why give someone thousands of dollars when there are many ways to learn candlesticks for the price of a couple of books. And speaking of BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............... No I do not think Nissans work, and Oliver Velez and Gann and Robert Prechter can ever make you a winning trader no matter how much they charge for their rediculously overpriced books.(FInd me one guy who ever even said they make a living at any market just from learning from any one of those guys. Just one. You wont! And I learned thru trade rooms that my fascination with Elliot Waves better stay that....a fascination because not one room moderator in 10 years of room hopping could ever hold a room together based on Elliot Waves. Sorry guys, but my humble opinion is that as a main strategy, used as a stand alone, its crap. But as an aide,a scan, or a tactic to help you....sure, why not. Ok, I did my rambling. I am happy to be here with a bunch of people that seem a cut above the average room in class and manners. Anyone who would like to chat, just PM me. I hope to learn from and meet many more like Bootstrap here in the future. This is my first day here!!!! Cold beers in a frosted mug on me, all around! Cheers!

I have been taking free trials in chat rooms and with vendors software for almost 15 yrs. All I can say is, if you ever have to lay out more than $1000 at one time.....run! I can tell you who dollar for dollar gives you the best trading education in a chat room anywhere in the USA. But you have to be open to Fibonacci work. There are actually 2 people doing it and both know and respect each others work. Tell yuh something. I work as a coach, not a trading coach but as a coach to find out where peoples "holes" are in why they are not succeeding at the endeavors they seem to want to so badly. Like a life coach. But Im semi-retired now and dont take any new clients. But if you PM me, I will tell you who I think are the 2 best out there. And yes, Barry Burns is good value for the dollar if you are not yet advanced. Nice guy too! Felton, I think his style, legit or not is not sustainable long term because youd have to wear your nerves out taking those tiny scalping profits he settles for. I think he sells his system because its to stressful to do every day. Vince