steve46

A word about meditation I don't do it.....and yet if I want to slow down my mental processes I know how to do it (I use breathing exercises) and yes in my opinion they (the breathing exercises) help me to quiet my mental dialogue and manage the emotional response that I sometimes have, in response to stressful events.... Now I have seen all kinds of people try meditation (which I and others call "mindful") and what I have observed is that its a flip of the coin....that is to say....some folks seem inclined to think that they are in some ways better off because of the practice, while others (that I have interviewed) have simply shrugged their shoulders as if to say, well it really didn't do much (as far as they can tell)....and as I have stated previously (long ago) I use breathing exercises (that could be thought of as a form of mindful meditation) to show struggling traders how to 1) identify and characterize the impact of stress as they trade and 2) to manage and in some way reduce the effect of stress as they trade....however.....the folks I work with are adults, not "adult-children" (children in adult bodies)....is this what Rande is suggesting in his book? We don't really know...

I started out in options at Gelderman (before it was ED &F Man) spending several years on the floor and off the floor in an office. Its a different game and requires different skills... I have no idea what you mean by reliable....again it depends on your training and experience. I remember trying to "sell to close" 200 options on Doublclick and having the floor tell me that there was "nothing done"....that won't happen with equities or futures, but other than that....its very nearly the same. As with all things in the financial industry, your education and experience are critical to your success. Good luck

Hello Do you have a problem with alcohol or drugs...or are you taking medication that might impair your ability to think? Clearly one of the two is the case... If so I certainly extend my sympathies to you...and your family... Goodbye

Another example of how a bracketed market works with my display.... I also call this a "run/pause" model in deference to Don Jones over at Cisco Futures He is one of the very few public figures who have developed their own version of Market Profile....similar to mine, the primary difference is in how one defines value.... The prime difference is that I also rely on market microstructure to tell me when other professionals are likely to act....for example in all my charts I monitor the close of Euro Cash Markets....why? because at that point in time, a significant group of market participants worldwide are obliged to manage their positions...understanding how they decide whether to buy or sell is in part MY edge

So I am already getting comments and questions asking about the use of the "IB"....look this is basic stuff....basic to Market Profile....check it out (Google it) As can be seen in the chart below, there's a reason why I use it.....it provides a nice framework around which to operate....I do use additional data, but clearly there are other participants out there using it too...

I noticed that quite a few people have looked at this thread....frankly I was surprised.....I don't have a class going on at this time and right now I am simply managing a position....so I will jump in here and post a couple of ideas that might help folks who are having difficulties First in the chart below, notice that I have two time frames...on the far left 30 minutes and on the right 3 minutes.....from my point of view what matters is 1) whether you can get a sense of "trend" (on an intraday basis)....and 2) can you obtain sufficient data to make a good trade selection (point of entry)....If the charts you use aren't providing that kind of help....you need to re-think what you are doing... Referring again to the chart, I use lines (to represent the open, high & low of previous sessions and rectangles to provide visual reference to the IB (initial balance)...In the past I use a lot of lines and rectangle and I discovered that students found them confusing....now I have simplified my display and I think it provides a solid reference without too much complexity.....a good thing for new and struggling traders. on the lower pane I show aggregate volume over time...this is adapted from an indicator I used years ago....while I can't say much more about it, I am testing other publicly available indicators and I'm confident that I will find one that works just as good as this...for me the primary concept is that volume leads price...so I use volume and volatility to provide the springboard I need to confirm trade selection and to manage once I am in a trade...the advantage of using volume and volatility this way is that I never worry about leaving money on the table....I enter based on volume NOT price, and I exit based on volume NOT price....for me price is just a way to keep score of points.....at the end of the day. For those interested I show these trades as they develop on my blog (google BlogSpot)....I have already posted the URL elsewhere... For those interested in the "score" I had three (3) wins, one (1) loss Best of luck Steve PS. silly of me...I am flat, as the long hit my primary target at the top of the rectangle....so that's why I say I had three wins/one loser...I'm done...

I assume that when a person posts comments on a public forum, then the post is meant for everyone who reads it....I think most people would agree... I appreciate levity but then again I am not struggling to learn this profession...for those folks, I think the "levity" doesn't work....what they are looking desperately for, is a lifeline, something that really works.......but what the heck, I'll try your approach...and direct my comments to them.... Look at the attached chart...I posted this on another thread and right away I got some snarky comments about how "practical" and "usable" it is (basically doubters suggesting that it just won't work).....deja vu.....and my response to all is the same.....you need a couple of things to succeed in this endeavor.....a workable system and by that I mean anything that you can display on the screen that provides 1) a way to determine trend and 2) a way to identify risk and select entries....after that however you still need one more thing...that "one more thing" is something you can't buy, you can't get it on the Internet, you can't get it from your Doctor....you have to have a way to manage your emotions long enough to take the trades, and hold on to the position long enough to either take profits or get stopped out....you have to be willing to do both. That's what this business requires....by all means buy a book if you think it will help...why not....by all means hire a consultant to help you if that works for you....again why not...it comes down to whether or not you can find the tools you need to get to your goals... Good luck..

If what you want to do is to offer a rebuttal.....suggesting that I make "immature" comments and then writing a series of barely comprehensible word salad sentences might not be the best way to prove your point (whatever that is).... and on to other things....personally I have come to like Rande and his posts....clearly there are folks who will benefit from his book and should buy it....and although I don't have any experience with him professionally, I think there are folks who will benefit from his services as well...I simply don't agree with what I perceive to be his philosophical viewpoint.

There seems to be a natural human tendency to look for formulas that obviate the necessity to "think" and make independent decisions (to let the formula do it for you)..... So many threads on this site incorporate the word "successful"......and once again the same tendency comes to light.....if only someone can identify a formula that all (or many) successful traders use, then I will not have to think.....I can simply use those rules to make money.....Its called infantile or adolescent self esteem...... In fact, "success" is in part the ability to tolerate the stress and ambiguity of the market and still develop a profitable trading plan....my colleagues do it in several ways, the most popular is NOT to use Fibs, but to analyze the way a target market acts.....example Instead of blindly using fibs to trade pullbacks in an uptrending market, you characterize the average size of pullback in your market.....and vice versa for a down trending market.....if it happens to correlate with a fib number....fine....AND THEN instead of blindly throwing a contract at the market because it happens to pullback a certain distance, again my colleagues would develop a secondary non-correlated data point to help them determine whether or not the market is likely to resume its trending behavior These are behaviors that adults who are professionals use (instead of fibs) and although they require more commitment and work, the result is that they have an actionable plan that can be used with confidence......and the logic can be extended to other markets.... Good luck

A couple of comments First, I judge a person's expertise in part whether or not they can A) deliver a concept in a simple and direct fashion and B) whether that communication "cuts to the heart of the matter" If instead they use jargon, and require a lot of verbiage (and after reading it you are still uncertain as to how to use the information) then I have the impression that THEY really don't understand what they are talking about...and I can go a step further, and say that it is also likely that they don't have first hand experience from which to draw upon.... In my opinion, "mindfulness" is irrelevant.....in contrast....a sense of "adult perspective" is critical and underlies everything a successful person does in life. A person displaying childlike perspective can certainly be mindful....and like all children, that "mindfulness" becomes focused on the gratification of their immediate needs. An adult can delay that gratification, and withstand significant stress all the while maintaining a mindful consciousness....and that ability to manage emotions is key to the learning process..... In terms of actually helping a struggling trader, I can describe what an adult does to manage his/her emotions.....and after several exposures to the stresses of trading, a person motivated to learn, to make money, to change their life for the better, will seize this opportunity and make a new life for themselves.....a childlike person......will not.....and cannot. Its about that simple... Thanks

If it works for you that's what matters.....from your posts however it didn't seem that way today...otherwise I wouldn't have posted myself... Good luck

As mentioned in our previous conversation, it is difficult to obtain good (useful) practical education about trading, especially about intraday trading. The is true because those who know the markets in this very specialized way are hesitant to transmit that information freely.... As a result most folks try to obtain that information by a combination of 1) acute observation of market conditions and 2) various resources usually found at the exchanges including their archives of presentations by skilled practitioners of Market Profile, Value Analytics, and Auction Market Theory In addition to these resources you might want to think about this point....to the extent that I know certain things about the mechanics (and by mechanics I mean everything from compliance to the exchange handbook of practice) I have an advantage....that advantage may not be useful every day but the cumulative effect of having that knowledge and experience is that on a given day (like today)....I pretty much know what is going to happen and how to trade it....as compared with you watching and say "gee I'm not at all sure what to do here"... And again so everyone gets my meaning....I have no underlying interest except to put you on the right track....I think I have made that clear....You can't buy experience.....you can't buy knowledge obtained over many years of professional practice....YOU CAN however use your common sense....don't trade if you don't have the right tools or an understanding that works for the conditions you see in front of you....watch, take notes and pay your dues that way, instead of losing money....in your place I would simply go the exchange archives and starting doing your research....if and when you find presentations that seem to add value to your approach, go find that person and start networking.....ask for other references of folks who trade that way or who are experts in the approach that you favor....and there's nothing wrong with sim trading....its all about how you use that tool....I tell students to sim trade as long as they think it will help them with trade selection, entries, management of risk and exits... Best of luck to you Steve I'll offer one more comment here, maybe its the wrong thing to do but hey I'll take the chance My blog is "stevesfuturesforum on BlogSpot....and I posted my charts for today's trade there....I think they are timestamped...and if you look at what they show you...you can see a little bit of what I am doing (and thinking)....as with all these kinds of displays, I can't do it in real time and still trade effectively....there has to be a lag between my recognition of the opportunity, my action and then my preparing the chart to transmit and putting in some commentary....there is currently no other way to handle it.....there may be something of value for you there.

Amazing that you have asked this question "how" when its already been mentioned....you need to understand the mechanics of the market on a practical level....and you're not the only one to make this mistake.....so I will just say it again this last time....it is possible to trade using only technical tools (reading charts etc) however it is not desirable because you are competing against folks who are professionals (the current market is dominated by institutional and commercial participants)....on a day like today you are at a disadvantage because you don't have access to the same tools (or training) as those participants...that is (in my opinion) why you sit here talking about being uncertain about both direction and trade entry.....I've done my part....now the question is are you intelligent enough to see where you need to go to adapt to this situation.... I do wish you the best of luck however and I hope you find resources that get you to your goals...and by the way, Thales has really done a great job of help you... Steve

So I have a moment here and wanted to mention a couple of things First, no intention of offending anyone, simply want to make the facts known There is nothing wrong with what the original trader is doing. Anytime you trade you have to commit to a specific approach and in that process you make compromises, some of which you are aware of, some you may not be aware of... In this instance the original poster has elected to trade in the context of the 123 pattern.....fair enough....and it is obviously workable... On the other hand in a market dominated by professional interests there are other factors at work and they dictate how the market acts...for example, as we wait for data, markets will sometimes move in a bracketed fashion, and in this model, value is found at the bracket extremes (in this case at the boundaries of the IB).... The attached chart shows our entries today....the left most is the pre-market entry..(we did not take it), the next entry is off the open based on a simple algorithmic pattern that occurs quite frequently, and the last.....a reversal long as participants elect to mark the market up (this is an attempt to "strand" less informed particpants to generate interest and momentum).... In both cases the trader who takes the time to understand what other participants are likely to do, can obtain significant profit (10 points to the down side/equal profit to the upside on the reversal).... This example of a "bracketed market" occurs often enough that I wanted to make it known for future reference Best of luck to everyone Steve

and by all means don't take this personally yourself... --------------------------------------- English seems to be a difficult language for so many people to understand... "I don't care" is actually very simple to understand if you take a moment..... I use money (the concept) as a method to screen the adults from the "adult" children (children in adult bodies)....because I trade for a living I don't really need to charge a fee, and in fact in each of my classes, there is usually one person who never receives an invoice...in my first class there were two who did not receive a bill... For folks who feel they need to SEE what I do in person.....I show them.....since I call the shots in this life, that's what I have chosen to do....I choose NOT to show them my bank account, my P&L, my tax records, my health records, pictures of my family, pictures of my dog.....or anything else that I hold personal & private....if they don't like that, I gently encourage them to find another person to work with.... Interestingly once a person sees me trade....they never mention "money" or "proof" again... I believe any skilled professional should be willing to demonstrate their skills (once). The other side of the coin has to do with threads like those I posted here on this site....the way I figure it, if a person reads these, at some point it should be apparent that the author knows what he is talking about...Especially with MY threads where at the beginning so many of you rocket scientists seem to want to show up and tell me how "it won't work"....and "I read on Wikipedia that this isn't possible" (lol) and on and on.....unfortunately there seems to be no shortage of "experts" and emotional cripples who want to vent their anger at those few of us who actually know how to do this....my advice to all of you is point & click elsewhere... Fortunately there are a few folks who get the message...."gee, this guy doesn't really want to build a commercial business selling mentoring (how could he with just 4 students @$200/month for a couple of months?).......duh and since he's insulting everyone within earshot and telling people to find help elsewhere.....what's the catch...... In the end it comes down to basic street smarts...no one can completely eliminate risk in life....at some point you have to either "go for it", or sit on the sidelines and talk about it while other people "go for it".... Thanks

Yeah I have a better way to do that.....my students watch me 1)PREPARE TO TRADE....... 2)TAKE the trades.......3)MANAGE the trades....... and 4)EXIT the trades......and frankly the rest (standing in line at the bank for example) doesn't matter. So here's the bottom line....I do what I think I can given the time I have available to me....I try to help those few folks who think I have something that fits them.....I let someone else further up the pay scale sort the rest out.... Good luck

Yes, depends on the day, but generally speaking there are several possibilities.... What I prefer however is to obtain favorable entry in the pre-market and (on a trend day) manage that entry until I am done scaling out.....or into the closing hour, whichever comes first.... What I like about this business is that I can miss the open, come back later and still make money.... See my previous post for today's chart Good luck

Yes it does in some respect depend on your style and your skill level.... For example, I make money trading the open....I have the skills to do it.....I've watched inexperienced traders get slaughtered trying to trade the open.....what's the difference? There's not enough room on this form to complete the answer... One thing is sure.....unless you're an options trader selling time premium, you need price movement to make money....and that movement happens most often during the opening and closing hour..... The attached chart taken from my blog shows today's open....

Yes...that's one way to use those references, another is to use them at preferred times....that what we talking about in this thread.....(just trying to stay on the topic)....if you happen to see a test of the boundaries during the first or last hour, that is often a high probability entry....In fact I teach my students to look for seven (7) possible entries during the day session....all based (in part) on specific "preferred" times....

The purple boxes serve as key reference areas for trade entries....I enter trades based on tests of the boundaries of these areas....

I guess one more data point might be interesting to those who reviewed my "Simple System" over in the Emini section.... With ES volatility at 17.7% today, I simply calculated the SDs and I expect that a trending market has the potential to test the 2nd SD....Volume has the last word on this but right now we are pretty close... While so many of you (those that actually trade) are debating whether to take profits or stay put, I am simply monitoring the data and doing what it "tells me" to do... Good luck folks. PS...okay then its 12:30 and we are at about 1582 and I am pretty bored with this....so I am going to close out and go elsewhere....seeya

Okay then I would have thought that the concept was well illustrated.....best times to trade are the first hour and the last.....(sorry about repeating myself) and (once again) I use volume to tell me when to get out....and today it told me to stay put....so I am just watching and scaling out.... Here is the chart for today Good luck PS Just out of boredom, did you think something was going to change?

From my point of view, if I did my job well, then yes I am mildly pleased about that.....but I learned long ago to modulate my emotional response to this business...there are other more important things in life to be exuberant about.......this isn't one of them...just my opinion.

and here is the final chart showing the conclusion of the final (short) trade entry of the session As can be seen, the low is near 1622 and we will probably end up near to our projected target of 1625 In terms of critical times, there are two issues to understand, certainly it is important to know when to trade (when the best opportunities are likely to be available).....what new or struggling traders also should know is when to stand aside....for example, we will manage an existing position through the last hour, but we will not for any reason, keep open positions or enter trades during the final 15 minute stretch... Good luck folks

and here is an example of a profit target hit. If you look carefully, you will see that price came up to "press" our entry point, but looking down at the volume pane, it did NOT agree....therefore no reason to stop the trade....ultimately price failed at this point as the market resumed its move south...(for the moment). Looking for a test 1625 or thereabouts as projected low.